I did. I sat through the whole thing, and I did not enjoy it.
Harris said nothing radical. No surprising policy changes; she wants to stay the course with Israel, demanding a cease fire and release of the hostages, but what I wanted to hear was that she would leverage the sale of arms to pressure Israel into ending the genocide — nope, she couldn’t say that. She did promise other positive changes, though with a $6K tax credit for new families and $50K for new business startups. Otherwise, she hammered on Trump a bit, as expected. “In this debate tonight, you’re going to hear from the same old tired playbook, a bunch of lies, grievances and name-calling,” she predicted. She was exactly right.
Trump glowered through the whole thing. He looked resentful at being there, and yeah, he kept returning to immigration. He really hates a lot of people, and wants to deport millions of people, all those dangerous criminals pouring over the border, released from prisons and insane asylums. He repeated that nonsense about immigrants hunting down your beloved pets and killing them and eating them.
Asked about abortion, he claimed that everyone, including women, Democrats, and professors, loved the fact that he killed Roe v. Wade. No, they do not. Asked if he would veto a bill that proposed a nationwide abortion ban, he dodged the question. Asked about January 6th, he said “I didn’t do it.” He’s a liar and a coward.
Here’s a 20 minute summary of the whole thing.
The highlight for me, though, was when he was asked about what he planned to replace Obamacare with, he admitted he didn’t have any specific plans, he had concepts of plans.
He’s a hate-filled sack of shit. He’s got nothing but jingo and contempt for anyone who doesn’t look like him.
Maybe that will be enough to get him elected, unfortunately.
Don’t be a Debbie Downer, PZ! Harris is terrific and would have no trouble getting elected to POTUS and flush that worthless orange manure down the toilet once and for all!
#1
Typo Correction: * Harris is terrific and will have no trouble getting elected to POTUS..”
Oh, I forgot to mention: I learned that both Seattle and Minneapolis, two cities I am strongly connected to, have been burned to the ground. Tragic.
I hope no one notices my association with two of the great disasters of the past decade.
Dear Americans.
Please elect the person who is not Trump.
Thank you.
Meanwhile over on the right;
https://www.mediaite.com/tv/foxs-brit-hume-declares-trump-had-a-bad-night-debating-harris-she-baited-him-successfully/
https://www.mediaite.com/politics/drudge-report-declares-the-end-for-trump-during-debate-with-kamala-harris/
“Harris is terrific and would have no trouble getting elected to POTUS and flush that worthless orange manure down the toilet once and for all!”
#insert “LowFlushToiletJoke.h”
A song for our time:
Oh Donnie Boy, the bells, the bells are tolling
Make no mistake, they’re tolling now for thee.
Your lies have failed, and all across the nation
Tis you, tis you must go and leave us be.
For comes November, all the land reject you will
And send you forth to dark oblivion’s void
May all the world forget you once deceived our kin
And by your name no more may any be annoyed.
And not from the right, the childless cat lady administered the coup de grâce one would hope:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/taylor-swift-kamala-harris-endorsement/
Overall Kamala did well. She should have had even more fun at his expense, in addition to pokes like crowd size, by complimenting him for his role in the warp speed pipelining of the COVID vaccines. That would have induced some intense dissonance where his narcissistic love of praise conflicts with the cultivated paranoid delusional antivax sentiments of his rabid base.
She did gut punch him on his wanting to execute the Central Park 5 to highlight his racism.
Her facial expressions and gesturing nonverbals were great when he had the mic, rambling incoherent hatred. She contrasted with her preference for lifting people up.
The moderators were too lenient with the fascist dumpster fire, letting him go on last word nonsequiturs toward the end of each question cycle instead of mercifully cutting his mic.
She should have followed up the points made about Project 2025 by pointing to the overlapping Agenda 47 as he tried to dishonestly wriggle off the hook of being a Day One Dictator.
I would prefer we completely pull the plug on aid to Israel since they have made the desert bloom all on their own and should be completely self-sufficient. That sort of assertiveness against an oppressive occupying state would not land well. She did assert the two state solution which is popular neither with Zionists nor anti-Zionists.
Republicans have an answer for Trump’s poor debate performance
Only one candidate was flinging outrageous lies at a prodigious rate.
Meanwhile, Elon Musk used Swift’s endorsement to provide another example of why there’s something really wrong with him. He offered to give Swift a child and protect her cats.
https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/celebrity-life/i-will-give-you-a-child-musk-makes-creepy-offer-to-swift-after-kamala-harris-endorsement/news-story/a3ba60424ef4f87a4b2ed3cf5fffb2a6
Rightwingers are cut endless slack, have infinite leeway and are always treated with the most-padded kids gloves, yet they always complain how unfair everyone’s to them whenever all of that doesn’t protect them from their own incompetence. I don’t know who to hold in higher contempt, them or their enablers.
Heather Cox Richardson has this summary of the debate:
Of course, Dr. Richardson is a liberal partisan so not surprising. Actually if Harris had flubbed it badly, I’m fairly sure Dr. Richardson would say so.
She concludes her newsletter on the debate by pointing out one of the big news stories from yesterday: a certain pop icon posted that she is voting for Harris-Walz, signing it “Childless Cat Lady”. She did it explicitly because there was an earlier post suggesting she would vote for Trump. Her statement was balanced: she had watched the debate, researched the candidates, and made her choice then announced it because of the false claim. She encouraged others to do their own research and make up their own minds.
In other news of guess who is voting for Harris-Walz: James Murdoch is among 88 U.S. business leaders who signed a letter endorsing Harris-Walz. That’s Rupert Murdoch’s youngest son.
Yeah, saw that last night.
There is something seriously wrong with Elon Musk, something deep and dark in what passes for his mind.
I saw a bumper sticker on a Tesla car a few days ago.
“I bought this before we knew Elon Musk was crazy.”
It has become so embarrassing to drive a Tesla that some people won’t any more.
Yeah, that kinda sounds like #QElon is offering Swift a bit of “corrective rape.”
I would prefer we pull the plug on the UN and UNRWA unless they stop supporting a proscribed terrorist group such as Hamas.
I would also prefer that incendiary talk about genocide and occupation be dropped.
Israel has one of the most powerful and heavily-armed militaries in the region and Gaza is a sitting duck. Given that, If Israel were really practicing unrestricted and indiscriminate bombing of Gaza, it’s more likely the casualty figures would now be in the hundreds of thousands rather than the 40,000 claimed by Hamas (that’s if you are gullible enough to believe a word they say)
As for occupation,, the Israelis withdrew both military personnel and civilians in 2005. All that bought them was the establishment of a terrorist state on their southern border and then a steady bombardment of missiles into their territory. Can you imagine the US putting up with Mexico firing hundreds of missiles into the border states and doing nothing? What happened on October 7th was an act of war and occupying the territory of your enemy in time of war is a legitimate and legal strategy, Should the Allies not have occupied Japan or Germany in WWII?
Hamas committed atrocities and war crimes in their incursion into Israel. Why would you want to play Hamas’s game and weaken Israel’s ability to defend itself against them? Do you approve of what they did?
Elon Musk is so sick and cuckoo that he is actively harming Tesla car sales.
Kamala worked TFG like Ali on a speed bag.
Tay Tay tagged in and threw the Kill shot.
It was glorious
If Israel were really practicing unrestricted and indiscriminate bombing of Gaza, it’s more likely the casualty figures would now be in the hundreds of thousands rather than the 40,000 claimed by Hamas (that’s if you are gullible enough to believe a word they say)
AFAIK at least, no one has credibly disputed that 40,000 figure as a good approximation of the number of people killed in Gaza. Nor is it disputed that most of those people were women, children and other noncombattants. And no, “the IDF are really powerful so they coulda killed a lot more people” does NOT serve as an excuse.
As for occupation, the Israelis withdrew both military personnel and civilians in 2005.
Leaving Gaza as an open-air prison literally under perpetual siege with no ability to independently acquire enough food, water, medical supplies, construction materials, or other necessities from outside. This “terrorist state” you speak of was one knowingly enabled, and often actively supported, by Israel.
Hamas committed atrocities and war crimes in their incursion into Israel.
Which Israel knowingly allowed and all but explicitly invited by refusing to prepare for it, even after being warned by US and Egyptian intel.
Why would you want to play Hamas’s game and weaken Israel’s ability to defend itself against them?
Israel isn’t “defending itself,” they’re actively CONQUERING and driving Palestinians off of land they want for themselves. And no, I don’t approve of such conquest or ethnic cleansing, any more than I approve of what Hamas did to give Israel more excuses to keep on doing it.
Hey, who let the genocide apologist in?
Iowa voters react to Trump & Harris debate performance
Viewing the world through orange-tinted glasses.
Israel committed atrocities and war crimes in their incursion into Gaza.
They have also more or less destroyed much of Gaza, the home for 2.1 million people.
As you don’t know, two wrongs don’t make a right.
Israel is now ahead in the body count by 33:1.
The vast majority of those dead are civilian children and women noncombatants.
This isn’t defense, it is revenge, ethnic cleansing, and genocide.
I liked the part of the debate where Kamala unleashed on Trump for bypassing the Afghanistan government to instead negotiate the withdrawal with terrorists, releasing 5000 terrorists, and Trump’s response was that Biden/Kamala are “negotiating with the wrong people”.
I’m surprised no one mentioned that Trump was defending negotiations with the group behind 9/11 during his debate on 9/10.
FFS.
Pundits Said Harris Won the Debate. Undecided Voters Weren’t So Sure.
Ah, we have a genocide fan among us!
seversky@15,There’s no doubt that Hamas committed war crimes on October 7th, and continues to do so by holding hostages. But that in no way excuses the continual slew of war crimes being committed by Israeli forces, or the clear statements of genocidal intent by senior figures such as the Israeli president, Isaac Herzog, the defence minister, Yoav Gallant, finance minister Bezalel Smotrich, and others. It is abundantly clear that Netanyahu has no intention of allowing the war to end any time soon, and he has done his best to expand it by assassinations carried out in Beirut and Tehran.
Figures put out by Hamas’s health ministry have proved accurate in previous cases. In this case, they are likely to be a considerable underestimate, given the extent of destruction of homes, hospitals, schools, tented refugee camps etc., including in areas deceitfully designated as “safe areas”. (Note that even if every Israeli claim that Hamas was present in civilian buildings is true, this would not justify in international law the huge number of civilians, including children, killed, or the extent of material destruction.) Not only will many dead be buried under rubble, in cases of such prolonged destruction and deprivation of essentials, the great majority of deaths are generally indirect, due to disease, malnutrition, inability to treat existing medical conditions, and so forth. A recent Lancet estimate is that deaths due to Israeli actions could be as much as 186,000. Israel is refusing to allow foreign journalists into Gaza, which it would surely do if its claims of trying to minimise civilian casualties were true, or if doing so would cast doubt on the figures for deaths put out by Hamas.
Gaza nevertheless remained under occupation in legal terms, since Israel had control of its borders, coastline and airspace. Israel, of course, has been in continuous violation of international law for decades – that law forbids the settlement or annexation of territory seized in war (and no, claiming God gave you the land thousands of years ago doesn’t count as justification for doing so).
Note how seversky @15 by means of JAQing off is implying heavily that I am a Hamas supporter. What Hamas did on October 7th was a monstrous atrocity and crime against humanity. That does not absolve the brutal excesses of Israel’s response. Hamas acted conveniently for Netanyahu given it took focus off his legal woes and made any future resolution of the political status of Palestinians with regard to their statehood less likely.
Also note seversky’s superficial mention of the 2005 Disengagement without getting into Sharon’s various motives like diffusing the Palestinian demography bomb and sidestepping various peace initiatives (eg- the Quartet) extant at the time. Recall Dov Weisglass and formaldehyde? Sharon also had a looming corruption scandal that parallels that of Netanyahu currently. Arguably both had/have used Gaza as a means of acting in their own self-interest. Arik left Gaza and Bibi reentered for apparently similar self-serving reasons.
Sadly Sharon could not see the outcome of the Disengagement through as his plan devolved into:
Step 1- withdraw unilaterally from Gaza via a painful process allowing nemesis Netanyahu to grandstand
Step 2- form Kadima party as a new vision of Zionist politics in face of Likud hardliners and settler protests
Step 3- stroke out not long after Step 2
Also not only is Israel occupying the West Bank (the Judea and Samaria of their eventual biblically mandated dreamland), via the religious settlers they are engaging in a creeping annexation.
As to Gaza seversky says …“occupying the territory of your enemy in time of war is a legitimate and legal strategy” meaning Israel may reoccupy Gaza then, which in seversky‘s earlier assertion is “incendiary talk about…occupation”.
Republicans’ ‘Eat Less Kittens’ billboards explain why Democrats run Arizona
Of course. Democrats would know that it should be “eat fewer kittens”
Reginald @26: “Of course. Democrats would know that it should be ‘eat fewer kittens’ ”
LOL
What Hamas did on October 7th was a monstrous atrocity and crime against humanity. That does not absolve the brutal excesses of Israel’s response.
This point bears repeating and lots of it: Hamas did what they did in the most atrocious and inexcusable way possible! They didn’t just kill unarmed Israeli civilians, they stripped them naked and paraded their bodies about in public. NONE OF THIS was done to either take or hold territory, or to liberate any Palestinians from anyone, or to serve any conceivable Palestinian interest or aspiration. It was done entirely to serve ISRAEL’s interest: to give Israel, on a silver platter, all the excuse they could possibly need to wage a war of extermination; and to bring maximum shame and discredit to the Palestinians, their cause, and all critics of Israeli policies everywhere, including America.
Cross-posted from The Infinite Thread:
https://www.wonkette.com/p/debate-spent-two-minutes-on-climate
Debate Spent Two Minutes On Climate, And One Candidate Actually Talked About Climate
Can you guess which one? Can you?!
Raging Bee, No. 28, I’m one who thinks that Israel had the moral high ground immediately after October 7 but lost it once it started engaging in what certainly looks like genocide. In my opinion, neither Israel nor Hamas is covered in glory.
That said, I think it’s important to note that Hamas does not care how many civilians Israel kills because of the horrible publicity that it’s generating for Israel. If Hamas cared about Palestinian lives, it would not be staging operations from hospitals and schools. It staged October 7 knowing what the likely Israeli reaction would be, and that it would be a public relations disaster for Israel, and decided that tens of thousands of Palestinian lives was worth the price of disgracing Israel.
And the point being lost on both Israeli partisans and Hamas partisans is that it is possible for two things to be true at the same time: October 7 was an atrocity (and by the way, when is Israel getting its hostages back?); AND ALSO that the Israeli reaction was an atrocity. The only real victims here are the civilians caught in the crossfire.
And personally, I’m inclined to cut off funding to both of them.
1) Would it be possible to not have the Palestine debate consume every other thread on the Internets? Thank you.
2) Former Reagan speechwriter on debate: Trump ‘cleaned his own clock’
@23 Reginald Selkirk:
That’s because you need to be a very special person to be undecided. I’m sorry to say this but my sister is one of those educated by also ignorant people who is undecided. She blames the media for some shit but a lot of times gets her news from social media. She claims democrats have ruined immigration and that even though Trump was wrong about the “eating cats stuff” there but there’s a video of someone eating a cat but the media doesn’t want to talk about it. And so on and on.
Speaker Johnson says Trump ‘clearly prevailed’ in debate
gormless gobshite
@32: It sounds like she’s not really “undecided”, she’s just not yet willing to openly declare her support for The Orange One.
Trump confronted by ‘Central Park Five’ member he called to be executed in debate spin room
They don’t really get into the fact that Trump never recanted nor apologized, even after the exoneration.
It’s the dreaded double-down again.
How many lies has tRUMP told now on top of the 30,000+ during the four years of his murderous ‘alleged term’ in office? (mangled, distorted, deceitful and exaggerated BS counts)
It was difficult to keep from vomiting from all the disgusting stuff issuing from his mouth during the ‘alleged’ debate.
The Central Park Five should own trUMPS ass! Oh, wait, no one would want to own his huge shitty ass!
@35 an article with better context
Trump Defends One Of The Most Blatantly Racist Moments From His Past
What would be the reaction if a country decided to bomb a stadium full of people because a handful of terrorists are suspected of being there hidden among the crowd? Would that be ok because the country is just defending itself? That’s very similar to what Israel is doing. Being a terrorist to counter other terrorists is not the solution and not a moral position.
As for the original subject, the “concepts of plan” reminds me of the Fyre festival (the original one and the new one being “planned”).
The CBC
Harris toys with Trump in U.S. presidential debate
Will the VP debate be more fun?
RFKJr weighs in
RFK Jr. suggests independent support for Trump will drop in wake of debate
I suspect there was more than one brain worm.
All Rise for the Most Insane Conspiracy Theory About Last Night’s Debate
Maybe they’ll ask JD that at the vice-presidential debate.
And for the heck of it, someone ask Lindsay Graham too. And every other Republican who fell into line after initially being honest about the Hamberdler.
Oh, I forgot to mention: I learned that both Seattle and Minneapolis, two cities I am strongly connected to, have been burned to the ground. Tragic.
Well, you didn’t expect Antifa to let you in on the big secret, didja? Plausible deniability donchaknow… :-/
seversky@15:
Who let this petaQ in here?
I’m sure you would. Such talk is very inconvenient to Nazi eugenicists such as yourself.
As, indeed, they are, perhaps close to 200,000. (The official numbers are a joke.) If things don’t change very soon it’s likely to skyrocket into the millions when starvation and disease take their toll.
That doesn’t justify genocide in response. Nothing does.
Hemidactylus@25:
Yeah … too conveniently. I get a very strong “Dooku and Palpatine” vibe off Hamas and Netanyahu. October 7 was the part where “Attack of the Clones” ended, “Revenge of the Sith” began, the Separatists kidnapped Palpatine, and Palpatine and his apprentice betrayed and murdered Dooku. We’re now at the part where Palpatine has the separatist leaders massacred at Mustafa and issues Order 66, or close to.
Reginald Selkirk@26:
Er, excuse me just one minute.
How can they have a brain trust without any brains?
Raging Bee@28:
See?
Dooku.
Bravo to the person who made the “concepts of a plan” steamed hams meme pic
Living next to New York City, I had arguments with Facebook acquaintances in Iowa who were convinced the city was a burning wreck during the BLM protests and refused to believe my own testimony and photos. They still won’t come here because they are too scared.
Excellently cogent & pertinent comment by KG @ # 24.
Thanks for the Lancet link!
@15. seversky : “Hamas committed atrocities and war crimes in their incursion into Israel. Why would you want to play Hamas’s game and weaken Israel’s ability to defend itself against them? Do you approve of what they did?”
Of course not. No body here – pretty much nobody I’;m sure – approves of Hamas and what they did.
Now, tell me have you heard about Hind Rajab and what happened to that 6 yera old child and the ambulance sent withpermission and co-ordination to rescue her? Watch this 12 minute long clip – one of many discussing this Palestinian Girl who desperately called for help before Being Murdered By Israeli Forces which also blew up the ambulance killing the people sent to save her
Do you approve of that? O
Or how about the nightmarish sadistic torture horror movie – but real list of things done by Israelis to Palestinians prisoners discussed here – Israel’s Atrocities Exposed By CNN – A Network Defined By Pro-Israeli bias discussed by Owen Jones? Do you approve of that?
Do you approve of anyone deliberately starving other people’s innocent children to death? That is what Israel is doing in Gaza too.
I’m sure you do but your preferences her e do not reflect or dictate the reality as real human beings are experiencing right now.
FYI. Genocide Watch has noted some things about this war, this genocide, which I’ve already quoted here :
https://proxy.freethought.online/pharyngula/2024/09/09/this-summary-of-israels-defenses-holds-up/#comment-2235809
Source : GenocideWatch article “Genocide is Never justifiable -Israel & Hamas in Gaza” by Grace Condon and Frankie Condon (February 4, 2024) linked in link above.
Those statistics of course are out of date as the war, the genocide, continues. How much of that do you approve of and how much of that can you dispute and with what evidence?
@ 15. seversky : “I would prefer we pull the plug on the UN and UNRWA unless they stop supporting a proscribed terrorist group such as Hamas.”
The United Nations certainly has its flaws and issues and badly needs major reforms eg removal of the veto powers, stronger enforcement ability, etc.. There’s a pretty raaonsable cas ethat it has failed in its foudational mission so far. But are they supporting Hamas? Really? Citations and strong supporting evidence needed.
Okay – and in the West Bank and East Jerusalem?
Of course not!
Fighting a war still doesn’t allow people to committ War Crimes, Crimes Against Humanity and Genocide. It doesn’t allow you to starve children to death.
Source : https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/04/09/gaza-israels-imposed-starvation-deadly-children
The Allied Occupation of Germany lasted from 5th June 1945 to 23 May 1949 so approx 4 years.(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied-occupied_Germany )
The Allied Ocupation of Japan lasted from September 2nd, 1945 to April 28th 1952 or approx 7 years.. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_Japan)
The Occupation of Palestine has lasted from 1948 until today and is on-going. Wellover seventy years and counting.
The Allies did not engage in mass scale settlement of Japanese and German land importing hundeds of thousands oftheir own people and did not rule in their parlaiments etc .. that there would never again be Japanese and German nations. Rather key differences.
[StevoR, a most excellent rebuttal]
PS. On that last point :
Source : https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/israels-knesset-votes-overwhelmingly-palestinian-statehood-netanyahu-p-rcna162466
That vote, of course, has rather huge implications.
I wonder if seversky will read this and the other comments here, think about them and respond to them?
@John Morales : Thankyou.
@ 51 John Morales
All the more impressive when aware of Stevo’s history. (As I’m sure you are.)
People can change and grow. Who knew?
One of our cohorts just read an article that mentioned that Biden’s spokesperson jean-pierre is either Haitian or of Haitian descent. WOW, how many people can the rtwinnuts insult and threaten?