Sometimes it’s hard to tell them apart. Maybe the North one is the good one?
The University of North Dakota sports teams used to be called the Fighting Sioux, but in a remarkable fit of cultural sensitivity, the state voted to change the name.
State residents voted overwhelmingly in 2012 to dump UND’s “Fighting Sioux” nickname, which had been in place since the 1930s. The NCAA considered it hostile and abusive, and it failed to get the endorsement of one of the state’s two namesake tribes. The state Legislature put a moratorium on replacing the nickname until this year.
The decision wasn’t entirely altruistic — the NCAA had told them the school would have to automatically forfeit a number of games if they didn’t fix it. But still, good on ’em — it’s progress. At least they’re one up on a certain professional sports team on the East coast which will go unnamed here, because the owner seems to be positively reveling in his racism.
They’re now looking for new names, and have asked the public to make suggestions. I quite like “Tundra Wookies”, if they can get it past George Lucas. Unfortunately, the bad Dakota has emerged in this process.
Here’s the complete list of rejected submissions (pdf). Some of them are harmless, and apparently the review committee just didn’t like them; but others are thick with frothing, rabid racism and sexism. Lots are full of angry obscenities, and some are subtler — naming the team after George Custer is a bit off, for example. There are some North Dakotans who plainly hate Indians, and the idea of being respectful of the people who were there first.
So, by default, South Dakota must be the good one?
Not so fast. There’s a vocal minority there that is pretty damned ugly, as a group of kids discovered.
On Jan. 24 of this year, 57 elementary and middle school students from American Horse School on the Pine Ridge Reservation in South Dakota traveled more than 100 miles to Rapid City, S.D., to watch a minor-league hockey game at the Rushmore Plaza Civic Center. You can imagine the excitement these students felt when they learned they would attend the big game in celebration of their academic success and outstanding school attendance. Though only a sports match, this night would signify months of hard work and commitment in the classroom and motivate each student to continue to reach his or her full potential.
Hardworking Indian kids get a reward of a field trip to a hockey game. That sounds like a positive for South Dakota. Except, unfortunately, for the existence of drunk white men in the VIP suite above them.
Justin Poor Bear, one of the parents who chaperoned the group of kids from the American Horse School in Allen, South Dakota, described the ugly incident on Facebook:
“There were 15 or more (people) inside of the suite, most of them men. [T]hey were getting drunk and around the 3rd Quarter they (started) talking crap to our kids and throwing down beer on some of them including our staff and students… (They were) telling our students to back to the rez.”
“Rez” refers to the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, which encompasses Allen, where the kids and the chaperones returned to after choosing to leave the game early to protect the group of third through eighth graders from further abuse. Poor Bear said he confronted the men before the group left, but declined to fight when given the option.
Ricardo Caté
It’s not just Baltimore, or Ferguson. It’s not just black people. Racism is everywhere.
Every Dakota has a toxic bit of bad in it, and so does Minnesota and Wisconsin and Iowa and every state.
Fucking hell. There are no words low enough for these racist arseholes.
And the only part of this post that actually surprised me was the part where they got rid of a racist “Native American as Mascot” team name, of which there are way too fucking many anyway. I think I depress myself.
Jesus fuck, I couldn’t make it past the Es.
Thumper:
It’s like that everywhere for Indians outside the rez. ND isn’t quite as vicious as SD, but racism is alive and well in the Dakotas.
The list is full of bonkers horrible things. I’m conflicted somewhat, because I did smile at the suggestion of Attorneys (so they can still chant ‘sue’). Does that make me a bad person? (Not even really joking here; I actually want to know what others think re: alluding to the old problematic roots making a new name problematic as well)
@ Caine
I am fast getting that impression. I thought USAmerican racism had moved on and Native Americans were relatively safe these days… the past few months have proven that assumption completely fucking wrong.
By the way, bit of a tangent: I know next to nothing about the vast diversity of native American cultures, and I’d like to correct that ignorance. Can anyone recommend some good reading material?
Thumper, Somebody (PBS?) did a documentary series called 500 Nations a while back and there was fat book published to go with it. I remember that it was enlightening & depressing. Also, Sherman Alexie, while he won’t tell you much about the diversity among Native American cultures, has a uniquely interesting view of contemporary Native American culture, especially around Seattle.
How about “The Fighting Mary Sues”? They could have Dagny Taggert as the mascot.
Seriously? They won’t consider “Woodchippers” as the new nickname? I imagine they’ll eventually settle on a name more culturally in line with their dominant European heritage: The Vikings or Norsemen.
How about the “Elsas” since the cold never bothered them anyway? Not to mention that picking a female mascot would cause enough heads to explode that we’d be able to hear it all the way over in Massachusetts.
(Side note to @4 ian: I grinned at the “attorneys” myself, but I also knew it wasn’t a serious suggestion.)
Reading a list of rejected names is like reading YouTube comments. Bad for the soul.
My hometown of Edmonton just announced that city hall would have “neutral” washrooms in addition to M/F, for the benefit of transgender people. The comments on that announcement were appalling (“I refuse to share a bathroom with an it” was one of the worst).
My favourite on the few pages of the list I looked at was the “Sensible Chaps”. Toodle pip!
Thanks for bringing it over here so we could be hit by it too, NitricAcid, that was very thoughtful. I’d failed to encounter any transphobic slurs today til then.
Sorry, CaitieCat.
Thumper @ 5:
These are good starting points: http://www.nativeculturelinks.com/nations.html http://www.dickshovel.com/ http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/ http://www.indianz.com/ and http://ndnnews.com/
My friend John, a University of Minnesota Gopher fan, use to derisively call them the Siouxzies, but now that they have to replace their name, he calls them the Hiouxzies (who-zies) since they haven’t decided upon a replacement. The Minnesota legislature passed a law some time ago that required high schools here to change any mascot associated with natives some time ago.
qwerty:
How cute. Your friend feminizes an oppressed group to make them even more worthy of his mighty scorn, then keeps the denigration of said oppressed group of peoples with the ‘Hiouxzies’. Perhaps you can pass on to your friend John that at least one Indian is not fucking impressed with his bigotry. His time would be better spent on attempting to become a better person.
Dakota Mountain Trolls!
I like it to, but I think it’s up to Disney now, and they are unlikely to repeat the Oregon Ducks/Donald Duck “mistake”.
Perhaps in honor of the state’s new industrial boom, they should call themselves the Fighting Frackers?
@9 daved That’s fair, it’s a joke entry. I’m just a little curious because if that were actually chosen, I would probably still find it amusing, and I was worried if that would then be problematic.
I read and commented on the first part before reading the second part, about the hockey game. If I was disgusted by the names in the PDF, I think horrified and enraged is the only way to describe myself after the second. These are kids, and some people decide they need to dump on them in order to cast themselves as “above” those children. And PZ is right, this sort of thing does happen everywhere, which makes it all the worse.
Caine
Oh, so you missed the 100+ pages of the old name, with all kinds of added racism in the explanation field?
latveriandiplomat
Fighting Frackers is indeed on the names to be considered list.
Also, I noted that a lot of suggestions (some of them problematic) appear on both lists.
There is so much sad, sick, and wrong on that list (both names and justifications/excuses/explanations).
Fortunately for my faith in humanity, there are a few worthwhile ones.
UNDaunted was one of the only serious ones that I liked, but really, I haven’t gotten to the Ts, but I assume “Tundra Wookies” really is on the list, and that’s awesome.
Even better?
The pdf froze up on me, but if I had gotten as far as the Ts, I would have loved to see “The Thagomizers!”
Thumper – I’m currently reading “Indian Voices: Listening to Native Americans” by Alison Owings, (2011), and it’s a good view of what is going on in the lives of Indians in various locations/tribes now.
I wonder if these people even realize that Dakota itself is a Sioux word as is the vast majority of other U. S. State names.
Oops! I meant the other states were Native American words, not necessarily Sioux.
Did anyone suggest, “Damn, it’s cold” as a team name
Dalillama:
I did, and glad of it, too. I feel sick enough already.
@people talking about sources of info:
One book that I really enjoyed reading was Indian Oratory.
Though it isn’t a history book, it was organized chronologically (and had mini-bios of the selected speakers, the one on Chief Joseph, IIRC, was one of the longer ones). Obviously the speeches that were recorded by white folk don’t make up a representative sample of indigenous concerns during any given historical time period, and the speeches preserved by the writings of indigenous people were fewer until after the Civil War. (The Medicine Lodge Council just after the Civil War benefited from literate members of First Nations doing just that kind of recording…though I think that there were some white folk writing down some of it as well. I’m not sure about that last part though.) So chronological organization on its own doesn’t give you a real picture of history, not even combined with the individual histories of the speakers included in the book. But the topic of indigenous/European interaction is fairly well covered and it is incredibly enlightening to read samples of speeches addressing aspects of those interactions and how the issues raised, rhetoric used, perspectives embraced, and solutions proposed all change over time.
I wish I still had that book, but I inherited it from an ex in 1993 and that copy was 20 years old (and well-read!) even then. It got further battered over the next 10 years and then I leant it to someone who never returned it. My generous assumption is that the book’s deterioration hit a critical transition and they were too embarrassed to give the book back while it was falling apart.
But whatever the reason, it seems long past time I picked up a new copy. Amazon is selling it new, so I assume it’s still in print. I don’t know anything about the author and whether the author is/was a member of a federally recognized tribe or came from a personal perspective emphasizing some indigenous ancestry. The author could be a random white guy for all I know. But the words are those of important indigenous leaders, so I can recommend the book even if it turns out that the author comes from a position very foreign to that of the speakers themselves.
Those poor kids–that must’ve been terrifying. Was there no security (he asked sarcastically)? And the humiliation of being forced to leave is the kind of thing that leaves a deep mark.
WRT the new mascot, there were actually some clever suggestions in there. I liked “the Banshees”–not only are banshees intimidating as hell, but it’s a fantastically oblique reference to the old name. Though I guess N. Dakota doesn’t have much connection to Ireland…
I also chuckled (sardonically) at the people who “innocently” suggested the Aesir, the Jotun, etc. Because there is absolutely no connection between Norse mythology and white supremacy, especially in that part of the country! Nope, perfectly innocent suggestions!
Yeah, @Doug Hudson, apparently security at the stadium is a personal responsibility of each customer rather than the stadium’s. It sounds like nobody except one of the Indian teachers even tried to stop a bunch of white men stadium customers assaulting the stadium customers who are Indian children. Do you suppose it’s true for every customer? That their only recourse if assaulted by some violet criminal in the stadium is to fight them off all by themselves?
violent criminal in the stadium, that is
From the article, the stadium is addressing what happened. Hopefully, the kids will get to go another time and have a good time. It always amazes me when people are horrible to children. I know it happens but it is still remarkable.
Just in case anyone wonders “hey, why do colleges like Florida state get to keep their tribal mascot while UND doesn’t?”, the ncaa law allows you to keep it IF you get permission of the relevant tribe (s).
Also, my favorite bit from these lists is that Abominable Snowmen is on the rejected list, but Abdominal Snowmen is still being considered. I’ve been giggling about that for days now.
I’ll give you a half-pass, considering your age and the culture in which you grew up, but “Indians” is what that incompetent, racist, enslaving, looting, mass-murderer POS Christopher Columbus called the peoples he met in the West Indies.
usernames @33,
Except for the fact that a lot of Native Americans call themselves Indians. And I don’t mean the way that African Americans will use the “n-word” among themselves, I mean official organizations like the American Indian Movement or the Seneca Nation of Indians or any one of little dozens of Indian groups.
Now, if a Native American expresses a dislike for “indian”, great, then that’s their prerogative, and people should respect that and not use it to refer to them.
But that’s simply not the case for many Indian groups.
correction to 34–“little dozens” should be “literally dozens”. Curse my crude metal body.
Karmacat:
From the point of view of many white Dakotans, Indians aren’t human, children or no.
Usernames!:
And I’ll give you a pass if you learn that names are best left up to Indigenous people themselves. A great many of us prefer NDN (Indian), especially here in Indian Country.
Usernames @ 33, before you go lecturing people, perhaps you should educate yourself. Maybe read up a bit on Indian Country Today or something, eh? The ability to self-identify is a really crucial one and PZ is reflecting the self-identification chosen by a great many of us.
TMM @ 37:
I linked that in #14, along with ndnnews and Indianz.com, so it seems clear that Usernames didn’t bother to read the comments first.
@28/29 O/T Re:Stadium Security
One nice thing my NHL teams stadium has done – they advertise a phone number during breaks where if there is an issue with another attendee you send a text, and security will come and take care of things. They don’t require the texter to ID themselves, so its anonymous.
This should be adopted at all venues.
I had the chance today to see some fifth-grade students performing so well that I was proud for them. It just made me happy to see how good a job they did, and to know that they were able to do it, and to do it for their own sakes. If anybody had started scoffing at those kids and insulting them, it would have been very wrong. To think that kids who did well academically were getting dismissed as stupid or useless is even worse. Kicking the asses of the harrassers would not have helped, though.
How about names like “Migrants” “Usurpers” or “Deficients”?
“Frolicking Gits” might be nice.
Oh come on, Wisconsin? There’s never been a single case of racism recorded in Wisconsin. It was a bad cheese reaction. That, and our mass consumption of alcohol.
Re: “Indians”- most of the Yakama tribal members I have met around here prefer that term, though many like to use “Native”. It’s great that we want to avoid unknowingly racist terminology, but the use is perfectly legitimate when people self-identify with that title.
@ Martha #6, Caine #14, Carla #22 and Crip Dyke #27
Thank you all for the suggestions; much appreciated.
*Carlie. Nor Carla. Sorry :-/
Those brave masculine white manly male pale men.
They showed them SJWs. They valiantly bullied a bunch of Indian kids who wanted to destroy sports by watching a game!
They must feel so proud and extra manly and extra white
A word on words – “Dakota” (and “Lakota” and “Nakota”) are descriptors for linguistic groups within the larger Sioux population, and are identified with the members of those groups.
While you might be trying to identify the territories North & South Dakota, your title of Good / Bad Dakota also (and more directly) would be a racist comment on the Dakota peoples. Of course the “Good” Dakota would be staying on the Rez.
I hope some industrious reporter can discover and publicize the names of the jerks in the VIP box. A little public shaming can go a long way toward getting people to think about their behavior.
WhiteHatLurker @ 46:
I am half Oglala Lakota. Please, if you aren’t Indian, don’t try to help with stuff like this, okay?
kirklarson @ 47:
In South Dakota? Over Indians? You’re dreaming.
I liked the team name suggestion of “DOCTORS” with the rationale: “Choose a mascot that favors brains over brawn. Nod to the medical school and phd program.”
FYI, tundra wookie is no better than the current name.