Credit: thefedoranerd.com
Beg, plead, berate, encourage, whatever you have, the electoral college to do the right thing on December 19th. I don’t honestly think there’s a chance, but hey, gotta try.
Electoral College: Make Hillary Clinton President on December 19.
This one’s tough for me. When Trump said he might not accept an election he lost, we were all unhappy. Now we’re talking about not accepting an election he won. Getting the electoral college to overturn him, even if it did, would probably be the beginning of an insurrection.
I’d rather see a popular demand for the electoral college and gerrymandering to be eliminated and -- if not -- a general tax revolt and a popular uprising for a constitutional convention. “No taxation without representation” -- hey, if I understand correctly, the popular vote didn’t count: the government is not legitimate.
Be very careful with a constitutional convention. The extreme right has been salivating over the chance to simply repeal the Constitution outright rather than having to ignore it all the time.
I can’t say I’m happy about it, but I don’t give a shit about not just giving up and not accepting this presidency being in some way similar to Trump. Fuck him. And yes, I’m very concerned about what might happen if he’s kicked out, I’m afraid it might mean another civil war, and if there is one, well, Trump has most of the overly armed nuts on his side.
What drives me to not only sign the petition, and pass it on? Trump is as qualified for high office as I am. No, strike that, I am more qualified than he is. I can think critically, I’m passably well educated, understand and know history, and have been an activist for many a decade. I’m up on current events, and I understand the global nature of things. On top of that, I do not approve of treating any persons like things.
Trump has zero qualifications for any political office, let alone the highest in this nation. To use a saying from my youth, he wouldn’t qualify for dogcatcher. Trump has proven, many times, that he’s not even capable of running a successful business. He doesn’t know what to do, he doesn’t know what to say, and he’s treating this whole thing like it’s a fucking game show. See his tweet here.
His veep is an experienced politician, more qualified than Trump, and just as bad. Maybe worse. FFS, everyone is focusing on ousting Bannon, like that will make the rest okay. It won’t. It’s Trump who has to go. Even Bannon is more qualified than Trump, having a law degree.
The repubs have taken most everything. They have the majority, not just in D.C., but across states. Do you honestly fucking think they are going to be the “checks and balances” that stop the tyrant?
I am afraid this would lead to outright civil war. Trumpites will not be content with non-violent protests. They would start shooting people.
I do not think the electorate college will vote according to popular vote for that reason.
But it is an idiotic system. I did not know how this works so I read up on it. All it takes is to have 22% popular support in the most influential states (50% plus one vote in each of them) and one could become president despite being actively voted against by the remaining 78%.
Allegedly it is supposed to protect small states against the tyrany of the majority, but in reality it leads to the small states being totally ignored in campains (they are red, so why bother -- reps take them for granted, dems know that they would have to winn all of them at huge costs to make a tiny difference), so everybody concentrates only on the swing states.
How anyone can think such system is fair and democratic and an envy of the world is beyond me.
I’m all for the elimination of the Electoral College, but while it’s still in force I have no qualms about using it to keep Trump out. Use the system to change the system.
But I think a more likely scenario is that enough Trump electors vote for some other Republican (say, Paul Ryan [barf]), and the whole mess gets thrown to the House of Representatives, who would then have to choose among the three highest electoral vote getters.
If either of those scenarios happens, and assuming we don’t get destroyed in the resulting civil war, that could well convince Republicans that it’s time for direct elections.
I’m not clear on this “civil war” thing. As I understand the numbers, the Trump supporters are about 22 -- 25% of the population. The trouble is, that other 75% or so does not normally say much so it’s hard to know who they are and what they think. But it still seems to me that they outweigh the 25% by far. Also of course there are questions about the election results. http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/can-we-count-election-results-exit-poll-discrepancies-and-voter-suppression-are just for an example.
The electoral college is a dumb thing IMO but there it is. It’s there, why not use it. Others don’t seem to hesitate to tilt the table in their own favor.
Kestrel:
Yep. And I am past liberal nice. Fuck liberal nice. It’s a nice sentiment and all, love, understanding, and bridge building, but as I said, I have no interest in building bridges to these evil fuckers. I want a somewhat sane government, at the very least.
As far as civil war, yes, it’s a possibility. I live in a solid red state. If Trump gets kicked out, the only place I’d feel safe is on a reservation, and I’d have to get to one first.
The less time Trump will be in power, the less time he has to solidify his power and enrich himself, also less time to do damage.
Yep. Trump is not a normal president.
I think people are naive when they think they can just vote him out again in 4 years. There is a more than serious chance that in 4 years he will have changed the country in a way that it is impossible to ever vote him or his kids out again.
Armed insurrection? New civil war? Honestly, guys, does anything else stand a chance of changing the broken system?
Much of your blogging content revolves around the theme how pervasively corrupted and self-perpetuating the American status quo is. With the wide-ranging dismantling of the Voting Rights Act and the subsequent massive manipulation that made this election as free and fair as that of a third-world dictatorship, do you really believe positive reform through conventional methods is possible anymore?
What we believers in liberal democracy must realize is that, sometimes, violence is the sole option to fight the subversion of civil liberties and self-determined governance. And… well, the US may have genuinely crossed the Rubicon.
applehead:
Liberals definitely have to stop being willing doormats, but wholesale violence is not a solution, ever. As you style yourself as an expert on my blog (you could spend time actually reading, rather than being a skimming asshole),* you’d be aware of when I grew up, and the tumultuous changes at the time. Violence didn’t help then, and it won’t help now.
You had best be aware that I won’t tolerate your trolling here, like PZ does. I won’t tolerate the advocacy of violence either. Any more of this shit from you, and you’re gone.
* That’s what much of my current content is about, because election, you fucking idiot.
@6. kestrel : According to this online article :
http://www.notesfromberingia.com/if-the-wind-will-not-serve-take-to-the-oars/
So -- rounding up in his favour -- 19% of the USA voted for Trump meaning 81% of the USA did NOT vote for him.
Also heard somewhere (Colbert? Samantha bee?) that Hillary Clinton had about two million more votes than Trump. I’d think and hope those facts and stats should count for something.
This item :
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-elections/us-election-hillary-clinton-more-votes-popular-vote-any-candidate-barack-obama-donald-trump-a7413596.html
Despite being frombefore thefinal count concluded supports that second point :
Might even be more than two million but would have check elsewhere.
Apologies for the multiple post here but one more site (& cite) on the numbers with a final tally :
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/11/the-114000-votes-that-cost-hillary-clinton-the-us-election/
&
Instead of the rest of us losing.
Note the inconsistency :
I’ve also seen -- but, alas, can’t now find -- a graphic on facebook showing the vastly disproportionate impact Wyoming, a state with a very small population had compared to, I think, another much larger population~wise state.
This Aussie really thinks its overdue the United States has some pretty major reforms of its political system and hopes that happens. I’d suggest abolition of the Electoral College, a preferential or run-off voting instead of the current zero-sum “first past the post” system and ending fixed terms, term limits, campaign finance and anti-gerrymandering & anti-vote suppression reforms for starters for whatever little that may be worth.