This is Thunderdome, the unmoderated open thread on Pharyngula. Say what you want, how you want.
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Pharyngula
Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal
This is Thunderdome, the unmoderated open thread on Pharyngula. Say what you want, how you want.
Status: UNMODERATED; Previous thread
This thread needs to go to Page 2.
Is there anybody out there?
@ kouras
A simple heuristic (IMHO): PZ is all for diversity of argument, what he won’t do, is allow his blog to be a platform for bigotry or proselytizing.
Also check out his commenting rules top left sidebar: direct link.
The pharynguwiki also has more information, or feel free to ask further in this particular thread.
Nerd’s “Bozo’s who believe total equality has been achieved”, refers to a quite substantial group of ‘pitters who baldly state that complete equality in legal, financial, political and social is the sole goal of feminism, and (bizarrely!) that this has been achieved. They like to call themselves “equity feminists”, although I think this is not quite the appropriate term for them. Their ranks contain no small number of women too, which gets held up by some MRA’s as proof that they themselves are not rank misogynists. You certainly will meet such on the ‘pit.
Happy Roswell Day!
Pink Floyd rules.
Chigau:
No one is out there.
Tony!
As Fox Mulder taught us, The Truth Is Out There.
(insert X-Files theme music here, I can’t manage a link tonight)
@ PZ
I cannot see the video from behind the Great fireWall of China ™ , but I just knew that it was Pink Floyd.
@ chigau
Your uniform is in the mail as we speak.
theophontes
I don’t remember which uniform we decided on.
Was it the one with the penis?
@ chigau
I think we just settled on socks in the end. It would be cruel to inflict penises on the myrmidon masses. (Further: tardigrades have no need for penises.)
Nods.
I miss strange gods…
There were good times.
@ Tony
I’ll email the Brontosaurus and see what’s up.
I would say hi.
theophontes,
I read perfectly well, thank you. I was drawing attention to the contrast between your waffling about what might have happened, and me talking about what actually has.
Sorry, blockquote fail
theophontes,
I read perfectly well, thank you. I was drawing attention to the contrast between your waffling about what might have happened, and me talking about what actually has.
I see no reason at all to retract it. I’m sure you didn’t intend the implication, but it was there all the same.
When I want advice about how cynical to be from someone who can’t recognise a US-backed military coup against an inconvenient elected leader when they see one, I’ll ask.
Well of course: Egypt is now firmly back under the neoliberal thumb. If we’re going to judge political developments by the reaction of the stockmarkets, we’ll all be cheering on anything that pleases the 1%.
Since they’ve been in power for almost all of the last half-century, that raises the question of why they haven’t done so up to now. Could it possibly be that providing scads of sinecures for senior military and their families somehow fails to maximise economic efficiency?
The financial markets don’t give a shit about democracy, except when it throws up a government that might threaten elite interests – upon which they destabilise it. Oh, I expect the military rulers of Egypt will hold some form of elections, and use them to erect a civilian, “democratic” facade – but they’ve made absolutely clear that they have a veto, which they will use to protect their own interests. If the new elected President steps out of line, he’ll go the same way as Morsi.
Are you actually listening to yourself? This man defended the serious sexual assault (which would be accounted rape in many jurisdictions, and rightly so) of women demonstrators.
I’d like to send a hi! along too.
@ Nick Gotts
The only place I could find it was buried in your strawman/loaded question:
.
Citation please?
You also make it sound as if millions of Egyptians have not suffered under Morsi’s grasping incompetence. As if they don’t know, painfully well, why they called for his removal.
Morsi was fucking up the economy for everyone.
I am not in favour of any military, anywhere, running an economy. This derives from my not being in favour of any military, anywhere.
Woah safari! Are you actually trying to suggest that I support such in any manner or form? No need to mine, my whole comment is there for all to see and adjudicate.
…
@ Dhorvath, Beatrice.
Thanks, the added cajoling may work.
theophontes,
I already gave a citation to the statement of the Head of the US Council on Foreign Relations just before the coup; and to the fact that following it, US aid to the Egyptian military has not been suspended in accordance with established policy.
What specific measures are you referring to? I await your expect disquisition on the state of the Egyptian economy, and just how much any government could have done to either improve it or fuck it up, in the space of a year.
theophontes
Please say “Hi” to ॐ from me, too.
test
hmmm
I don’t want to cajole. Being here isn’t easy for many people, and needing not to be is understandable.
I’d be happy to see strange gods around here again, but my hi! comes without pressure ;)
Seconded.
Suck business’ cock less, WSJ. Seriously, what kind of fucking asshole supports a dictator who disappears people solely for their free market policies? The ones that ruined Chile\s economy to boot?
I don’t know how people can support the gay agenda considering truly despicable articles that actually admitted how low activists of the movement were prepared to sink in order to “win”, so to speak. This link is called “The Overhauling of Straight America”, by Marshall Kirk and some other guy who uses a pen name. It led to the book called, After the Ball. If you just read the article you’ll clearly see how the agenda has been followed.
http://library.gayhomeland.org/0018/EN/EN_Overhauling_Straight.htm . In particular:
“In the early stages of any campaign to reach straight America, the masses should not be shocked and repelled by premature exposure to homosexual behavior itself. Instead, the imagery of sex should be downplayed and gay rights should be reduced to an abstract social question as much as possible. First let the camel get his nose inside the tent–only later his unsightly derriere!”
People deny there is propaganda being spread by the gay agenda. It’s obvious that is a lie. Go to the link above and look at how closely the homosexualism movement has followed that agenda. Truth is that both sides have agendas, and why Pro-Gays try to lie out of that is beyond me, but it’s another strike against their credibility when they tell such an obvious lie. No political movement has ever existed that didn’t have an agenda.
As for propaganda, if it doesn’t exist then what do those hundreds of pro-homosexualism organizations do??
I dunno…what are you doing?
Would you prefer that we flew flags depicting same-sex sex? I don’t even understand what you’re on about.
@ Horde
[sgbm]
No worries,I only sent well wishes and said he is missed around these parts. I won’t bug.
…………………………..
@ Nick Gotts
Ah, you mean things like the : “allowed to continue with destroying the economy, demonising the Copts, shutting out alternative voices, bypassing state institutions and the like”, that I waffled about. The exact same things that that sea of protesters calling for Morsi’s ousting were waffling about. The shit that Morsi won’t get to do anymore, now that they have succeeded (for better or for worse).
…
You mean a tweet? That is what got all those people so riled up and taking to the streets?
… McCain to the rescue!
Er, I said “fucking”. The process might well have taken more than a year. As for the precise disquisition, my phone doesn’t have tweets. (Al Arabiya : “Its all about the economy stupid.”)
Not really the angle I would have approached it from. Rather I would look at how Morsi attempted to marginalise woman and minorities and then consider if this could have done anything other than ruin the economy still further.
No. I wish there was a better way, a third way. Having said that though, I am currently of the opinion that the Egyptian people have made their will known.
Nick, you might like to channel more of Irfan Ahmad: Egypt, de-democratised.
And I’m saying your response to Obama’s condonation …. er, wait, this will get pathetic pretty soon. Why go for this type rhetorical slight-of hand? You know what’s wrong with it and still you do it. If you have some point to make about me personally, go ahead. If you wish to elucidate that other person’s current position on this form of sexual assault, feel free to do that too. Just don’t confuse the issues.
Please show your link isn’t anti-gay propaganda. From the name, it is, like everything you link to, which is RW presuppositional Xian propaganda. Which is why your inane opinion is not paid attention to. Yawn, try google scholar if you want real evidence.
If you’re ignorant enough to think we’re unified in one agenda…
Nothing in that article’s ‘despicable’. “We’re going ot make being gay look normal, because it should be considered normal”. “Despicable” is coming on here and whinging about how the gays are propagandizing, as if that was a pure evil, while also spreading propaganda yourself on how ‘the gays’ have a single unified agenda that’s bad. Fuck off.
THEY ARE MAKING YOU GAY BY INSERTING GAY THOUGHTS INTO YOUR GAY MIND WHENEVER YOU SEE, READ OR HEAR THE WORD GAY.
They’re very good with mind control, those pro-homosexuals. *nods head*
Mhm.
I seem to be repeating repeating myself.
I blame gays.
No Nerd #532, it actually is a Pro-Gay piece.
Advocacy ≠ propoganda, douchenozzle. (Not that I even care to click over to whatever you linked).
Since I would never hit the link from a known liar and bullshitter, and right wing Xian thug such as yourself, I’ll never know what it really says. Let’s just say my bullshit detector is going off full blast from you.
@ annejones
I, for one, welcome our new Gay Overlords.
Oh, and annejones, if I want to know what gays and lesbians think, I’ll shut the fuck up and listen to them, as I have for years. Listening is an effective tool for developing empathy. Learn to use it yourself instead of preaching.
The beginning of the article says:
“The first order of business is desensitization of the American public concerning gays and gay rights. To desensitize the public is to help it view homosexuality with indifference instead of with keen emotion. Ideally, we would have straights register differences in sexual preference the way they register different tastes for ice cream or sports games: she likes strawberry and I like vanilla; he follows baseball and I follow football. No big deal.
At least in the beginning, we are seeking public desensitization and nothing more. We do not need and cannot expect a full “appreciation” or “understanding” of homosexuality from the average American. You can forget about trying to persuade the masses that homosexuality is a good thing. But if only you can get them to think that it is just another thing, with a shrug of their shoulders, then your battle for legal and social rights is virtually won. And to get to shoulder-shrug stage, gays as a class must cease to appear mysterious, alien, loathsome and contrary. A large-scale media campaign will be required in order to change the image of gays in America. And any campaign to accomplish this turnaround should do six things.”
In other words, pretty much admitting that they have no argument that could possibly show homosexuality to be “moral”, but that they have to spin-doctor their way into getting accepted via more dubious methods. In any case, it is DEFINITELY Pro-Gay. Marshall Kirk, the guy who wrote the article, is a known LGBT rights activist. And judging from the article, also a dishonest scumbag who looked to get gay marriage and other extensions of so-called “equality” via shady methods.
Speaking of “equality”? Another lie meant to deceive the public into believing that homosexualists are just a group of innocent people who’s interests are not harmful to society. They want the right to assure that kids are raised without their biological parents. They want access to the minds of everyone’s children, usurping parental rights to decide what is included in their children’s education. They want access to school curriculums so as to indoctrinate against any religious beliefs parents wish to teach their children. They want to eliminate a person’s right to conscientiously object to being forced to take part in ceremonies celebrating homosexualism. They want to eliminate the rights of religious organizations to stop homosexualists from using their property for uses which are contradictory to those organizations, etc, etc. Those are not the benign interests that you portray them as being, so go try to sell that crap to someone gullible enough to buy it.
If you want to impose your idea of morality on other people, the burden is on you to demonstrate a given policy’s immorality. But you can’t do that without lying.
Mmm, yes, I distinctly recall following you around hollering at you about gay rights. Oh wait…you came here.
Who are “they” and where do “they” say this?
(Why yes, I’m procrastinating, why do you ask?)
I, for one, welcome our new gay overlords.
*ahem*
I also holler at the brontosaurus. If it is not too late to holler.
Uh, we have ethical arguments centered around the acceptance of gay people, you complete fucking jackass. Asshole like you ignore them and whinge about how your petty tyrant of a deity says its ‘immoral’. That doesn’t mean we lack good arguments, it means you, and people like you, are jackasses who prefers her imaginary deity to being a good person.
None of htat qualifies as ‘shady’.
So do straight people, when it pleases them.
You want that same access, you just want it to dictate jackassery.
Actually, you never had that right in your capacity as a government official. We’re not trying to take away an extant right, only ensure you jackasses don’t create a new one just to protest the gays.
@ annejones
Let me be straight with you: I don’t give a fuck about other peoples’ sex lives!
Why would I?
Why do you?
What I do care about is people like you, annejones, who spend their time trying to undermine my fellow humans’ basic human rights.
You are mean-spirited.
You are immoral.
You are the problem.
If they are harmful to society it is up to you to evidence your claim, with proper third party scientific evidence, say from google scholar. Somehow, as is typical from you, your posts are heavy on claims and presuppositions, light on evidence.
annejones, you are wrong, you are broken, and your side is losing.
In fifty years, perhaps much sooner, the vast majority of people will look at statements like yours and shudder in revulsion.
Your children and grandchildren will disavow you. They will be ashamed at having sprung from someone who would have said such things. Who among your acquaintances boasts of their descent from slave traders?
With any luck, you will be among the people who recall your previous statements with loathing. It’s not too late to look within yourself, seek out the sickness that causes you to spout such hate, and work to root it out.
annejones is horribly out of the loop. She somehow got her hands on the *Gay Reich* Sooper-Secret 5-Year Strategy from…1999! Guess what, annejones. There’s a new augmented plan, which builds on our early successes to corrupt the childrens and turn pro-athletes gay. We are so far beyond propaganda. We have Science on our side. And the US Army, which turned completely gay after *don’t ask don’t tell* was abolished. Ever heard of the gay-ray? We got one. It’s already in orbit. By October, it will be fully operational. So enjoy heterosexuality while you can. Because after October, its no more babeez for no one.
@ AE
{lifts claw to proboscis} Shhhhhhhh….
[whisper] teh sekrit mesarge has been sented [/whisper]
@ annejones
While you are on google scholar, can you find any animal population on earth that does not have a substantial homosexual component? Some animals even require homosexuality in order to breed. According to Real Christians ™ it was YHWH who made the creatures, and people, as they are. Do you want to contradict YHWH?
…
While we are talking about YHWH… does He or does He not have a Penis?
Antiochus Epiphanes,
It’s worse … the article is from 1987.
theophontes,
Well, if we’re going for guilt by association, the coup has been warmly welcomed by the rulers of Saudi Arabia, and by Bashar al-Assad. I’m sure you’re proud to stand alongside those paladins of democracy and women’s rights. Oh, and add Tony Blair to those you’re lining up with.
Now you’re just being dishonest. You asked for evidence of US approval of the coup, I gave it, now you’re pretending I’m attributing the anti-Morsi demonstrations to a tweet. Have you no shame at all?
You do know who owns al Arabiya and where it’s based, I assume?
See, there are these things called “elections”, designed specifically for that purpose. The Egyptians had some last year. Unpleasant as the fact is, the Islamists won them. There were some more due soon (to replace those for the lower house ruled unconstitutional after the Islamists won them) and oddly enough, the secularists were not pushing for them to be held, even though they would have been a fine chance to make known the will of the Egyptian people. Now certainly, the secularists were entirely entitled to demonstrate, to call for Morsi to resign, to undertake campaigns of strikes and occupations to pressure him to do so. As long as they did that, they had my full support. Once they called for and then backed a military coup, they lost it.
Al Jazeera is based in Qatar, so presumably this means Qatar’s rulers are anti-coup. I have read that there’s a split between Saudi Arabia and Qatar over control of the Syrian opposition, see here. Qatar is aligned with the Muslim Brotherhood, Saudi against it.
My point is that your desire to defend the coup is leading you to minimise al-Sisi’s grotesque misogyny – along with the long corrupt, brutal, tyrannical history of the Egyptian military, if you were actually aware of the latter. You seem to think these people have suddenly become democrats and feminists.
Just a quick reminder. Earlier this year, annejones completely destroyed atheism and the theory of evolution with just one post.
And this is the blog she created about that event. Funny how annejones moniker links back to this page and not to her Triumph.
(How come I am not at all surprised that it turns out that annejones is homophobic and believes that we LGBT people are out to destroy society?)
annejones
The “gay agenda” is to have full equality and rights, just like straight people. These rights include being able to marry the person you love, have children if you so desire, and the concommitant property and heredity rights that come along with those legal relationships.
Get something through your haze of fear and bigotry:
You cannot be turned gay, and there is no such thing as an agenda to make straight people gay.
Homosexuality is a normal mode, deal with it.
—–
I also welcome our gay overlords. The food, drink, and decor are simply fabulous!
Gee, her evidence for her imaginary deity existing, and her holy book not being a book of mythology fiction, seemed to have disappeared, almost like it never existed except in her mind. Typical presuppositional bullshitting. Get your ass handed to you with facts and evidence, and pretend victory anyway. Not the sign of a rational thinking person.
? Are these terms some sort of dogwhiatle?
yeah, I think you’re misusing the word ‘conscientiously’ here. Also who is being forced to take part in ‘ceremonies’? Do they involve the ritual sacrifice of BABIES????
Oh, annejones is that annejones. The name was familiar, but I couldn’t remember the details.
Hi, hi. What a fool.
uh, I think you’ll find that’s true of everybody’s ‘moniker’.
Well, if they don’t then I’m not going.
hmm. Is it still the naturalistic fallacy if a Creator is posited?
You are right, Chas. I am afraid I missed that change to this blog.
Oh. That was long before I was actively recruited in the schools from heterosexuality, and forced to take part in ceremonies celebrating homosexualism. Maybe that was a 20-year strategic plan.
The manuscript that I am editing uses the term “noteworthily” two times. It is a completely cromulent word, but just one that is rarely encountered. Much less twice in a day. Carry on./
So, wait, this is what annejones originally objected to:
Yes, it is all just a diabolical, underhanded conspiracy that the discussion of gay rights doesn’t focus itself in detailed discussions of the mechanics of gay sex. Because Propaganda. Obviously.
I’m sure that the people talking about the Glories Of Straight Marriage just babble on and on, in nigh pornographic detail, about the wonders of Penis In Vagina, salivating on the Senate floor about how Straight Marriage should be the one true marriage because of the superior, appealing mechanics of straight sex.
What’s that you say? They don’t? The opponents of gay marriage are just as abstract? And if they get into details about sexual acts, it is always about Icky Gheys, and they rarely ever dare to talk about what straight couples do, even for the sake of comparison? Well, fancy that.
I normally respect people enough to read comments in their entirety before posting, but in this case I am making an exception.
FUCK YOU annejones AND THE REPREHENSIBLE, GENOCIDAL BUTCHER YOU WORSHIP.
No human rights, gay, trans, women, PoC, mentally ill, or physically disabled should be up for a vote. The ‘gay agenda’ is about equality you bigoted throwback!
=^_^= māo =^_^=
(That’s how they pronounce it, right?)
Even the most pious Turkish women in Germany and Austria bare their feet and wear open shoes or sandals when the weather is warm enough. They’re covered head to ankle and wrist.
(The less pious ones dress like everyone else.)
John Kwok.
…What the fuck?
What next? Will you link to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion?
…because the American public is the only public in the world.
*Picard & Riker double facepalm*
So Annejones: Your shocking expose is that gay people want their sexual orientation considered normal, to not be ostracized by society, and to have their relationships represented equally under the law. Wow. You may have come to the wrong blog cupcake, that’s what we want and believe already. Clearly we’ve been brainwashed by the evil gay agenda that thinks that what 2 consenting adults do in the privacy of their own home is no business of ours.
If you seriously believe that TEH GAY is an evil that must be purged from society then prove it. The null hypothesis is that a Homosexual person is no more and no less moral, good, and just than a heterosexual person. Unless, and until you can provide some evidence that being Gay is intrinsically harmful (There’s plenty of extrinsic harm courtesy of people like you) we will continue to support the dreaded GAY AGENDA.
Oh and if you bring up the sham Regnerus study we will laugh you off the blog.
annejones @ #541
Seems fair enough. It’s so easy to live out life happily when a disproportionately large number of people think – or are willing to act as if – you’re not a fucking human.
It’s reading rather more as though they recognise that people with views like yours can’t be argued out of positions they didn’t reason themselves into.
O.o
Further to Antiprepo @ #564, wouldn’t campaigning with detailed representations of the mechanics of homosexual intercourse cause you to be even more affronted, using much the same points as here, but with a slightly different emphasis?
You can’t have your cake and eat it. In this argument, you have reached the end of cake.
I was under the impression that most current legislation allowing for same-sex marriage did not compel any religious body to carry out ceremonies if this contradicted their beliefs. WRT ‘religious rights’, the audience here is unlikely to be sympathetic.
On gay marriage, not all religious leaders support the bigots’ position. Kevin Rudd’s change of mind angers the Australian Christian Lobby.
Boo hoo.
Another vivid display of the utter odious bankruptcy of religion-inspired “moral” thought, provided courtesy of annejones.
@ Nick Gotts
What is wrong with McCain? If he is calling for due diligence wrt American policy in this regard, he is merely doing his job. (That he sometimes comes across as a buffoon is quite a separate issue.)
There are some dreadful bigots on both sides. Neither side seems to have too much concern for the very real day-to-day struggles of the Egyptians. Standing opposed to the Saudi bigots are the Muslim Brotherhood bigots (follow my linky above). Your projection is noted.
Nick, its all about people at the end of the day. The people. Not abstractions, processes, power players and politics. Not if these do not deliver some upliftment of a suffering people. They have seen enough of Morsi hijacking their revolution, trampling on their rights, betraying their hard earned democracy… What is it with all this tough love?
The “take care, there are Saudi investors in this company” didn’t tip you off that I am aware of this? Such an article could easily have appeared in the American -or most any – media, there is nothing particularly untoward about it. (Somehow my href and abbr had a lovechild, my apologies if your browser could not parse.)
No, of course I realise you are not quite that obtuse. I’m mocking your idea that the US can stick its entire policy towards Egypt in a tweet. That it somehow carries all the weight you appear to impute.
I am fairly sure they did this out of shear desperation, and lack of alternatives, rather than a nationwide conspiracy to hurt your feefees.
Crap! What if the journalist is actually personally convinced of the strength of his own argument and wrote the article – unaided by a whole fucking Qatari Minitrue Commitee that flies out to Australia in little black helicopters to tell him what to think…?
More crap. I notice your own complete lack of critique, of his grotesque misogyny, in your original post in this regard. There is a helluva lot to criticize in both Morsi (the inveterate misogynist fuck) and al-Sisi (the marginally-less-inveterate misogynist fuck).
.
You are upset at the harm done to the ideal of “democracy”, I am upset at the harm that was being done to actual, flesh-and-blood people. Certainly it would be better if neither had suffered.
….
@ David Marjanović
“The Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers”…
…
No. The cut off was rather arbitrary, I just wanted annejones to think of a small non-human cute critter, without getting all Ecdysozoa-ic on her.
(My apologies to the greater portion of the Earth’s living biomass for leaving you out.)
@ Chas
Sorry, I was distracted by a tasty bowl of pan-baked potatoes for lunch and missed your comment:
Just a noteworthy observation, made when annejones starts spouting about teh immoral ghey agenda. Animals can be gay without such. This is more the thin end of the wedge, to change annejone’s orientation in this argument, rather than a deep theophilosophical insight.
Further, someone made a list for Pfffffft: List of animals displaying homosexual behavior
…
I was looking for an old discussion on Pharyngula concerning homosexuality in snakes and how this formed an important part of their reproduction. Might have been garter snakes? My googlefoo is failing me.
theophontes,
*sigh* Your naivity might be touching if it were not so infuriating. Obama wanted to signal approval for a coup, but to do so deniably. What better way than to nudge the head of the CFR?
My “fee-fees” have nothing to do with it, you silly person. What does, is the fact that de facto military rule has now been established for the indefinite future in Egypt. There was certainly not a lack of alternatives. The army and police were not repressing demonstrations – note that elements of the then opposition were able to burn down the Muslim Brotherhood HQ without interference, so demonstrations and peaceful occupations could certainly have continued. Accompanied by a series of one-day general strikes – after all, if the Egyptian people were so overwhelmingly against Morsi, these would have garnered huge support. The motivation for most of the calls for a coup was probably understandable impatience – a desire to get Morsi out as quickly as possible – but that has led the secularists into a tragic error.
That naivity again. Qatar is an absolute monarchy. Al Jazeera needs to maintain a reputation for factual accuracy, but the editorial line will always be regally approved. Similarly, Al Arabiya’s editorial line will reflect the views of the Saudi and Dubai monarchies.
Actually, I linked to a description al-Sisi’s role in the systematic sexual assault of women demonstrators the first time I mentioned him. I don’t know how you think you can judge Morsi to be more misogynistic than al-Sisi, but then, you seem to think you know a lot more about the whole situation than you really do.
Oh just fuck off. You are stupid enough to trust a bunch of corrupt thugs, who have seized power with the support of some of the most brutal and reactionary regimes in the world, to behave decently. I’m not.
Ah. Like the 50+ people shot dead by the military in Cairo and elsewhere since the coup, and the unknown number injured, or seized and imprisoned in unknown locations.
I don’t know “whose” Le Monde is, but they had some strong words to say about the army violence.
http://www.lemonde.fr/idees/article/2013/07/09/en-egypte-l-inadmissible-violence-de-l-armee_3444735_3232.html
Cardinal Pell’s hearing transcript is up, btw…
The quote “Some of the victims weren’t entirely blameless” doesn’t seem to be in it.
Teh Gay Agenda:
1) Wake up
2) Eat breakfast
3) Curse at traffic
4) Work
5) Lunch
6) Work
7) Curse at traffic
8) Dinner
9) Sleep
I see through your evasions of truth
:D
@Beatrice:
Shhh! You’re not supposed to tell them the stuff that we can only see with rainbow-colored lenses!
Sorry. I just like the word debauched and this was a chance to use it.
(Unfortunately, I’m not entirely sure how it is pronounced)
Beatrice: It’s pronounced dee’-bow-shade’ with equal stress on the first and third syllable. Trust me. :)
annejones
1) You misundertsand: homosexuality isn’t moral. Heterosexuality isn’t moral. Sexuality at all isn’t moral. The issue here is that it’s immoral to deny other’s their rights based on their sexual preference.
2) What’s dubious about this? They want the relevance of sexual preference to be on par with the relevance of ice cream preference.
1) A scumbag who, apparently, is paradoxically honest about his dishonesty. Unless we’re assuming that he’s lying in that article, in which case he’s lying about the lies you’re claiming he lied about.
2) Why the scare quotes? What do gays want that can’t be described as equality?
3) See above
1) Evidence? No?
2) What the bloody fuck?
3) Mere assurance isn’t a problem, is it? Now were they to ensure such a thing, I might see a problem.
4) How would that even be feasible? Would they take over the government and create a police task force to break into the homes of heterosexual parents, kidnapping their children?
5) Your projecting your churches wants onto gays.
6) Fun fact: parents don’t have this choice. Eduaction standards are set by the school board. Generally, the board take input from parents, but the final say comes from a small group of people, most of whom don’t have kids in the school system at all.
1) See above, e.g. projection; I think we can also safely assume that you’re no fan of evolution.
2) Ceremonies celebrating sexuality, oh my! Seriously, what ceremonies? As an aside, what are your opinions an prayer within school and government ceremonies?
3) Once more, how is this even feasible?
Nice, White, Christian Man: “Stop! Thief! That man has stolen my statue of Jesus!”
Horrible, Evil, Gay Deviant: “Ahahaha, you’ll never catch me!”
Police Officer Johnson: “Caught you! How dare you steal from this man?”
N,W,C Man: “Thank you officer. It’s nice knowing that my right to religous paraphernalia is well protected in this country.”
H,E,G Deviant: “Officer, you don’t undertand. I’m gay. I plan on doing Horrible, Evil, Gay things with that statue.”
Off. Johnson: “Well, in that case, you have every right to have that statue. Have a good day sir.”
N,W,C Man: “Oh the humanity! Curse you Obama!”
A.E. @549:
Soooo, this gay ray…what effect does it have on those of us who are already Absolutely Fabulous?
No, no, you’re getting it all wrong! Without the gay ray, you’d suddenly start smelling, grow hair (not too much) don a cowboy hat and start looking around at the girls once more. Oh wait, cowboys are now gay.. so you’d be a.. a.. a lumberjack!
Antiochus Epiphanes,
Got it! ;)
Get ready to have your mind blown…
Absolutely Fabulouser.
It is difficult to imagine, but this is exactly the result that the GR engineersare getting. You’ll become like a guitar amplifier that goes to 11.
_______________________________________________
=8)-DX :
*side-eye*
We are trying to have a serious conversation here.
QFMFT!
*mind completely blown*
Seconded.
…and I’d like to add a double middle finger salute.
t(=-=)t
Jackie, why are you being so mean to annejones. She civilly came here to civilly warn the straight people here that LGBT activists are out to degrade everything that her ever civil big sky daddy set up. Just because she accuses several classes of humanity of undermining what humanity “should” be does not mean she should be even remotely treated as how she would like we LGBT people to be treated. That is just mean and intolerant of you.
For the sake of decorum, we must be nice to those people who do not wish for us to exist.
Umm … no it isn’t. This clearly proves that I cannot possibly trust you ever again.
Until next time.
.
.
annejones is a real piece of work, isn’t she. How nice and civilised it must be to have one’s rights spurned and one’s very humanity impugned by only the most respectably dressed and well-spoken of vile bigots. Excuse me while I decide whether to vomit on her shiny, shiny shoes or laugh at her delusions.
I was called a FtBully by the follower (NOT A MEMBER) of AVfM. The one who uses a cattle skull for his icon.
My life is complete.
Janine:
Were you at least informed who was the target of your FtBullying? I would like to know which #bravehero deserves mockery this time.
opposable thumbs…
*erk* I screwed the pooch on this one. What I meant was DAY-bo-SHADE. It’s been a few months since I made up fraunch pronunciationments.
Fie on I.
In Malta. I can see Cairo from my balcony. So to speak. Surprisingly moderate temps here, 27-29C. Turns out my hotel is in the party district, which means the units of alcohol sold in bars and pubs are buckets of beer and pitchers of vodka. The folks who mainly consume these things look about 15. Tomorrow I will go and visit some churches. And eat pizza. You can tell who invaded the place in the past!
Tony, I gave enough clues about the identity of this person. Also, there is no need to go mocking for my sake. I intend to give him what he deserves. Being ignored. (The fool says that FtB is an Orwellian group. Eh. Whatever.)
For Chas: Dippy the tortoise weighs in at 120 kilograms as forklift needed to conduct his first health check.
Cute pics, though I doubt a forklift was actually needed; surely, six people could each lift but 20 Kg each.
actually, it’s the Abrahamic religiots like yourself that HAVE harmed society for hundreds of years, and the rest of us, finally realizing that, are looking to eliminate that harm from future society.
your days are numbered.
better get used to the idea.
adapt or die, as they say…
Wow, the clues sailed right over my head. I got it now.
Chigau:
If people like annejones don’t like where the US is going, they are free to move elsewhere.
My #599 was meant as a response to Ichthyic’s #597, rather than chigau.
Justin Griffith on Patheos: [http]www.patheos.com/blogs/rockbeyondbelief/2013/07/09/why-the-move/
Heh.
Possible TW
Apparently there is someone called Mary P Koss, who is apparently a super-influential feminist, who has done studies which deliberately excluded forced envelopment from the definition of rape. Despite me saying many times that I disagree with this and that her ideas and ideology as informed by her feminism are probably different to mine, MRAs over on Ally Fogg’s blog seem to think this means I should renounce all feminism everywhere, because I disagree with her.
I just… I don’t even… *rageflail*
Bit sad to see that the slymers are now hunting the mentally and emotionally unstable. Anything to win another soul over to their brand of hate.
Got to say, I’m not impressed with Stephanie Zvan banning Chas from AD. Smells of cheap and petty revenge to me. Not cool.
Griffith goes out of his way to embrace the slyme while whining that I’ve used gendered slurs in the past. Good riddance.
And no, you guys don’t know the full story of the incessant whining I had to put up with from Griffith, the weird drama and childish obnoxiousness. This is the guy who made excuses for the slymepit, saying they were just a product of 4chan culture (to which I say, so what?) We made the strongest statement we could when Greg Laden made violent threats — we couldn’t do anything more serious than kicking him out of the network, short of driving over to his house and beating him up — and that wasn’t enough for Griffith.
And now to claim that I’m the only draw here? Bullshit. That’s just sour grapes over the fact that we have a lot of blogs here that were more popular and more interesting than his.
As for “trophy wife” — how clueless. That was a mocking reference to a right wing accusation that the woman I’ve been married to and loyal to for 33 years is simply an ornament. The whole point of it is that she’s the opposite of superficial.
Thumper
It seems to be a weird inversion of the “clean up your house” argument. Except instead of denouncing wrongful acts of others within the larger tent, were not allowed any association at all. It’s like any sort of significant blemish taints the label entirely, and were supposed to ignore the good feminism has done.
…oh no, not the dude who was okay with the Slymepit and posted a loving paean thanking soldiers for preventing the atomic bombs from dropping, anything but that.
I have come to the conclusion that being in the military fucks up people by celebrating every aspect of toxic masculinity as a good thing. I am currently 6 months in to the process of reprogramming my son after a ten year enlistment period.
I quit reading Justin when he decided that he was going to be the #bravehero who brokered peace between the horde and the slymepit. What a dipshit.
Re: Mary P Koss as an influential figure
PRetty sure you can discard any claims that someone who lacks a wikipedia page entirely was a hugely influential person in a movement as massive as feminism. She could surely have still been influential, since it’s just hte pfft, but not THAT big a deal. I’ve certainly nevah hoid of her.
The argument is that she was influential in creating policies for the reporting of male rape victims (e.g. she excludes any victims that haven’t been penetrated; sex without consent doesn’t count). It seems to be true, as far as I can tell.
The argument doesn’t stop there though. It’s not just ‘she did things’. They also seem to be implying that she shaped feminism to <3 these things, and that anyone who doesn't is No True Feminist.
Yeeaah, they took reasonable criticism to “if you don’t give up the whole movement, you deserve to be accused of supporting her!”.
…Also, having just watched The Wrath of Khan for the first time, I’d apparently forgotten that Khan wasn’t a white dude. I’m now quite irritated at the ridiculously white dude they got for him in the Abrams reboot version of Wrath of Khan.
I never knew Justin was trying to patch tbings up with the Pitters. That shows a complete lack of understanding of the problem many of us have with them.
His comments about PZ were insulting and cheap.
Also, what was he here FOR? His comments seem to indicate riding on PZs coattails and without PZs “support”, he’s packing his toys and leaving. Is he afraid that not having that support will affect his readership?
His comments about PZ being the major draw to FTB, do not sit right with me. There are many other wonderful bloggers on this network. Sure, they may not have the number of followers that PZ does, but they DO have followers. They are a draw for some people. PZ =\= FtB.
Fuck you Justin. I hope the door slams your ass on the way out.
Tony, can I suggest that we let Griffith be? Yes the stuff he says is off and wrong and all that, but my impression is that the guy isn’t well. Let’s rather target the slyme scum that is claiming him now and is cheering him on. I personally wish Justin Griffith well, not just on Patheos, but with everything else he is doing. The internet isn’t all there is.
Ok, I have heard a few times (3? 4?) in the last few years of PZs use of gendered slurs, but I have never seen a link or even seen a quote with full context. Does such exist (not saying it is impossible, he can screw up like the rest of us, but I am not going to take Justin’s whine induced rant at face value).
****
Tethys @608:
I have wondered how to counteract the toxic effects of military indoctrination.
Rorschach:
I was unaware of any issues Justin is dealing with. He has my sympathies there. I was not planning on doing anything more than stating my opinion, but your point is reasonable.
She did? Wow, that’s…remarkably thin-skinned.
Well, guess I shan’t be clicking over there anymore. *shrug*
Yes that was quite pathetic. Cumberbatchsome, so to speak. Among many other pathetic things in that cursed remake.
There have been major meltdowns on his blog here in the past, and in a way that people were concerned. I don’t think he is a well guy, so I’m thinking we best lay off, just to be on the safe side.
Tony, this is the link to the “infamous” bitchez post.
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/08/07/it-works-bitches/
Wow. Nine years ago. So what PZMyers did nine years ago is comparable to the shitblizzard of the past three years coming from the pit?
Shit. I cannot do maths anyome Seven years ago, not nine. Sorry. I do have an excuse though.
Chas
She says she’s banned you before. For what, I have no idea.
Shit. I cannot do maths anyome Seven years ago, not nine. Sorry. I do have an excuse though.
I’m pissed off at Ophelia Benson for praising some piece of shit who wrote a horrible article about Sylvia Plath. And I’m not even a Plath fan.
(the shit article: http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2013/jul/11/sylvia-plath-the-unbearable/?pagination=false&printpage=true)
I think the mocking on the part of the author of Plath being suicidal is what got to me. Oh, her writings were so morbid and there was so much talk about death and death was made sexy… *horror*
Well, fuck you.
Tony
So far it has consisted of scary amounts of uncontrollable anger, lots of fighting followed by lots of talking, some anti-anxiety meds, and a behavioral therapist. The meds and therapist are helping, but OMG is it annoying to have your kid mansplain to you, especially about things he knows nothing about!
The authoritarian culture works in the military, not so much in normal social situations. Hell no am I going to put up with it in my home. I do not take orders from anyone but my boss. (son and spouse moved in mid December)
Beatrice, thanks for the link to the article in Le Monde.
Uh, that guy was Máo, with an inbuilt question mark. His name means “hair”, not “cat”.
It Is Pronounced TroPAY
what
Defending stuff by saying it’s a product of 4chan culture? Does not compute.
David Marjanović
Mao
Heh. My infamous use of a gendered slur is simply echoing Randall Munroe. Not that that excuses it, but it’s time for them to damn xkcd.
Huh. Justin left recently? I figured that he would have jumped ship before now. Especially considering the age of the issues on his list of grievances. Go figure.
*cautiously peeking in*
Dhorvath!
*pouncehug*
and rorschach!
*alsopouncehug*
–
*hugs (without easily-misunderstood pouncing (possibly a bad idea in the general vicinity of survivors of The Military))* and sympathy for Tethys&Son.
–
Huh. I expected to see more on proposals for Painting The
TownDesertRedWhite.;)
–
huh, me neither. Probably I somehow impugned her bff Laden. Or I might have called her (heh) ‘Sarge’.
whatever.
…just judging on her reactions to your post about evo psych, I think it’s because she finds you personally irritating to her viewpoint.
It’s understandable. You are personally irritating to her viewpoint. for the most part, I think u were right though, FWIW.
I find you personally irritating at times too, even when ur right.
I wouldn’t ban u for it though. Seems a bit defensive.
Oh, please. You just don’t understand how freeing it is!
@ Nick Gotts
I have tried to find any mention of this “fact” anywhere on the interwebz. I don’t know if this is through collusion of the world’s media cabal or that I’m just not trying hard enough. Perhaps you can help. It just appears to me you have built a big story, inverted-pyramid shaped, off of a very little tweet.
I highly suspect confirmation bias on your part is at work here (something we all can, and do, suffer from), somehow creating far to much salience from a random tweet. Not just that, but ignoring the fact that half the message (even pretending for a moment it was any more than an arbitrary twit) somehow didn’t get through.
I would have found something like this more pertinent:
Link here. The subtext seems to be that we live in a global village and that ‘Merkins put their money where their mouth is when exporting their world view. Sadly their hypocrisy also tends to get entrained into the gush of cash.
This information, I acknowledge could also support alternative narratives. One’s of which I am admittedly a little naive. One’s that include little black helicopters, puppetmasters, twitter accounts and the like. I leave it for others to embroider on such.
If you have one bunch of corrupt thugs facing off against another, things are bound to turn ugly. I do not support either side. There is another whole group you appear to be neglecting, that is, the vast majority of suffering Egyptians. Not that they necessarily trust the army (as you would like to accuse me of doing), but rather that they find themselves in desperate straights and find the army, at this juncture, less obnoxious than the Brotherhood thugs.
…
@ rorschach
I just want to say a big thank you for the book you recommended. I have not had the time to read very far yet, but have been enjoying it so far. In exchange I’d like to recommend Boyer’s “Religion Explained”. It ties in rather well with Kahneman’s book, and would be ideal to read afterward.
.
Boyer has been up on Pharyngulawiki for a while now, but for anyone that missed it here is a quick link.
…
@ David Marjanović
I stand corrected:
Is that ‘freeing’ in the Slymey way that says ‘screw you, I got mine’?
Um, well… this appears to have slipped under everyone’s radar.
The fantastic Wendy Davis may have managed to fillibuster the anti-abortion bill in Texas, but they appear to have managed to pass an anti-masturbation law. Seriously.
What… the… actual… fuck, Texas? What the fuck?
@Rutee Katrey and Jacob Schmidt
No, I’ve never heard of her either. But then I’m not too well versed in feminism, I’m pretty new to it. I’m basically of the opinion that women are disenfranchised by our current society, and this should not be the case. As far as I’m concerned these are the core beliefs of feminism and believing them and trying, in my own small way, to do something about it makes you a feminist. I don’t think I need to know all of the feminist literature and be able to document the actions and opinions of every feminist ever in order to call myself one.
They appear to be labouring under the belief that feminism in one large coherent whole, and that supporting the ideology is the same as supporting the actions and opinions of every other person who supports the ideology. They also seem to be under the impression that being a feminist is the same as being a fully paid-up member of a political party. Every explananation I offer (and that Jacob offers, your posts on that thread are great) as to why they are downright wrong seems to fall on deaf ears. They have a mind-bogglingly simplistic view of the world.
Q: Why would Coyne think that anybody wants to see a photo of his bog-standard hotel room in Vegas?
Enemy Janine,
I’m just a big ‘ol meanie-meanie-jelly-beanie.
I don’t know how I live with myself.
not that I put anything past them but that article is satire.
Read the other headlines…
Thumper @637: Not to burst your bubble, but I see this little note over on the right side of the page you linked:
But, Poe’s Law and all, it seems a likely progression of the way the Texas legislature has been going.
——————
I’m tired of hearing about the “gay agenda.” When do we get to hear about the pansexual agenda?
I’d say it’s fairly ugly for a casino hotel. What I’d like to know is what “fighting the fakers” is supposed to mean.
@Rev. and Yellow Thursday
Ah. Well now I feel silly. A work colleague told me they had passed such a law, and a little Googling turned that page up. It never occurred to me it was satire, I just thought “Shit, he’s right!”. Confirmation bias at work.
Sorry all, panic over!
*whew*
Offered without comment…
There we go. One more stale trick for the religiot racist homophobic asshole who got elected to lead my country’s federal human rights commission. Now he’s whining that the separation of church and state is discrimination against Evangelicals.
Damnit, America! I don’t want you exporting this bullshit to here!
…and this tweet (in the right sidebar):
“Tribune Herald @TribuneHerald
Our very own George M. Spooner is now an award winning author! He has received the “Pull”-itzer prize for coverage of the masturbation law!”
Texas: you can’t beat it!
It’s all down to how they’re raised: http://archive.org/details/KnifeThr1950
cm’s changeable moniker (quaint, if not charming) Um, yikes! I wonder where and if those girls are today.
@ David Marjanović
Yeah, he had to beat off very stiff competition from Mrs Palmer and her five daughters.
“Pull it … *surprise!*“
Hey Chris Clarke :
https://proxy.freethought.online/pharyngula/2013/07/11/did-you-know-douchebags-are-full-of-dihydrogen-monoxide/comment-page-1/#comment-649649
I didn’t realise it was your thread and “thought” it was PZ Meyers’ one.
Also did you really have to delete my comment? Would it have killed you to allow an opinion that quite reasonably disagrees with yours to remain? Yeesh.
Maybe Chris Clarke your threads should be in a different colour background or something?
Or maybe you could person up and be a bit nicer to other human beings even if they don’t always agree with you on everything?
@ StevoR
Actually, I am amazed at CC’s (&PZ’s) tolerance of you on their blog.
If you are worried that the world’s gonna assplode for lack of your comment there, repost here.
I thought StevoR said he would respect the blog owner’s decision about him. Well, Chris is a master of his own threads, according to PZ, and Chris doesn’t want StevoR in his threads. Own up your words, StevoR.
Thanks, Chris!
@ ^ Beatrice : You missed the part where I noted I thought I was commenting on one of PZ’s thread’s NOT one of Chris Clarke’s?
I’m certainly not the first person here to find it confusing and assume they were commenting on a PZ thread when it was a Clarke one.
Yes, okay, Chris doesn’t want me on his thread’s – I accept that although I don’t agree with his views of me or understand why he’s formed them.* Chris Clarke has badly misjudged me but that’s his decision and I do respect that.
@ 655. theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物) :
Really? Why?
What exactly am I supposed to have done aside from occassionally disagreeing with the hordes consensus on (only) a couple of issues. I’ve been called all sorts of false, hurtful and abusive names because I’ve expressed my opinions mostly calmly and reasonably. I admit I went OTT a couple of times and after I did, I apologised for that. I’ve learnt from this blog and try to make positive contributions here.
Yet some here insist on caricaturing me as some dreadful strawmonster due to their own lack of actual reading comprehension and prejudices against me. Maybe its time they stopped and asked themselves if I’m really what they think I am – because, me being me, I can assure them all – incl. Chris Clarke – that I’m not.
The world won’t “assplode” but it will eventually be incinerated when our Sun balloons into a red giant star. I’m not “worried” just angry.
Okay :
Which is in essence what a few others incl. Josh were typing there.
StevoR:
Maybe you could be bothered to read the byline of posts before commenting.
(But then, it’s always someone else’s failure, never yours — right?)
* I know that Chris Clarke has called me offensive stuff that I’m not and abused me after I emailed him just the once and reasonably to ask him why that was and I don’t recall ever doing anything nasty to him – yes, we’ve disagreed on a couple of points but I argued rationally without resorting to personal attacks on my part – and I don’t understand his hatred towards me or why he’s so adamant that I not post on his threads.
So, please Chris Clarke, is it too much to ask why exactly do you seem to hate me?
Are you confusing me with someone else?
StevoR:
Mmm hmm.
If you genuinely care to learn, learn to check that what you imagine an idiom to indicate matches the common meaning before blithely employing it malapropos.
Here: storm in a teacup.
@ 658. John Morales :
Wrong. I’ve fucked up in the past and have admitted that many times. Hell, I’m not claiming to be perfect here as you’d know from the “fallible human being” part I used to have in my ‘nym. Just because I’ve changed that doesn’t mean I now think I’m the Pope!
And, yes, you are correct. I should’ve checked the byline there. Mea culpa.
StevoR,
Yes, well, my comment was about your gracious acceptance of Chris not wanting you here that you have shown in those two comments here in Thunderdome, not about what was a mistake of not noticing who was the post’s author (although, what John said about that stands too).
StevoR I strongly suspect that Christ Clarke, like many of the rest of us, is sick and tired of your racism and especially the increasingly pathetic denials of that racism. Must we yet again do this tired and sorry song and dance AGAIN? Need we dredge up links to your posts? Explain how your racism is not welcome here? Once again roll our eyes when you shout to the high heavens how totally unracist you are after saying racist thing after racist thing?
I’m with theophontes. Your presence here is a continuing miracle.
StevoR, a commendable admission @661.
(Groan)
StevoR: I hate to say it, even as a fellow Adelaide resident, but you are one of the dullest commenters here. Do try to learn to read, learn to spell the blog owners name (ITS MYERS NOT MEYERS), and cut back on the incessant whining. I usually skip your posts as they add absolutely nothing of value to the conversation.
I’m not even going into why you raise the hackles of many commenters here, if you can’t work it out, despite being told frequently, you’re probably a lost cause.
NEW THREAD.