This is unbelievable. Really unbelievable. This is proof positive that he jury system used in USA is completely idiotic, anachronic and should be disposed off. “Judged by peers” is not how law should be enforced.
Guilty or not guilty verdicts should be issued by learned law sholars (judges) based on evidence and the meaning of the law, not by hoi-poloi based on how well they were swayed by the rhetoric of the lawyers and how they feel things should be.
It would not completely rid the system of biases and systemic racism, but it would reduce it at least a little.
There is no logic in this “not guilty verdict”. None at all. The jury members who voted thus are complete stupid morons and despicable people to boot.
Siobhansays
The FBI seems convinced that domestic white terrorists are a far greater threat than ISIS.
I’m sure the USA’s complete inability to prosecute them helps.
Charly, I’d say they aren’t stupid at all, just despicable bigots.
Saadsays
So this is it? Nothing can be done about this? Case closed and we’re moving on accepting the second-class citizen status of the darker Americans? I fully expected them to get slaps on the wrists for being white, but didn’t think this country was so racist as to let them walk.
Absolutely fucking ridiculous.
They commit multiple crimes as openly and blatantly as possible and the answer is “it’s okay, they’re white” and we’re just supposed to be okay with that?
Shiv, white domestic terrorists have always been a far greater threat than any outside agency. This country breeds terrorists and serial killers. Unfortunately, the FBI is incompetent, and what little teeth they have, they routinely employ in every wrong manner.
Saad, the Bundy’s still face another trial for the earlier standoff in Nevada, in 2014. Not that I’m expecting much.
They commit multiple crimes as openly and blatantly as possible and the answer is “it’s okay, they’re white” and we’re just supposed to be okay with that?
Yeah. Welcome to the Fascist States of America.
johnson catmansays
This is so disgusting! I don’t understand how any group of people could absolve those terrorists of the crimes that they committed. What the fuck people of Oregon?!
Phiknightsays
What the hell? Really? How the hell can a jury come to those conclusions? What the fuck..
Oh and I love going through the photogallery of the what the place looked like after the occupation was finished.
Kengisays
Not just white terrorists, but white Christian terrorists. A privilege double whammy.
Usually in such cases the prosecutors throw everything at the wall with dozens of charges in an effort to force a plea bargain. Looks like the prosecutors weren’t even trying in these cases.
Probably the jury went where both the prosecution and defense was leading. Just some good white Christians out for a picnic who were looking for a place to stop and pray, which the government scientists were preventing them from doing, thus violating their religious rights. (Not that evil Muslim Pagan devil prayer stuff the foreign NO DAPL violent thugs are imposing on everyone in our glorious America.)
Patricia Phillipssays
Godfuckingdammit this makes me so angry. I grew up in rural OR (coast, not the dry side) and while I know there are plenty of anti-gummint, rape-the-land racists living in OR, this verdict still surprised me. All the insane garbage the Bundy Bunch pulled was out in the open, proudly displayed by them on their own social media.
Bundy’s friends were a blight on Harney county -- they intimidated lots of citizens of Harney that did not agree with them (or at least, not with their tactics) and threatened Paiute people out there too. They threatened the county sheriff & his family!! I hate to say this, but mark my words…between the raw ugliness the Trump campaign has stirred up, and this verdict, it is only going to embolden the self appointed militia loons. I fear there will be an uptick in threats against public employees and tribal people, especially in rural areas. There will likely be more armed takeovers like Malheur -- with the potential for more violence.
The hatred, greed, and shortsightedness of these people is sickening. Back in January I chewed out some white woman on fb on a thread about the Malheur Refuge. I mentioned what a special place it was. In 1999 or 2000 I had gone to Burns to a meeting hosted by Burns Paiute. We got to go on a tour of the refuge (which is gorgeous)> We got to visit petroglyph sites, & they talked about gathering wetland plants for weaving. I’ve always hoped to go back and visit again one day (but haven’t, it is a long trip for west siders to get there!). Well, some woman pipes up on the thread with well, what use is that land to you, you cannot farm it or live on it. I blew up at here -- I can’t recall my exact words right now but I said something like I felt sorry for someone like her who had such a cold and narrow soul [mind]. Too many people think like her, that if you cannot fuck it or profit from it or both, it has no value. How sad you are incapable of comprehending the value of healthy land, water & a functioning ecosystem. I have come to think a lot of Americans like her are still drunk on Manifest Destiny, even tho’ the 19th century is long gone. They think they worship Jesus, but really they worship money. They want to ruthlessly exploit everything, no limits, rip profits from the ground. Then, when the land is dead, topsoild gone, and water poisoned and all the wildlife is gone, and the land can’t support even goats grazing, they will whine and cry for relief. Fuck the greedy bastards.
Godfuckingdammit this makes me so angry. I grew up in rural OR (coast, not the dry side) and while I know there are plenty of anti-gummint, rape-the-land racists living in OR, this verdict still surprised me.
I really wonder just how much that verdict had to do with the land belonging to the Paiute people. I’d be willing to bet it had everything to do with letting them walk. People do not want Indians getting uppity, and I’d bet this was a message to all of us -- we’re on borrowed land, and it can be taken away at any time.
I have come to think a lot of Americans like her are still drunk on Manifest Destiny, even tho’ the 19th century is long gone. They think they worship Jesus, but really they worship money. They want to ruthlessly exploit everything, no limits, rip profits from the ground. Then, when the land is dead, topsoild gone, and water poisoned and all the wildlife is gone, and the land can’t support even goats grazing, they will whine and cry for relief. Fuck the greedy bastards.
Oh yeah, good old Christian Manifest Destiny is alive and well. These people couldn’t take care of a fucking windowbox, let alone our earth, which we are dependent on.
rqsays
I saw this this morning and nearly threw my phone across the room. Does it get anymore obvious? Disgusting, in all possible ways.
Oh, and the teargassing finally made the news here. I read the comments. Surprisingly pro-Indian, but with pretty much 0 understanding of the context of the whole battle. Which reminds me, yesterday’s history-context article from ICTMN was quite the read.
Holy fucking shit. The US “justice” system has few meaningful differences to that of Iran or North Korea anymore.
AlexanderZsays
Charly #1
This is proof positive that he jury system used in USA is completely idiotic, anachronic and should be disposed off. “Judged by peers” is not how law should be enforced.
To be honest, that was well known for over a hundred years thanks to the constant not guilty verdicts during the lynching period.
The jury system itself was intentionally design as an obstruction to justice. It was a way to curtail the monarch’s power and make sure that the locals could veto the laws of the king of England. The fact that USA is a democracy and not ruled by the English queen seems lost on the US legislature.
Then again, I don’t know if USA can still be counted as a full democracy rather than the world largest ethnocracy.
— Saad #4
So this is it?
Yes. Vae victis.
Nothing can be done about this? Case closed and we’re moving on accepting the second-class citizen status of the darker Americans?
Don’t be so glum. It used to be that any white could kill any non-white person and have an open-air picnic. Now the killings are done by armed professionals. Progress!
On a less macabre note one could say that the night is always darkest before the dawn. It’s trite, but there is some hope that the current resurgence of white supremacy is the final thrashings of racism due to USA becoming ever more racially diverse.
Onamission5says
I’ve been speechless since I heard about the verdict yesterday; while I can form thoughts, when I try to make them into words it’s just whargbargle. I figured the verdict or sentencing would probably be soft, but I’d never have guessed they’d go through with imposing no consequences at all.
Now, that’s not to say that it still isn’t a function of white xian privilege. There’s probably as much of that involved in only charging them with the much harder to prove ‘conspiracy’ charges, than ‘just’ charging them with the actual crimes, which is what the prosecution did.
Imagine if you will, your home gets broken into, you are robbed of lots of your stuff by a pair of white xian thugs. The police don’t charge them with robbery, breaking and entering, or any of the actual crimes, but only with ‘conspiracy to commit’ those crimes…. That’s pretty much what happened here.
Oregon has a long, rather sordid history of this kind of shit, too. I loved living there, but anywhere but Portland, you’re pretty much in redneck whitebread country.
This is unbelievable. Really unbelievable. This is proof positive that he jury system used in USA is completely idiotic, anachronic and should be disposed off. “Judged by peers” is not how law should be enforced.
Guilty or not guilty verdicts should be issued by learned law sholars (judges) based on evidence and the meaning of the law, not by hoi-poloi based on how well they were swayed by the rhetoric of the lawyers and how they feel things should be.
It would not completely rid the system of biases and systemic racism, but it would reduce it at least a little.
There is no logic in this “not guilty verdict”. None at all. The jury members who voted thus are complete stupid morons and despicable people to boot.
The FBI seems convinced that domestic white terrorists are a far greater threat than ISIS.
I’m sure the USA’s complete inability to prosecute them helps.
Charly, I’d say they aren’t stupid at all, just despicable bigots.
So this is it? Nothing can be done about this? Case closed and we’re moving on accepting the second-class citizen status of the darker Americans? I fully expected them to get slaps on the wrists for being white, but didn’t think this country was so racist as to let them walk.
Absolutely fucking ridiculous.
They commit multiple crimes as openly and blatantly as possible and the answer is “it’s okay, they’re white” and we’re just supposed to be okay with that?
Shiv, white domestic terrorists have always been a far greater threat than any outside agency. This country breeds terrorists and serial killers. Unfortunately, the FBI is incompetent, and what little teeth they have, they routinely employ in every wrong manner.
Saad, the Bundy’s still face another trial for the earlier standoff in Nevada, in 2014. Not that I’m expecting much.
Yeah. Welcome to the Fascist States of America.
This is so disgusting! I don’t understand how any group of people could absolve those terrorists of the crimes that they committed. What the fuck people of Oregon?!
What the hell? Really? How the hell can a jury come to those conclusions? What the fuck..
Oh and I love going through the photogallery of the what the place looked like after the occupation was finished.
Not just white terrorists, but white Christian terrorists. A privilege double whammy.
Usually in such cases the prosecutors throw everything at the wall with dozens of charges in an effort to force a plea bargain. Looks like the prosecutors weren’t even trying in these cases.
Probably the jury went where both the prosecution and defense was leading. Just some good white Christians out for a picnic who were looking for a place to stop and pray, which the government scientists were preventing them from doing, thus violating their religious rights. (Not that evil Muslim Pagan devil prayer stuff the foreign NO DAPL violent thugs are imposing on everyone in our glorious America.)
Godfuckingdammit this makes me so angry. I grew up in rural OR (coast, not the dry side) and while I know there are plenty of anti-gummint, rape-the-land racists living in OR, this verdict still surprised me. All the insane garbage the Bundy Bunch pulled was out in the open, proudly displayed by them on their own social media.
Bundy’s friends were a blight on Harney county -- they intimidated lots of citizens of Harney that did not agree with them (or at least, not with their tactics) and threatened Paiute people out there too. They threatened the county sheriff & his family!! I hate to say this, but mark my words…between the raw ugliness the Trump campaign has stirred up, and this verdict, it is only going to embolden the self appointed militia loons. I fear there will be an uptick in threats against public employees and tribal people, especially in rural areas. There will likely be more armed takeovers like Malheur -- with the potential for more violence.
The hatred, greed, and shortsightedness of these people is sickening. Back in January I chewed out some white woman on fb on a thread about the Malheur Refuge. I mentioned what a special place it was. In 1999 or 2000 I had gone to Burns to a meeting hosted by Burns Paiute. We got to go on a tour of the refuge (which is gorgeous)> We got to visit petroglyph sites, & they talked about gathering wetland plants for weaving. I’ve always hoped to go back and visit again one day (but haven’t, it is a long trip for west siders to get there!). Well, some woman pipes up on the thread with well, what use is that land to you, you cannot farm it or live on it. I blew up at here -- I can’t recall my exact words right now but I said something like I felt sorry for someone like her who had such a cold and narrow soul [mind]. Too many people think like her, that if you cannot fuck it or profit from it or both, it has no value. How sad you are incapable of comprehending the value of healthy land, water & a functioning ecosystem. I have come to think a lot of Americans like her are still drunk on Manifest Destiny, even tho’ the 19th century is long gone. They think they worship Jesus, but really they worship money. They want to ruthlessly exploit everything, no limits, rip profits from the ground. Then, when the land is dead, topsoild gone, and water poisoned and all the wildlife is gone, and the land can’t support even goats grazing, they will whine and cry for relief. Fuck the greedy bastards.
Patricia:
I really wonder just how much that verdict had to do with the land belonging to the Paiute people. I’d be willing to bet it had everything to do with letting them walk. People do not want Indians getting uppity, and I’d bet this was a message to all of us -- we’re on borrowed land, and it can be taken away at any time.
Patricia:
Oh yeah, good old Christian Manifest Destiny is alive and well. These people couldn’t take care of a fucking windowbox, let alone our earth, which we are dependent on.
I saw this this morning and nearly threw my phone across the room. Does it get anymore obvious? Disgusting, in all possible ways.
Oh, and the teargassing finally made the news here. I read the comments. Surprisingly pro-Indian, but with pretty much 0 understanding of the context of the whole battle. Which reminds me, yesterday’s history-context article from ICTMN was quite the read.
Holy fucking shit. The US “justice” system has few meaningful differences to that of Iran or North Korea anymore.
Charly #1
To be honest, that was well known for over a hundred years thanks to the constant not guilty verdicts during the lynching period.
The jury system itself was intentionally design as an obstruction to justice. It was a way to curtail the monarch’s power and make sure that the locals could veto the laws of the king of England. The fact that USA is a democracy and not ruled by the English queen seems lost on the US legislature.
Then again, I don’t know if USA can still be counted as a full democracy rather than the world largest ethnocracy.
—
Saad #4
Yes. Vae victis.
Don’t be so glum. It used to be that any white could kill any non-white person and have an open-air picnic. Now the killings are done by armed professionals. Progress!
On a less macabre note one could say that the night is always darkest before the dawn. It’s trite, but there is some hope that the current resurgence of white supremacy is the final thrashings of racism due to USA becoming ever more racially diverse.
I’ve been speechless since I heard about the verdict yesterday; while I can form thoughts, when I try to make them into words it’s just whargbargle. I figured the verdict or sentencing would probably be soft, but I’d never have guessed they’d go through with imposing no consequences at all.
I was hoping this is a joke, and they were convicted… but no. This actually happened.
One more reason to call it what it is — an Injustice system.
No words of mine are enough to describe this injustice.
Late to the party, but sad to say, this isn’t on the jury, it’s on the prosecution.
http://mimesislaw.com/fault-lines/the-ammon-bundy-trial-this-is-why-we-have-juries/13865
Now, that’s not to say that it still isn’t a function of white xian privilege. There’s probably as much of that involved in only charging them with the much harder to prove ‘conspiracy’ charges, than ‘just’ charging them with the actual crimes, which is what the prosecution did.
Imagine if you will, your home gets broken into, you are robbed of lots of your stuff by a pair of white xian thugs. The police don’t charge them with robbery, breaking and entering, or any of the actual crimes, but only with ‘conspiracy to commit’ those crimes…. That’s pretty much what happened here.
Oregon has a long, rather sordid history of this kind of shit, too. I loved living there, but anywhere but Portland, you’re pretty much in redneck whitebread country.