GUILTY ON 34 COUNTS. We have to wait until July to learn what Trump’s sentence will be, so I’m not celebrating yet — it’s more like a momentary contentedness that a good decision was reached. It’s still possible I’ll be outraged at an injustice in sentencing, but I’ll relax a little for now.
I think I’ll have some popcorn and read the reactions.
Just calibrate your expectations by keeping in mind that the charges here are for making false business records. It’s only a felony because it was done to hide the commission of another felony (election fraud) which was not charged.
So we’ll have to be content with the kind of consequences you’d expect for someone falsifying business records….which is probably parole. Still if they just give him an ankle tracker bracelet and keep him from leaving the country, I’d count it a win. Every time he moves his leg he’s reminded of his failure.
Hopefully he’ll lose the election and the real trials can start. I hear trying to overthrow the government has some severe punishments…
I don’t know whether to celebrate or gloat yet. Honestly I haven’t been following the trial closely aside from skimming headlines and reading an occasional blog opinion or article. My jaded cynicism keeps me from reading too much into the verdict. 34 felony counts sounds pretty serious but there is sentencing and perhaps an appeal.
Would be cool if they wheeled the monster into the debate with MBNA Joe wearing an orange jumpsuit and shackles. Hope Trump’s polling takes a nosedive but given his fanbase this outcome might cause many to love him more:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybristophilia
I’d love to see a boxing video….
I think that at the very least the 10 counts of criminal contempt involving recidivism after he was convicted of the first 8 should merit some time in custody. They can certainly be considered when determining the overall sentence,
On July 11, sentencing. July 15 is the Republican National Convention.
Michael Cohen got a jail sentence for his part in this crime, so it will be entertaining to see how the defense will claim that the central criminal shouldn’t get a harsher sentence than his toady.
Sadly for the felon, campaigning for high public office is not actually a compelling legal reason for why he shouldn’t be imprisoned for the crime of felony fraud in furtherance of election fraud.
The sycophants screeching is a joy to behold, fascist tears are flowing.
The saga will continue because of appeals…and that could go all the way to the US Supreme Court, and we can guess how that would end up. But at least for now we can relish the fact that a group of every day people convicted him of crimes. On top of the slander decision, it’s enjoyable to see him pilloried even a tad.
My cynical brain keeps telling me he’ll still manage to weasel out of this, but for now, I’m going to savor some actual progress.
I really hope the judge gives him a sentence just slightly on the lenient side, but all of it being jail time not fines. That way they can’t even reasonably complain* that the sentence was overly strict, but he can’t just weasel out of any actual penalty by soliciting donations from his cult.
*Of course they will complain. What have facts got to do with anything? Or reason?
Regardless of sentencing there is now a precedent that a former president can in fact be convicted of his crimes, which shouldn’t have been in dispute but still makes things that much easier for the future. Plus we get to call him convicted felon Trump.
jail sounds OK I guess but he would just try to use that to get more attention and feed his self aggrandizement. I would rather see him reduced to SSI level poverty having his whole personal net worth reduced to nothing. he is probably over his head in debt already regardless of any plusses from the media company.
His whole “Empire” is built on top of his name as brand, none of the convictions so far have done him any good at all .
Lets not forget that he will need some very good lawyers better then what he has now to win any appeals. they will not come cheap nor to work pro bono but might want to be paid up front.
cheerfulcharlie @5
More importantly than the RNC, the first debate is scheduled for June 27, IIRC. Trump will likely bail, but that in itself would earn his debate abilities some well earned scrutiny.
I also read that 31% of voters in some of the most crucial states have said that they would not vote for Trump if he were convicted, as well as 1/3 of Republicans. Even if the vast majority of them vote for him anyways, even a small percentage of them doing as they said will make his electoral success far less certain.
In any case, ketchup will be flying, and the unhinged rants will be even more unhinged, and much more frequent. We’ll be feasting on schadenfreude for awhile.
I’m very pleased.
I’m expecting the sentence to include a period of house arrest, but I think jail is unlikely and unwise.
Phew! I wa s worried he may get off and was dreading thepotential consequnces if he hadn’t been convicted here., Convicted felon and serial sexual assaulter (as Mano Singham rightly calls him) who was also – let’s not forget- found to have raped E. Jean Carroll in civil court Trump has now also been convicted – by a jury beyond reasonable doubt – not just of falsifying business records but having done so because he lied and because he tried to cover up something he feared would hurt his chances of being elected -or literally election interference. The very thing he wrongly claimed that the other side of American politics was doing.
@ Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden : I think jail is more than well deserved and also extra time and charges for Contempt of Court. Trump is lucky he wasn’t already jailed for that as anybody else would’ve been long ago had they said and acted as he did. I would love to see Trump in jail and staying there until he dies – not a life sentence for these particular charges but for the other ones involving, y’know, an attempted coup and overthrow of the USA’s Democracy. If I were Judge here, I’d give him at least a couple of years jail and then the further coming (hopefully) convictions in Trump’s other trials hoepfully mean he never leaves prison alive. Note Trump’s lackof remorse & ongoing contempt and underminingof the Justice system, the seriousness of the charges and their conseqeunces ie. potetniallywinning becuase the news of his äffair”with Stormy Daniels didn’t come out.
Why do you consider jailing Trump unwise please?
@11. unclefrogy : “jail sounds OK I guess but he would just try to use that to get more attention and feed his self aggrandizement. I would rather see him reduced to SSI level poverty having his whole personal net worth reduced to nothing.”
Why not both? Both please!
@7. robro : “The saga will continue because of appeals…and that could go all the way to the US Supreme Court, and we can guess how that would end up.”
Which is exactly why Biden and the Democratic party should’ve made fixing SCOTUS and removing the Trump traitors from the becnh a top and early priority and something that’s been done already by now. The Repugliklans hijacked the Court and that should not be allowed to stand. POTUS can be held accountable criminally, time SCOTUS Justices had that acocuntable and criminal charges too. Are theyabove the law? Above consequences? If so, time they weren’t.
PS. FWIW Aussie ABC news coverage here :
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-05-31/donald-trump-jury-verdict-hush-money-trial/103916844
@ Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden : I think jail is more than well deserved and also extra time and charges for Contempt of Court. Trump is lucky he wasn’t already jailed for that as anybody else would’ve been long ago had they said and acted as he did. I would love to see Trump in jail and staying there until he dies – not a life sentence for these particular charges but for the other ones involving, y’know, an attempted coup and overthrow of the USA’s Democracy. If I were Judge here, I’d give him at least a couple of years jail and then the further coming (hopefully) convictions in Trump’s other trials hoepfully mean he never leaves prison alive. Note Trump’s lackof remorse & ongoing contempt and underminingof the Justice system, the seriousness of the charges and their conseqeunces ie. potetniallywinning becuase the news of his äffair”with Stormy Daniels didn’t come out.
Why do you consider jailing Trump unwise please?
@11. unclefrogy : “jail sounds OK I guess but he would just try to use that to get more attention and feed his self aggrandizement. I would rather see him reduced to SSI level poverty having his whole personal net worth reduced to nothing.”
Why not both? Both please!
@7. robro : “The saga will continue because of appeals…and that could go all the way to the US Supreme Court, and we can guess how that would end up.”
Which is exactly why Biden and the Democratic party should’ve made fixing SCOTUS and removing the Trump traitors from the becnh a top and early priority and something that’s been done already by now. The Repugliklans hijacked the Court and that should not be allowed to stand. POTUS can be held accountable criminally, time SCOTUS Justices had that acocuntable and criminal charges too. Are theyabove the law? Above consequences? If so, time they weren’t.
PS. FWIW Aussie ABC news coverage here :
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-05-31/donald-trump-jury-verdict-hush-money-trial/103916844
@11. unclefrogy : “jail sounds OK I guess but he would just try to use that to get more attention and feed his self aggrandizement. I would rather see him reduced to SSI level poverty having his whole personal net worth reduced to nothing.”
Why not both? Both please!
NB. Tried posting a comment now that didn’t appear. Dunno why. Baffled.
@ Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden : I think jail is more than well deserved and also extra time and charges for Contempt of Court. Trump is lucky he wasn’t already jailed for that as anybody else would’ve been long ago had they said and acted as he did. I would love to see Trump in jail and stay there – not a life sentence for these particular charges but for the other ones involving, y’know, an attempted coup and overthrow of the USA’s Democracy. If I were Judge here, I’d give him at least a couple of years jail and then the further coming (hopefully) convictions in Trump’s other trials hoepfully mean he never leaves. Note Trump’s lackof remorse & ongoing contempt and undermining of the Justice system, the seriousness of the charges and their conseqeunces ie. potetniallywinning becuase the news of his äffair”with Stormy Daniels didn’t come out.
Why do you consider jailing Trump unwise please?
@7. robro : “The saga will continue because of appeals…and that could go all the way to the US Supreme Court, and we can guess how that would end up.”
Which is exactly why Biden and the Democratic party should’ve made fixing SCOTUS and removing the Trump traitors from the bench a top and early priority and something that’s been done already by now. The Repugliklans hijacked the Court and that should not be allowed to stand. POTUS can be held accountable criminally, Time SCOTUS Justices had that acocuntable and criminal charges too. Are they above the law? Above consequences? If so, time they weren’t.
Couldn’t resist.
@5 Guess Cheetolini shouldn’t have pissed off the judge.That date for sentencing just reeks of retaliation.
@16 The sentencing guidelines, according to ABC News, carry a max of 4 years. But the judge could get creative, sentence Cheetolini to parole or suspended sentence (if he screws up and breaks parole or the terms of suspended sentence, the full sentence would automatically be applied) or sentence him to house arrest or community service (I really hope it’s the latter; the schadenfreude from watching the shitbrindle orange turd wearing a DOC orange jumpsuit, picking up trash along the side of the road or cleaning public toilets gives me the warm fuzzies).
@12 Cheetolini could still make the debate on June 27. His sentencing isn’t until July 11 and as he is not currently under arrest, he is free to go… to the debate. I would expect Biden to hammer on him publicly about the fact that one candidate is a felon and one is not, broadcast in prime time over major US networks. But he has to show up to the sentencing–that part isn’t optional. You can reasonably expect the sentencing to be covered by most major news networks–it will likely be the lead on prime time news, unless something truly spectacular happens–and it’s right before the RNC convention. The timing is diabolical. It’s also why I think actual jail time is unlikely–for a first (first time convicted anyway) time offense, jail time is not likely to be in the sentencing guidelines. But if he’s free to go to the RNC convention, which will also be heavily covered in prime time new, he will undoubtedly have to answer questions from reporters and watch the news yammer on and hammer home his conviction and whatever sentence he is given. For peak viewing on internet, TV, print & radio news
Like I said, Cheetolini shouldn’t have pissed off the judge. Timing really is everything.
From the Grauniad:
This would of course have been equally the case in any other state, so according to Todd Blanche, no well-known person can possibly get a fair trial anywhere in the USA – because they are well-known. They should just be free to rob, rape, murder… without any possible legal consequence.
^ KG : Ïf you’re famous theylet you do it. Youcan get away with anything. Grab ém by the..” – Trump
Except it seems maybe you can’t.
Let’s hope.
Meh, he’ll get a slap on the wrist and an anemic release conditions. Which he’ll promptly violate, because no one in the American legal system seems willing to confront him over his arseholery.
Now that he’s actually been found guilty in a court of law and thus the precedent has been set, I’m hoping he has a heart attack.
As opposed to the predictable, predicted, and seen howls of rigged conspiracy fanboy nonsense, is there anywhere where an analysis of the judgment has taken place by a pro Trumper? Like where they tear the judgment apart in terms of its reasoning or internal consistency, or evidential standards or something? Just that I would like to think that there is, somewhere somehow, a voice of reason in that camp and I would love to hear from them.
The Federal Prison System menus for 2024. Bon apetite Donald Trump! Yummy, yummy prison food.
https://www.bop.gov/foia/docs/FY24_National_Menu.pdf
Does one dare hope that justice will be done? I have seen way too many rotten pols brought to court and then getting clean out, or with no more than a slap on the wrist.
Apart from that… a lenghty community service sentence would be the best I think. Real, useful work for the very first time in that dismal, pathetic life.
outis,
Well, had you hoped that Trump would be convicted on all counts, you would have been vindicated.
So there’s that.
—
Good omen, this outcome.
Good precedent, too.
Trump had no problem convincing his supporters that the 2020 elections were rigged.
He will have no problem convincing them this was a political process.
Republicans are still supporting his candidacy.
All in all, I fear that his conviction will have little real life consequences.
Hitler wrote Mein Kampf in jail.
Just sayin’
Silentbob @ 28
Yes, but that asshole could read and write. And he had Rudolph Hess there to help him with the writing.
@28 Yes, but Hitler actually wrote it. Cheetolini “wrote” Art of the Deal with ghostwriters… paid ghostwriters.
Now he has no money and no credit either. He can’t verbally string together coherent sentences these days, what makes you think he could write? (Ignore the fact that writing is actually hard work and Cadet Bone Spurs has never actually done any hard work of any kind.)
I tried to read a real time transcript of a speech of his. Once.
@28, Hitler was 36 years old when his book was published in 1925. Trump is more than twice that age. Trump doesn’t have time to capitalize on a book written while he is incarcerated (if he ever does gets thrown into the coop).
Furthermore, it’s been done. Should Trump dictate to a ghost-writer all his grievances while in jail and get a book published, the comparison would be immediately made, even if a comparison between the texts was unjustified. Trump just doing so would strip another layer of supporters from him because the comparison to Hitler, the monster of the 20th century, would not only be obvious it would be pounded by the media because if the media didn’t they would be accused of being Nazis themselves. I’m not saying all the media would make the comparison, but those which didn’t are already willing to accept being branded as Nazis.
Finally, it will be rather difficult to decipher those pages written in sharpie.
There are persistent reports that Trump is rapidly declining in cognitive abilities.
Just wait a while and it will be obvious to everyone.
Strangely enough, even if Trump became severely confused about everything, it won’t matter to the GOP and his supporters.
He will just become a literal meat puppet.
They will prop him up, do whatever they can get away with, and pretend that Trump is still the ruler.
That is what they were doing with Reagan towards the end of his second term.
cheerfulcharlie@24 that looks like good incentive for me to not end up in a US federal prison. On the other hand I’d probably lose some weight.
cheerfulcharlie@24
I couldn’t help but notice a distinct lack of ketchup in that menu.
@^ HidariMak : Well, they knew where that ketchup (tomato sauce / dead horse ) woud be going – thrown onto the walls – so yeah..
Too obvs?
Imagining Truimp’s tanty chucking now..
Looks like ketchup is a commissary item in federal prisons.
https://www.bop.gov/locations/institutions/mil/mil_commlist.pdf?v=1.0.1
Sweet Schaudenfuade*, duh, duh, da,, TYT Right-Wingers IMPLODE Over Trump’s 34-Count Guilty – minute or so over 15 mins.
.* Is the extra word Caroline really necessary here?
raven @33: Yeah, his cognitive decline is obvious- he can’t hold a thought from the start of a sentence to the end without a teleprompter, he spaces out regularly, and he forgets words and replaces them with similar-sounding nonsense words. People have been pointing out for months that these are all signs of advanced dementia.
Just like the impeachment farce, this is utterly meaningless if it doesn’t immediately result in Trump being barred from political power. He’s not going to jail for this. This doesn’t prevent him from becoming president when he wins in November. The verdict will change no one’s minds.
This was a waste of time.
A Trump version of King’s Letter From A Birmingham Jail is probably more likely than a version of Mein Kampf. He, after all, fancies himself a persecuted activist fighting for the rights of “political prisoners” (AKA Jan 6th terrorists). Of course, Trump’s version will be complete and utter shit not just in comparison to the original but just in general.
robro@7:
If the appeals court really wants to make a statement, all they have to do is actively slow-walk the appeal to Donald Trump’s detriment before setting out their decision so the Supreme Court doesn’t have jurisdiction until it’s mostly over anyway. After all, the Supreme Court has been deliberately taking up and then slow-walking cases to Trump’s benefit and delaying other trials for months now…
Don’t forget that Trump is not a first offender but has been convicted on civil charges related to serious offenses multiple times, including sexual assault, rape, other frauds and contempt.
Despite conviction, Donald Trump vows to fight on
If we lived in a normal world, such a person would admit that pursuing appeals, etc. would take up a great deal of their time and effort, and drop out of the presidential race for the good of the party and the country.
Just for the record, is being a tyrant a bad thing?
Sympathy money comes from the true believers. That is not evidence that any independent voters will be swayed in his direction.
Visibly Distressed Putin Pals Shaken Up by Trump Verdict
Vocabulary (and hence credibility) point:
Nobody gets convicted in a civil proceeding. They are found liable. Criminal proceedings result in convictions. Not liability. The standards of proof, and even the kinds of admissible evidence, are different.
Unless you want to be dismissed as ignorant, don’t cross the streams. Specifically as to this… person, he was found liable in the civil trials regarding Ms Carroll for declaring that Carroll’s accusation of an assault that met the definition of one kind of criminal sexual assault (but not, as of the time of the offense, “rape”) was a lie, and that that accusation was therefore defamatory. He was not “convicted” of anything there. He was convicted in this most recent trial of a specific offense (34 counts) that is generally part of “misprison of a felony”; this is analogous to “the Watergate coverup was worse than the failed, attempted Watergate burglary.” Which involved a sitting President, so there.
I’m really not trying to be pedantic here; I’m just trying to keep y’all from inadvertantly harming credibility. It’s sort of like the way that “irreducible complexity” arguments were seen as lunatic because they couldn’t be bothered to describe the “complexities” in the language of the field, even before anyone looked at the math itself or the substance…
Oops, typed too fast:
… that that declaration was therefore defamatory.
FAuxNews found a Democrat to speak out against the Trump convictions:
Former Gov Blagojevich: My fellow Democrats are ‘destroying the rule of law’
Blago? smirk
@48: Blago. Former Governor of Illinois… the one office for which a felony conviction is actually a job qualification (half since 1945, and most of the others just weren’t prosecuted and/or died).
in regards to the state of his health and compitance I only care that he is the republican candidate he can fall to pieces mentally and or physically any time after the convention. That way it would be too difficult for them to find another candidate, If you thought the struggle for the speaker of the house was a mess without Trump at the head all the rats would be out for each others blood, many would love to have the power
interesting indeed