Just read a short story by China Mieville called Foundation that eerily echoes this picture. Slightly different context but same idea.
johnymohicansays
you know you could always move back to europe. like no one is keeping you chained in the usa.i mean if you feel so guilty about stealing other peoples lands you could probably legally immigrate in some european country. lead by example Pz, otherwise you are just a hypocrite.
rqsays
… Because of course all land is guilt-free and unoccupied in Europe. That totally works!!!
I’m not praying or celebrating. Also, ‘johnymohican’ – as someone who is half NDN, I invite you to take your self and the nasty stench of bigotry clothing you somewhere else.
johnymohicansays
@caine
why you so mean and race baiting?im on your side. according to myers and his picture he is feasting on the remians of your ancestors. i think he should go back to england where the puritans came from if he feels so guilty. Myers is bigoted for staying in the usa, You should be supporting me in sending myers back to britain.
@rq
most of england is.
rqsays
England is the ultimate in conflict-free history, I know. Woot! No oppression there, ever, nope!
Oh yay. One of those is in the comments. “Race baiting”? Nice troll attempt. I’m surprised you didn’t ask if Caine is being triggered. That seems to be one of the go-to trolls these days.
Bye, johnymohican. Disingenuous racist assholes not welcome here.
Oh good. Apparently, johny can’t take a hint, even when in the form of a brick.
Tabby Lavalamp:
One of those is in the comments. “Race baiting”? Nice troll attempt.
Eh, in one of the Sam Harris threads, the same idiot called me a filthy racist for bringing up white flight. As trolls go, this one is in negative numbers.
Rick Pikulsays
I’m amused by his choice of nations: It’s not like Avalon Hill was able to make a game about the various groups invading England and displacing the previous inhabitants… oh wait, they did, (Britannia).
Silisays
There’s a horrible irony to how the artist has to use stereotypical Indian paraphernalia to make us realise what we’re looking at.
Paul Cowansays
This is also the plot of Poltergeist.
Excluded Laymansays
Sili: Indeed. I can see the glurge email now: “What an uplifting reminder that we should be thankful to all the people who died to give us this bounty, and the freedom to enjoy it!”
Also, what exposed skulls we can see have mysterious holes in their frontal bones…
chigau (違う)says
That house foundation doesn’t look up to code.
Audley Z Darkheartsays
Chigau:
Well, I just snorted so hard that I startled the squidlet.
trollofreasonsays
Not entirely sure what this cartoon is supposed to be saying. Or, if it says anything that’s worth considering. I mean, I’m a relatively well learn-ed American, so I’m entirely aware that genocide works when taken to its logical conclusion, and that pluralism is ultimately a failed human value in the face of what a people can accomplish when all opposing world and economic views are simply removed. /obvioustrollstatementthatissadlycorrectwhenperetratedagainstbrownpeoplewithnogeopoliticalstandingwithinanestablishedracialandindustrialworldorder
Right. Much better to let relatively well learn-ed Americans think this holiday business is all about the goodness and bounty of whiteness, ’cause all those Indians, well they’re all dead. Or drunk or something. It’s always enlightening to see a well learn-ed education in action.
Someone I knew a while back would prominently wear a t-shirt with the following:
Front: Got land?
Back: Thank an Indian!
It certainly gave me pause for thought.
darkrosesays
The cartoon is incicive and painful, no question. I didn’t know until today, though, that Thanksgiving wasn’t celebrated in the South prior to the Civil War because it was viewed as a “Yankee Abolitionist” holiday. So as I sit down to ham, greens, cornbread stuffing and candied yams with my white wife, I’ll think of my celebration as a big black middle finger to the ghosts of the people who owned my great-grandparents.
The question is: Into how many parts would we have to split up PZ to return him to Europe?
But it’s the common racist logic. That’s why they think that nothing that happened in to world after the west relinquished official ownership of their colonies can be in any way, shape or form blamed on them. Sure, we robbed Africa of millions of its most able people, cut it up, stole its resources, implemented politics that are ultimately responsible for the spread of HIV, but hey, you can’t blame us on anything that happened afterwards!
Nick Gottssays
I’m amused by his choice of nations: It’s not like Avalon Hill was able to make a game about the various groups invading England and displacing the previous inhabitants… oh wait, they did, (Britannia). – Rick Pikul@10
Probably not so much displacing, as dispossessing, brutalising, raping, and ordering about. According to Stephen Oppenheimer’s The Origin of the British, most of us Brits are mostly descended from people who arrived here as the ice retreated, or not long after. The numerically biggest wave of invaders were, according to this research, the Anglo-Saxons, and even they contributed only about 5% to modern British DNA. Of course Oppenheimer’s work may be challenged by more recent research I haven’t read.
Eh, in one of the Sam Harris threads, the same idiot called me a filthy racist for bringing up white flight. – Caine@9
Yes, a favourite racist game currently is to pretend that any reference to race makes you a racist, while claiming not to see race and to “treat everyone as an individual” makes you non-racist. Of course, they never seem to play this game with overt racists (“race realists”, or outright white supremacists) as the target.
madtom1999says
As a matter of my interest – I often hear figure for the US based population around 7million before the Europeans arrived and 70million+ for Mexico. Amazonian populations are now seen as seriously underestimated too. I can see a lot of what appears to be wishful thinking in such low figures for the US footprint.
Is it too late to get any genetic estimates for how many people disease wiped out when Europeans arrived?
I didn’t know until today, though, that Thanksgiving wasn’t celebrated in the South prior to the Civil War because it was viewed as a “Yankee Abolitionist” holiday.
Thanksgiving wasn’t the happy fun time feast for a long time. In her recent article, Sarah Sunshine Manning brings up Lincoln’s ploy:
Truth be told, this beloved lie was packaged solely for nationalistic consumption when, following the bloody Civil War, President Abraham Lincoln declared Thanksgiving a national holiday in 1863. Back then, Americans were desperately in need of unity and inspiration. Hence, the myth of the first Thanksgiving was born to inspire and unite.
Beyond the myth, and the seemingly good intentions of Abraham Lincoln (who actually despised Indians) the actual story of pilgrims and indigenous people went down much differently.
Caine, I read that link within the quote and it got really bizarre, somehow tying Lincoln in with Marxism in the USA.
Today, as we Southerners protest the conversion of the Battlefields of the National Park Service into “the beginnings of reparations for slavery,” by Marxist politicians and journalists, and challenge the erection of a statue of Lincoln in Richmond, we might ask ourselves as the Indian has done for years: Why, in the most sacred land of the Sioux, is there a monument carved into the granite mountain, a figure of Lincoln, who promised the annihilation of a band of the Sioux to please his political cronies?
To continue to idolize Lincoln is to refute history and intellectual thought and to worship at the foot of Marxist government.
I know that’s neither here nor there, but I just found it weird.
darkrosesays
Caine@26: I don’t doubt the author’s sincerity, but her facts are wrong. Lincoln made Thanksgiving a national holiday, but he certainly didn’t invent the idea or the mythos around it. And while he did make it a holiday in 1863, anyone who claims to be a social science educator who claims that 1863 was after the Civil War is completely wrong. I’m also going to give Ms. Sunshine Manning some side-eye for bolstering her point about Lincoln by linking to a site that’s dripping with Confederate apologia. The bit that Tabby Lavalamp quoted above is actually fairly mild; there’s stuff from that same piece that reads like it’s straight out of “Birth of a Nation”.
laurentweppesays
Caine, I read that link within the quote and it got really bizarre, somehow tying Lincoln in with Marxism in the USA.
Well, Marx admired Lincoln: he thought that anyone willing to kick the parasitic planter caste’s collective ass was fighting the good fight.
I agree with Marx.
Just read a short story by China Mieville called Foundation that eerily echoes this picture. Slightly different context but same idea.
you know you could always move back to europe. like no one is keeping you chained in the usa.i mean if you feel so guilty about stealing other peoples lands you could probably legally immigrate in some european country. lead by example Pz, otherwise you are just a hypocrite.
… Because of course all land is guilt-free and unoccupied in Europe. That totally works!!!
I’m not praying or celebrating. Also, ‘johnymohican’ – as someone who is half NDN, I invite you to take your self and the nasty stench of bigotry clothing you somewhere else.
@caine
why you so mean and race baiting?im on your side. according to myers and his picture he is feasting on the remians of your ancestors. i think he should go back to england where the puritans came from if he feels so guilty. Myers is bigoted for staying in the usa, You should be supporting me in sending myers back to britain.
@rq
most of england is.
England is the ultimate in conflict-free history, I know. Woot! No oppression there, ever, nope!
Bye, johnymohican. Disingenuous racist assholes not welcome here.
Oh yay. One of those is in the comments. “Race baiting”? Nice troll attempt. I’m surprised you didn’t ask if Caine is being triggered. That seems to be one of the go-to trolls these days.
PZ:
Oh good. Apparently, johny can’t take a hint, even when in the form of a brick.
Tabby Lavalamp:
Eh, in one of the Sam Harris threads, the same idiot called me a filthy racist for bringing up white flight. As trolls go, this one is in negative numbers.
I’m amused by his choice of nations: It’s not like Avalon Hill was able to make a game about the various groups invading England and displacing the previous inhabitants… oh wait, they did, (Britannia).
There’s a horrible irony to how the artist has to use stereotypical Indian paraphernalia to make us realise what we’re looking at.
This is also the plot of Poltergeist.
Sili: Indeed. I can see the glurge email now: “What an uplifting reminder that we should be thankful to all the people who died to give us this bounty, and the freedom to enjoy it!”
Also, what exposed skulls we can see have mysterious holes in their frontal bones…
That house foundation doesn’t look up to code.
Chigau:
Well, I just snorted so hard that I startled the squidlet.
Not entirely sure what this cartoon is supposed to be saying. Or, if it says anything that’s worth considering. I mean, I’m a relatively well learn-ed American, so I’m entirely aware that genocide works when taken to its logical conclusion, and that pluralism is ultimately a failed human value in the face of what a people can accomplish when all opposing world and economic views are simply removed. /obvioustrollstatementthatissadlycorrectwhenperetratedagainstbrownpeoplewithnogeopoliticalstandingwithinanestablishedracialandindustrialworldorder
troll @ 16:
Right. Much better to let relatively well learn-ed Americans think this holiday business is all about the goodness and bounty of whiteness, ’cause all those Indians, well they’re all dead. Or drunk or something. It’s always enlightening to see a well learn-ed education in action.
Lots of words about thanksgiving here: http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/
@ 14 chigau
Luckily I had finished my tea.
Someone I knew a while back would prominently wear a t-shirt with the following:
Front: Got land?
Back: Thank an Indian!
It certainly gave me pause for thought.
The cartoon is incicive and painful, no question. I didn’t know until today, though, that Thanksgiving wasn’t celebrated in the South prior to the Civil War because it was viewed as a “Yankee Abolitionist” holiday. So as I sit down to ham, greens, cornbread stuffing and candied yams with my white wife, I’ll think of my celebration as a big black middle finger to the ghosts of the people who owned my great-grandparents.
The question is: Into how many parts would we have to split up PZ to return him to Europe?
But it’s the common racist logic. That’s why they think that nothing that happened in to world after the west relinquished official ownership of their colonies can be in any way, shape or form blamed on them. Sure, we robbed Africa of millions of its most able people, cut it up, stole its resources, implemented politics that are ultimately responsible for the spread of HIV, but hey, you can’t blame us on anything that happened afterwards!
Probably not so much displacing, as dispossessing, brutalising, raping, and ordering about. According to Stephen Oppenheimer’s The Origin of the British, most of us Brits are mostly descended from people who arrived here as the ice retreated, or not long after. The numerically biggest wave of invaders were, according to this research, the Anglo-Saxons, and even they contributed only about 5% to modern British DNA. Of course Oppenheimer’s work may be challenged by more recent research I haven’t read.
Yes, a favourite racist game currently is to pretend that any reference to race makes you a racist, while claiming not to see race and to “treat everyone as an individual” makes you non-racist. Of course, they never seem to play this game with overt racists (“race realists”, or outright white supremacists) as the target.
As a matter of my interest – I often hear figure for the US based population around 7million before the Europeans arrived and 70million+ for Mexico. Amazonian populations are now seen as seriously underestimated too. I can see a lot of what appears to be wishful thinking in such low figures for the US footprint.
Is it too late to get any genetic estimates for how many people disease wiped out when Europeans arrived?
That’s where you’re wrong: you should always give thanks to Jesus
darkrose @ 21:
Thanksgiving wasn’t the happy fun time feast for a long time. In her recent article, Sarah Sunshine Manning brings up Lincoln’s ploy:
Article is here.
Caine, I read that link within the quote and it got really bizarre, somehow tying Lincoln in with Marxism in the USA.
I know that’s neither here nor there, but I just found it weird.
Caine@26: I don’t doubt the author’s sincerity, but her facts are wrong. Lincoln made Thanksgiving a national holiday, but he certainly didn’t invent the idea or the mythos around it. And while he did make it a holiday in 1863, anyone who claims to be a social science educator who claims that 1863 was after the Civil War is completely wrong. I’m also going to give Ms. Sunshine Manning some side-eye for bolstering her point about Lincoln by linking to a site that’s dripping with Confederate apologia. The bit that Tabby Lavalamp quoted above is actually fairly mild; there’s stuff from that same piece that reads like it’s straight out of “Birth of a Nation”.
Well, Marx admired Lincoln: he thought that anyone willing to kick the parasitic planter caste’s collective ass was fighting the good fight.
I agree with Marx.