This is one of those comic illustrations that are burned into the brain of every person above a certain age. “Guilty, guilty, guilty” is the phrase that immediately came to my mind yesterday.
We felt a kind of glee at this rare occasion when a rich and powerful person gets the same justice we peons routinely experience, as they should. But take a moment and exercise your empathy: how would another rich and powerful person react to the demonstration that they could be held to account for their crimes? I know, I know! Let’s ask Elon Musk!
After Trump was found guilty on 34 felony counts of falsifying business records in relation to a scheme to silence a porn star and unlawfully influence the 2016 election, Musk moaned that the history-making outcome of the trial is bad news for all Americans. “Indeed, great damage was done today to the public’s faith in the American legal system,” he wrote in a post on X.
Personally, my faith in the American legal system is far more shaken by Alito and Thomas and Roberts and the decisions of the Supreme Court that have privileged corporations, and the stock trading of our senators, and the thuggery of police officers. There have been many things in the past several decades that have eroded my confidence, and seeing a con man getting convicted in a jury trial of something he actually did isn’t one of them.
Musk’s comment came in response to another user who bemoaned that the first conviction of a former president had occurred not because of the “Iraq or Afghanistan wars, illegal CIA coups, drone striking weddings, or spying on Americans” but rather because “Trump misclassified a $130,000 payment for a porn star’s NDA.”
Musk apparently also saw Trump’s crimes as insignificant and questioned the legitimacy of the prosecution. “If a former President can be criminally convicted over such a trivial matter—motivated by politics, rather than justice—then anyone is at risk of a similar fate,” he wrote.
I agree in part that I would like to have seen more high officials convicted of their great crimes, and it’s terrible that they have such impunity. It’s pathetic that I have to accept justice for the little stuff — it’s like Al Capone getting convicted for tax evasion rather than racketeering and murder.
But wait — “little stuff”? What am I thinking? Paying $130,000 for the silence of a porn star is not a little thing to most people. That’s about two years salary, before taxes, for me! This is not a small crime to the majority of people in this country. That’s robbing your local bank money — not a gas station or 7-11 holdup, but hitting a up small business on payday. And the rich people think the sum is “trivial” or “insignificant.” Musk probably breaks into a cold sweat at the thought that he could be punished for a crime that represents the price of one cybertruck, rather than the millions and billions he has in his coffers.
My dream is to see every billionaire get their butts kick and their profits taxed heavily. A guilty verdict for Trump is just the first small step.
maybe elon should fuck off back to where he came from if he doesn’t like it here
My understanding is that isn’t even a crime. But falsifying business records to cover that up is a crime. Since it probably affected the taxes paid by the Trump Corporation, that means that you and I were made to pay for it.
And that crime was committed to affect an election, which makes it a more serious crime. If Musk, who was not born in the USA, thinks that illegally affecting democratic elections is not a big deal, then he should be clear about what he is saying.
I still fear that Trump will see no repercussions for this in the end. He’ll either get some stupidly lenient sentence like probation, or a more sympathetic appeals court will just throw everything out.
I agree with some commentators that he shouldn’t go to prison. He should get about 4000 hours of community service so that his punishment is on display for everyone to see. And not any old community service. Specific things…cleaning up graffiti. Picking up trash along highways, and the like. Not anything that he can act magnanimously glib about.
Some justice finally for Trump.
Thing is it’s comes too late when he’s already the Repug nominee. There’s more trials to come for him – but if he becomes POTUS again which is scarily still plausible he could perhaps pardon himself or make them just go away. Justice delayed, = justice denied? I really hope not..
At least some justice, a small step towards it happened today to convicted felon and legally confirmed rapist and multiple legal and electoral loser Trump.
The CRIME was politically motivated, Elon. Did you forget that part? And it wasn’t an accident, as you suggest.
Well said, PZ. It is a small victory and I’m guessing many of us expect the verdict to be overturned at some point, certainly when it gets to the Supreme Court. So Mr. Dumpling probably won’t have to pay anything or spend any time doing anything…and certainly no prison time. We can hope it costs him the election…it should cost him the nomination but the GOP is a gang of polecats just like him.
But, the fact that 12 ordinary people voted unanimously on all 34 counts to convict him is significant in my book, just as his losing the two suits to E. Jean Carroll is significant. Of course, the 12 people were New Yorkers and it’s my understanding that most New Yorkers don’t like Trump.
Reginald Selkirk @ #2 — The case was confusing but as I vaguely understand it paying the $130,000 was a chargeable crime (conspiracy I think) but it wasn’t what the state charged him with. I think the “falsifying business records” was easier to prove.
“If a former President can be criminally convicted over such a trivial matter…”.
I bet Musk has a lot of “trivial” bank records, too.
I think Musk is more likely to end up in trouble for sexual assault than financial crimes.
I hope you’ll forgive the length, but here’s Heather Cox Richardson’s take on the verdict. It’s worth a scan, mostly because she takes Republican members of Congress to task for their failure to convict him in two impeachment trials.
“If they can do it to me, they can do it to you,” Tangerine Palpatine whined!
So, I asked my Higher Authority, “What could they charge me 34 counts for?”
“Bad jokes, contrived puns, general idiocy,” she replied, “They’d throw away the key, too.”
Cold room, man, cold room.
I would say that is 180 degrees wrong. A lot of people’s faith was strengthened by the conviction of this obviously guilty and remorseless wealthy asshole. Once again, Musk (another wealthy asshole) doesn’t really have his finger on the pulse of the citizens of the US.
I could do without the calls for a pardon of Trump. He’s guilty, he’s not the least bit remorseful. He deserves all the punishment he will get and more.
yeah, musk, it’s a “trivial matter” to try to illegally sway and election.
oh, and inciting insurrection is “trivial” too.
I’ve pointed this out before.
Has Elon Musk ever said anything intelligent?
Not that I remember.
He has said a lot though, all of it dumb to one degree or another.
One must wonder about the priorities, ethics, and competence of the party officials who — not later than 2014 — knew (or at least were responsible to know) about the decades-long record of similar-and-worse misconduct by this… individual.
On second thought, there really isn’t much to wonder about, is there? “The object of power is power” — and it’s worth remembering the entire context of that bon mot.
“If a former President can be criminally convicted over such a trivial matter—motivated by politics, rather than justice—then anyone is at risk of a similar fate,” [#QElon] wrote.
What a clueless spoiled brat. Is he really not aware that out here in the real world, “anyone” is ALREADY at risk of a similar fate, and always has been?
“If a former president can be convicted, then anyone can be.”
Yea, no shit. That’s the point. No one is above the law! And given how many people ARE in fact convicted and jailed or imprisoned over legitimately trivial matters like carrying a few grams of cannabis on them, driving without insurance, or jaywalking, that it’s taken just shy of 250 years before a president has been held accountable under the law in any capacity, I’d say we’re overdue for holding people who’ve occupied the highest offices in the land to account for anything.
Hell, I’ll even throw all these whiners a bone – let’s arrest and try all the currently living former presidents for various crimes to which we have good reason to suspect they’re guilty of committing. I’m perfectly fine with putting the legal screws to all of ’em.
Some intresting interviews and analyisis here via Aussie ABC TV Donald Trump is now a convicted felon, what does that mean for the 2024 election? | Planet America – approx 45 mins length.
True.
Don’t forget money though.
Power and money are largely interchangeable.
Money buys you power and power gets you money.
34 counts. 340 counts. It doesn’t matter. This is meaningless if it doesn’t result in an immediate prison sentence and a revocation of his ability to hold office.
The American people DON’T care one way or the other. Most of them aren’t even going to vote in November. The rest have already made up their minds about Trump’s guilt or innocence and they won’t change their minds regardless of the verdict.
@ ^ raven : Golden rule – those that have the gold make the rules.
@ Akira MacKenzie : The American people are people. Human individuals NOT a monolith. Not just of one mind.
Beware overgeneralisations. Fallen into that trap mysefl and thus speaking from experience tomy eternal shame & regret here..
People are people. Individuals. Not agreeing w each other that much even when you might assume they do. The USoA is exceptionally divided and partisan now, Doubt I need to tell you that but..people so split, so very much disagreeing so.. yeah, not of one mind.
/ Cap’n Obvs? Sorry. You know this but…I still need say it? Do I? Wish I didn’t..
Because I’ve donated to political campaigns in the past, I get a stream of email from the various Democrat campaigns. I just got one from the Biden campaign saying that Trump has received $35 million in donations since the verdict. I don’t know if that’s true, or how they know that, but it wouldn’t surprise me.
Akira @ #20 — “The American people DON’T care…” is a sweeping generalization. Some do, some don’t. Sometimes people do change their mind. Sometimes it’s to decide to vote rather than say “It doesn’t matter.” I suspect this is true where you live.
Also guess we’ll see on July 11th. I hope and expect Trump’s utter, blatant Contempt of Court and lack of remorse factors havily in the sentence. Would give him the maximum possible were I the judge..
Incidentally the Judge here. Staggering restraint shown in the circumstances and given what Trump said about him and his daughter. The Judges familty FFS!
Kinda admirabe in a weird (extraordinary self restraint &d iscipline) way but would anyone but Trump have got away with it as far as he did?
Trump – so many Contempt of Court charges missed but why? Lock him up.
Pardon Trump? Yeah, right, Biden channeling Gerald Ford would be a TOTALLY winning strategy! *eyeroll
Reginald @12: David Mastio, the guy who wrote that opinion piece demanding Trump be pardoned, was a Bush Jr. appointee. ‘Nufff said. (Also, as commenters there have said, this is a STATE case, so the President can’t pardon him.)
Akira MacKenzie@20:
Sadly based on what I’ve been hearing, the former is a lot easier to accomplish than the latter, because there is absolutely nothing to say that a person can’t run for president from prison in the U.S. And in fact people have run for other offices from prison.
Of course, the latter part should have already been done, but the Supreme Court struck down Colorado’s attempt to actually apply the Constitution’s post-Civil War amendments to Donald Trump.
StevoR@25:
And technically the gag order is still in place until sentencing happens because that’s when the case is formally ‘over’, so if Trump shoots his mouth off at any point in the next six weeks he can get immediately dragged back into court for another Contempt charge, and the judge has already indicated the the next one could involve jail time. It would only take Trump running his mouth off twice more to allow the judge to have him kept incarcerated until the main sentencing is scheduled.
And naturally, the Biden administration is carefully not attempting to go after Alito and Thomas and Roberts… but they are seriously trying to threaten the ICC for finding Israel guilty of genocide, something that anybody can verify is going on by looking at the media that Israeli troops are, themselves, posting to social media. That’s the Democratic Party for you; when the chips are down, it’s not Reagan or Bush or Trump who threatens to invade the Hague, it’s Biden. Makes me proud to not support either of them, as usual for the last 20-odd years.
@#4, StevoR
But he isn’t! Not officially, anyway — he’s merely the presumptive nominee. The Republican convention, when they officially choose a nominee, will be 4 days after his sentencing is currently scheduled. There’s still time for him to withdraw (fat chance; as though Trump could ever swallow his egotism in favor of somebody else) or for Trump to finally heed the call of nature and pop his clogs.
@#7, larpar
He very definitely had SpaceX pay $250K to cover up an accusation of trying to get an employee to give him an “erotic massage” in exchange for a horse. (Seriously, Google it if you haven’t heard about this already.) So there’s that.
@#20, Akira MacKenzie
I’d lay even odds that behind the scenes, Clinton, Obama, and Biden are all trying to get him off the hook, because a large part of the reason none of them were prosecuted for various things after leaving office is that our two parties have a gentlemen’s agreement that former Presidents will not be prosecuted, just like the parties have an agreement that left-leaning bills can be blocked by merely threatening to filibuster them if introduced. Just for a start, every US military action ordered by a president, even if it isn’t called a “war” — and all of them have done so — is a violation of treaties signed after WWII, and the Constitution says that treaties have equal weight to the Constitution itself, so all three of them could end up in prison or worse if formally accused. It would be a fairly open-and-shut case, in fact. Naturally, it would be hypocritical for the Republicans to prosecute those particular crimes — but the idea of either of our parties shying away from something on the grounds of avoiding hypocrisy is, at this point, ridiculous.
@#25, StevoR
At this point, anybody rich enough would have gotten away with it. Do you remember how, back around 2000, Microsoft’s lawyers turned the antitrust trial into a farce in all kinds of ways, and the judge made the mistake of publicly reacting to it, and this was considered enough to have the obvious, well-deserved guilty verdict overturned? If the judge so much as blinks if a rich person strikes a match on the judge’s gown, it’s grounds for appeal.
I’m so surprised the Vicar is making this case be all about Democrats.
Just saw a news article about whether a convicted felon can receive a security clearance. Given that the convicted felon in question is already a security risk, difficult to say why that matters.
It’s not a crime if the State does it.
Taylor Swift is worth over $1,100,000,000.
Sam Bankman-Fried got 25 years in prison; he was a multibillionaire at the time.
Bingo!
Tell that to Sam Bankman-Fried.
John @33:
And she should be worth much less! Kick her butt (metaphorically, of course) and tax her until she’s ‘worth’ much less.
Lest you ask for a threshold, I’ll say $10,000,000. Why would any person need more?
Sure. Point being, she’s being put into the very same category as Trump or Musk.
Rich and powerful. Well, presumably powerful, I have no clue what sort of power she wields.
But that equivalence properly applies to the wealth aspect without applying to others.
Why would they need that much? :)
But seriously, the threshold is 1,000,000,000 — that is, “billionaire”.
No need to ask for one.
Interesting you set it at decamillionaire; me, I’d say anything more than one needs for a modest life is in excess of the needed amount — and I myself live a modest life. No fixed number.
FWIW, I have in the past mentioned a generous upper limit for income and wealth accumulation is 10 times the median amount from the population distribution curve.
@36 Scam Bankrupt-Fraud made the classic blunder, he started a land war in Asia. Oops no, he stole money from the rich.
@#35, John Morales:
“Doctor, you’re so predictable. Every time I complain about a symptom, you insist on talking about the cancerous tumors I have all over my body. Can’t you talk about something else? You need to come up with another explanation for why I’m getting so weak.”
@#36, John Morales:
You mean the guy who lost all the money he had in FTX when it went bankrupt, then lost the money he tried to steal via fraudulent transfer when regulators stepped in, before he was even arrested? By the time he was on trial, he wasn’t rich enough to get away with his crimes.
Well, yes. And I’m the doctor.
And those tumours are your nasty malignant false and malevolent claims about the Democratic party in the USA.
Stop making stupid bullshitty claims like that, your treatment will have began.
Yeah, I know, in your disingenous Walter Mitty manner you imagine you’re the quack diagnosing the USA’s body politic.
Also, and again because it’s so funny:
Gotta love your conspiratorial fantasies, where they are éminences grises.
I’ve noticed how you have always been at least one, usually two election cycles tardy with your fulminations and doom-mongering. Clinton! Obama! Oh, my!
(Hillary or the other Clinton? :) )
Why yes, the guy with the very same name!
Forbes: “Most of his wealth, which peaked at an estimated $26.5 billion, was tied up in ownership of about half of FTX and a share of its FTT tokens.”
In short, the billionaire. Yes, yes indeedy.
I feel like the reason all the billionaires cry foul every time one of their own sees some sort of justice is the same reason that juries let people in cars who hit cyclists off fairly easily. They can see the possibility of it happening to them someday.
I wonder how many anti-Trump posts Muskie erased while talking about “justice”.
#40 So why are you singling out Democratic presidents? What crimes have they committed after leaving office? And it’s worth pointing out Trump was found guilty of crimes he committed BEFORE being elected. That’s part of why the charges are so important; if the information got out it might have affected the outcome. I’d say Trump thanks you for your support, but he doesn’t really thank anyone for something he believes he’s entitled to receive.
“juries let people in cars who hit cyclists off fairly easily”
Sure it’s not how cyclists treat the traffic laws the same way Republicans treat the law, in other words – as if it doesn’t apply to them? Earlier this year a pedal pusher zoomed on the right side of my car, through a stop sign, and right in front of me as I was making a right turn. Any accident would have been his fault but you can bet I’d be the person charged. I’m more than 5 times more likely to see one driving on the wrong side of the road while wearing ear buds than signaling a turn. (Yes, I counted but stopped after the ratio hit 5:1.)
Its either a crime or it is not.
Who committed the crime is not a factor.
A person’s sense of how grave or trivial the crime is is not a factor.
@ The Vicar (via Freethoughtblogs) : Oh ye non-existent gods are you really pulling a Buttery emales!!!!1ty! here.. ?
HRC was nearly a decade ago and has zero to do with Trump’s crimes other than being a probable victim of them. Although who knows how much influence on the vote Trump’s affair with Stormy Daniels really would’ve had. (Likely not much but thing is people should’ve been able to know.)
The Democratic party has its flaws and isn’t ideal but its still a very long way from the hateful corruption and outright fascism of the Repugliklan party. The tewo are very much NOT equally bad with the latter being astronomically worse.
Oh & yeah, Trump might not technically be the ir nominee for POTUS but he effectively is and short of him pushing up daisies he will be. The Trump cult has long ago consumed the entire GOP.
This might seem a weird thread to ask this, but has @wzrd1 posted here recently. I just thought of that poster, fondly of course, and Googled this site by recent time and haven’t seen anything recent.
[Hemidactylus, no]
Stormy got $130K. But Trump paid Cohen $420K. $130K for Stormy, $60K for a bonus, and the whole thing grossed up for taxes. If it were simply a matter of misclassifying a payment to Stormy, the amount would have been $130K. The only reason it was more was to hide the fact it was for Stormy.
Hemidactylus @47: I’ve been wondering myself for a while, as he used to post several times a day. Hope he’s alright.
The last few times wzrd1 posted he really wasn’t well, I can’t remember what health problem he mentioned, but I remember thinking “yikes that’s not good”, so I’ve been wondering too.
Good grief. I hear how horrible cyclists are every time I mention cyclist vs. car. Believe me, I get sick of seeing otherwise perfectly capable adults riding against traffic or doing something else insane. Of course, motorists are all great. They never scream out the window at me in hopes of making me fall off my bike or roll coal on me or throw drinks or trash at me or try to run me off the road. Not all drivers, you say? Well, duh! I would estimate that 95 percent of the drivers I’ve ever come across are respectful and don’t do that kind of thing. Believe me, there are times I’ve been riding with the traffic on a fairly busy road and had another cyclist come at me from that side of the road, and I’m left trying to figure out how to safely pass without being hit or run off the road. I don’t ride with people who do that kind of thing, which is perhaps why these riders are not on my radar–in fact, I prefer riding by myself so I am the only one I have to worry about. So, not all drivers, and not all cyclists, and I am (not) terribly sorry to have slightly inconvenienced you.
@51. Jazzlet : Agreed. I hope he’s okay and miss his comments here too.
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Donald Trump is now a convicted felon, what does that mean for the 2024 election? | Planet America (Nearly 45 mins long.)
TYT – Right-Wingers Promise WAR Over Trump’s Guilty Verdict (10 mins length.) Stochastic terrorism. Bluster? Hopefully but if even a small number of people decide to act, well, we’ve already seen how nasty it was on Jan 6th.Plus thebashing of Speaker pelosi’s husband. (I’ll have to look up Tim Pool.)
Scary thing is that last black & white movie determined “tough guy” look Trump ad will be powerfully convincing to Trump’s kult members. We know how much bulldust it is but they’ve drunk the Kool aide and will believe and be inspired (yuk) by it. Trump’s always been image over reality, feelings over facts that that horribly works at an emotional level if you don’t know better.
Alverant@44,
In the UK, motorists kill a lot more people than cyclists. I guess in the USA it’s the other way round?