This is the lounge. You can discuss anything you want, but you will do it kindly. Hmmm…a baby echidna is called a puggle? I did not know that.
Status: Heavily Moderated; Previous thread
Pharyngula
Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal
@Gileall, 463:
Frodo’s not the hero, Sam is. Tolkien said so.
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Samwise_Gamgee
@Gilell, 466:
What book/movie was Hermione tortured in? What?
Giliell:
I painted the nursery “spinach white”. It’s much prettier than it sounds.
trinioler,
When they were at Malfoy Manor, after getting caught by Snatchers.
Pteryxx – interesting that you posted that. I just listened to this week’s On The Media, and Brooke Gladstone was interviewing a journalist who covered the conventions and was talking about what they mean. Bizarrely, he went off on Michelle’s speech and how it was a lot of show and not a lot of policy substance, and how it shows how nothing in politics is about actual substance. Brooke was dumbfounded and kept trying to get him to understand that policy wasn’t the point of Michelle’s speech at all, there were other people and speeches for that, her goal was to set a particular tone and give a particular view of the history and personality of the president, and he never got it.
trinioler
Doesn’t matter if he’s the hero (I think the books are full of heros, overcoming their fears and weaknesses, exchange hero with character if that’s better), his character still sucked.
Hermione gets tortured in the Deathly Hallows by Bellatrix to find out where they got the sword of Gryffindor.
Oh, and I hated how the Snatchers all were goth in the movie.
Audley
It’s just that I can’t imagine what spinach white would even look like. A light green?
There’s another colour-name that drives me crazy: warm grey. Huh?
Warm and cool greys are real things though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey#In_color_theory
I’m wodering if the character had worked better if he hadn’t become a traitor in the end. Tolkien tried to write a suffering hero, carrying a terrible burden yadda yadda and in the one moment he turns into a bloody asshole who used each and everyone of his friends for his own ends.
FWIW, I don’t read it this way. I read the end where he turns on everyone as his simply failing. He resisted the temptation of power for X months but then failed and gave into it at the last minute. It always did feel to me like that bit was put in just so Gollum could accidentally redeem himself, but still, I don’t think Frodo turned into an asshole, just someone who couldn’t resist the lure of power any longer. Though one could claim that that is in itself the definition of asshole…
Giliell:
It’s a very pale, chalky green. http://www.sherwin-williams.com/homeowners/color/find-and-explore-colors/paint-colors-by-family/SW6434/?WT.mc_id=Old%20DIY%20Color%20Redirect
Tony,
Yes, part of the liking for books is simply physical: appearance, weight, texture, smell; but there are also big functional advantages that no on-screen alternative yet has. I have a book that I think I’ve mentioned here before: The Myth of the Paperless Office, by A J Sellen which is all about these. It’s a decade old now, and on-screen alternatives have advanced in that time, but I doubt they are going to completely displace books for a long time.
Audley, it’s pretty, but may I use your link as an excuse to rant about something? The Sherwin-Williams logo. Not only is the idea of a giant bucket of paint covering the earth appalling, they draw it dripping off the earth as though gravity were coming from underneath the earth. That’s not how it works. Gah! I know, I know, I really do have better things to worry about, but it’s these little inconsistencies that bother me the most.
Weird. Typing just now reminded me of my dream last night, in which the keyboard had changed very subtly. I remember specifically that A and Z were now next to each other on the keyboard, probably on the second row. WTF does that mean?
Dianne:
One of my BiLs manages a Sherwin Williams store in the area. I’ll complain to him on your behalf. ;)
Also, I don’t think their logo has changed since the mid 80s at least. Might be time for an update.
Beatrice, looks like I will have to rewatch the movie, because I don’t remember any sexual overtones. Then again, I wasn’t one of those who had an inappropriate crush on Emma Watson…
Powerful hiccups.
Possible cures: (1) Amputate feet; (2) Amputate head; (3) Remove pea from ear; or (4) Call the Poulet Patrol!
━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━
Your trebuchet is full of eels.
━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━
The mildly deranged penguin is the Supreme Generalissimo for Eternity of All Multiverses, though occasionally minions are utilized — and some paperwork in applying is involved, along with cheese and MUSHROOMS! and surviving the Pea Dojo.
Dianne, that’s a different possible interpretation. What I was missing there was the lead up to that moment. Apart from the short moment in the Orc tower, there’s nothing to hint much at this.
All the time it’s how the ring burdens Frodo, how it is his task to destroy it, yadda yadda.
I started wondering how long he’d been planning to do that.
The movie is better at showing his shift.
Also, I don’t think their logo has changed since the mid 80s at least. Might be time for an update.
A far more compelling argument than “some random person on the internet doesn’t like it”, much as my ego hates to admit it.
I have a very interesting book, The Origins of the British, by Stephen Oppenheimer, who suggests (he admits he can’t prove it) that a Germanic language was already spoken down the east coast of Britain before the Romans arrived, and may have survived there just as Celtic languages did further west, while the Anglo-Saxon “invasion” may have been predominantly peaceful (there’s little evidence of a violent invasion). Incidentally, he also says genetic evidence indicates that Celtic languages themselves spread in Britain through the earlier arrival of a relatively small group of Celtic speakers – most Brits seem to be predominantly descended from non-Indo-European speakers who arrived shortly after the end of the Last Glacial Maximum.
Also: 1/2 cup of peas has 5g of protein.
Source: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=1%2F2+cup+of+peas
hides!
Hamsters eating peas
What I was missing there was the lead up to that moment. Apart from the short moment in the Orc tower, there’s nothing to hint much at this.
Hmm…I tend to think that the whole “It’s my burden, only I can do this” thing was one of the signs of the ring taking over. It’s all very well for Frodo not to want to put the burden on someone else, but the whole ego trip of “Only I can do this” seems to me to be inconsistent with his earlier understanding that he is chosen because he’s ignorable and “insignificant”.
I also think it’s pretty clear that the ring has left damage, even after it is destroyed. The way Frodo interacts with Saruman, for example. On the surface, he appears to be trying to calm everyone down and do the merciful thing, avoid killing, etc. But he’s really goading Saruman into doing something that will make them kill him, mocking Saruman with the memory of what he (Saruman) had been and had lost. I think that ability-to hit people in just the right weak spot while appearing to be trying to help them-was an ability left by the ring. And part of why he couldn’t, in the end, stay.
One thing to keep in mind is that the “One Ring” is not a passive object. And it’s not just trying to subvert those who carry it, it’s changing them, even physically given enough time. There’s also IIRC an implication in the book that it was getting stronger the closer to home it got.
Given that premise, Frodo can’t be a hero because by the end he’s been changed and no longer is truly himself. He’s a victim, if anything.
Dianne:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AZERTY
This (although first row…)
dianne
You’ve given me stuff to think about, thanks
Alan Turing Monopoly board passes go…:
Actually, I can’t remember any sexual overtones either. I was just answering your question about when she was tortured.
I do get part of what Giliell was saying. Instead of her torture being about her, it’s only showed through Ron’s anguish about it (if I remember the movie correctly).
I am a black hole, a singularity from which books cannot escape. I don’t own a library card because once a volume has slipped over my event horizon it disappears from the universe as far as outside observers are concerned. The funny thing is that I have no reverence for mass market paperbacks that make up the bulk, and by bulk I mean MASS, of my collection. Managing a used book store for the best part of two decades will do that. Yeah, there’s a few I keep for sentimental reasons, and a few others that I love that would be hard to find again, But for the most part I keep them as a hedge against future poverty. I’ve got years of reading, well, re-reading to be precise, stockpiled against any kind of impediment to the purchase of new books. And should things really get bad there’s probably close to a grand in resale value in them.
Instead of her torture being about her, it’s only showed through Ron’s anguish about it (if I remember the movie correctly).
Hmm. In the book it was about Hermione, and specifically about her ability to lie creatively while being tortured.
One of the reasons why I love my Nook. I have a huge stockpile of books saved just in case. Much easier and cheaper than lugging around physical copies of books.
I seem to always sleep through the interesting conversations.
I’ve got a HUGE stockpile of unread books on hand, for emergencies such as my current situation. Books of mine that I never got around to, books my wife bought, free Kindle stuff. Unfortunately when I’m stressed I generally have a hard time reading anything that doesn’t immediately grab me. I find myself reading YA fiction of all things, the length and pacing are just about right for me.
Oh, I’ve got an ereader also, anything to keep my nasty reading habit fed. I bought a Bbook reader in 2007 because I didn’t want to be tied to Amazon. Unfortunately, I moved to Australia just at the time that publishers were starting to clamp down on out of country ebook sales. Over the first year here over half of the titles on my favourite vendor became not available for download in Austalia. They’re clinging to a regional business model that pretends that the Internet is not truly international. Mind you, it.s getting better with the major publishers finally making their titles available in e form here.
And with that I must to bed, it’s 1am here, I should never check teh Lounge before going to bed.
Dammit, I must go to bed, but one last thing:
Hey Joe*, do you ever use flat wounds? I love me some silky smooth wires and have been using D’addario Chromes for years. The Frankenplank needs restringing the next time I have a few bucks and I was thinking of trying some other brand for a change. Any thoughts?
*bechyah never heard that one before. :)
Oh, and I’m glad to hear that your reading needs are covered should you get into a place where you can enjoy it. That said, if you want something in a SF or Fantasy vein I’d be glad to ship something your way.
I’ve always stockpiled books, just in case, you know? I may never read that copy of Gravity’s Rainbow but dammit, it’s on my shelf should I ever need to.
Gravity’s Rainbow? Speaking of over-rated books…. Leave that thing on the shelf where it belongs. For me the problem with stream of consciousness writing is that it’s not my consciousness. Reading that shit has all the appeal of listening to strangers describe their dreams.
FossilFishy:
:) It’s a part of the Darkheart Lending Library, so maybe someone will want to read it.
FossilFishy,
When I say “HUGE stockpile”… let me go count, I keep the stockpile mostly separate from the stuff I’ve read… I mean close to 100 books total. So I’m golden.
I’ve used flatwounds, which felt a little weird and seemed to have a little more tension than roundwound. I’ll tell you what I tried recently that I think is going to me my go-to string for the next little while: Ernie Ball Cobalt Slinky. The difference in tone was actually noticeable beyond just the old/new string difference, really warm without getting muddy, high end chime without and harshness. What sort of guitar are you restringing?
Louis & Lexie, scritches, pets and love delivered to Vasco & Chester.
Louis, Vasco’s balls have gotten plenty of attention. Both Artemis & Angua (who are in for spaying today) managed to break into the studio several times over the last several days. Vasco, like the other boys, was excitedly chasing whichever fertile girl was in here and showing a willingness to fuck anything he could grab, which was usually another boy. :D Vasco has also decided that my right hand is very fuck-worthy, a habit I’m attempting to break. Also, Chester isn’t much better.
Heh. I can’t decide of having an eight hundred page postmodern doorstop of a book in your lending library is evil or genius or just plain old evil genius. I read the whole damned thing and the only thing that kept me going was sheer bloodymindedness. I refused to let it defeat me, but it was a near thing.
And when you use ‘thing’ three times in two sentences it really is time for bed.
[Chalks hands. Stretches Achilles tendons. Bounces three times on toes and takes a running start….]
Quick question related to nothing and everything all at once: how many Christians or Muslims have been bullied with rape and death threats by the atheist/skeptics community?
An Joe, it really is a Frankenplank. I described it once before, it started life as a Tokai Strat copy and now it’s something so idiosyncratic that most guitarists just shake their head at it. I was hoping you’d used some other brand of flatwound, heh spellcheck just turned that into flatworm, so I would have at least one opinion to narrow my choices. No worries.
But Improbable, I’ve heard PZ make nasty comments about religion and treat a sacred cracker disrespectfully. Also, Benson and Nasreen have been known to be rude about Islam. Isn’t that worse?
Sorry, Improbable Joe, thought the question was rhetorical then read more carefully. Unfortunately, I have no answer, since the FBI hate crime statistics don’t include information about offender by religion. So can’t say for sure. I would hope the number is zero. Who feels so strongly about the lack of a god that they have to threaten someone who believes otherwise?
No joke, it took me 8 years to slog my way through Gravity’s Rainbow. Of course, I set it down for a while a number of times during those years, but…
@Improbable.
How widely are you defining death threat? Because if we count “I think we should kill a bunch of you indiscriminately and want to actively promote that” then quite a few actually.
good article
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nico-lang/trampires-why-the-slut-sh_b_1850940.html
Good evening
Is it ableist if I think that the guy with the walking disability who got a parking slot reserved for him and him alone should fucking park there?
Because he’s taken to using some of the others (not like they were closer or better accessible, on the contrary, he’s only been able to use them since he doesn’t need his walker anymore), thereby effectively uing two slots in a place where parking slots are scarce…
+++
The sexualized overtones started earlier when the Snatchers touch her and talk about how pretty she is.
@Giliell
I’m torn on that because torture is apparently often sexualized. I’m reminded of Abu Ghraib prison and accounts of witch hunters.
So how can we tell when someone is going for a cheap thrill in writing or actually trying to portray the nastiness of people who torture?
That said I will still recommend the “Five lights” TNG episode for one of the best and mature explorations of what torture is on TV.
Okay, Angua, Artemis, Mallory, Pearl, Perdita and Zoe are at the clinic being spayed today. Everyone at the clinic could not get over how much Zoe is changed, she really does look like a different rat. We’ll now be able to get her on the megacolon med, as she’s grown so much.
Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for Carrot. He’s also at the clinic today, hopefully, for a successful flushing out. Nothing we did worked – not the laxatives, not the diet, not the enema, zip, zero, zilch. Zoe didn’t get better until after she had been sedated and seriously cleaned out at the clinic, though, so we’re holding out hopes for Carrot. He is such an incredibly sweet boy, calm and happy in nature and we really, really hope he’ll have a good chance after today.
Alright, gotta go clean up and head into town, errands to do before the pick up at 3:00.
Giliell,
Is it possible that some asshole keeps parking on his slot, so that’s why he uses other places? If not, he‘s the asshole.
oy Caine, best wishes to AAMPPZ and poor Carrot.
So, this is the second week in a row out here in SoCal that we’ve had flash storms: sudden, out-of-nowhere thunderstorms that drop an inch or two of rain in an hour and them vanish.
I’m wondering if this is going to be the new norm.
Poor Carrot. :(
*fingers crossed*
I could not possibly disagree more vehemently.
It’s one of the great achievements of humankind, in my view.
My fingers are also crossed for Carrot.
Eeep. Although, come to think of it, if they’re getting spayed today then it wouldn’t matter even if they were a few days gravid. Phew.
Scritches to any ratlet that might be feeling a bit low on their scritches quota.
A tiny little hug for Carrot.
Bigger hugs for the surgery-bound girls.
Hugs for everyone else, especially Amelia.
My aunt fell for the 2nd time in two weeks. She’s in the hospital again. This time they are saying hip replacement or bedridden.
Her four damned children couldn’t even be bothered to call me! Oh, you wanted to help her they said? Are they fucking serious! I gave up a talk with PZ to stay with her, and stayed with her every day while they worked. This is beyond my understanding. They know she is my last living aged relative.
And of course all I hear is for everything. Grrr!
/pissed off rant
Crossing everything I can cross for Carrot!
dianne, the question was sort of rhetorical, and aimed at the fact that people keep claiming that they want the “atheist movement” to focus on things other than social justice. On the other hand, those same people seem to have as their sole focus the silencing of people like Jen McCreight. Have they EVER been as angry at Christians or Muslims who hate and discriminate against atheists, as they are at fellow atheists who point out that we can do better as a community?
Patricia,
Oh no! Hugs!
This is lovely. A letter from Chris Kluwe to a clueless politician (this time the clueless politician is a Democrat) defends free speech, defends gay rights, and defends NFL players who speak out for gay rights. Kluwe defends Baltimore Ravens linebacker Brendon Ayanbadejo in particular. Points to Kluwe for creative obscenity.
Excerpts below:
Link.
Thanks Audley, hug needed.
This Aunt is my husbands blood aunt, and I think her kids expected me to abondon her when my husband died. HA! She has supported me more than anyone, and her wisdom is what helped me so much in my darkest hours. I’ll be staying with her again, I’m sure. Thank gawd! *rolls eyes*
Patricia, I’m sorry that you’re having to go through that bullshit. People are shit sometimes.
Patricia:
Your aunt sounds so awesome and I’m so sorry that she fell again.
What are the chances for a hip replacement to restore at least some of her quality of life or is it too early to know for sure?
So how can we tell when someone is going for a cheap thrill in writing or actually trying to portray the nastiness of people who torture?
If bodily fluids (urine, feces, blood, vomit) aren’t hitting the walls and flood, they are prettying it up too much. I say this based on my experience performing physical exams to document acts of torture in asylum seekers. Mostly from reading their affidavits, but some of the injuries couldn’t have occurred without blood spurting everywhere.
Patricia, sorry to hear about the difficulties of the aging aunt. I’m glad she has you to care for her.
I am reminded of relatives who are so tribal that, like yours, they think a divorce ends all friendships that may have been made within the tribe.
The other side of that coin are relatives who think one should spend time with them even though they are thoroughly disagreeable human beings.
GirlChild and I are glad that Zoe is doing well. She tells me she took the artist card to school to show off to her friends. The photograph is framed and on her wall.
The woman behind Smitten kitchen is brilliant. I love her recipes. Someone here recommended her blog. I don’t remember who it was, just that the recipe in question was about carrot pancakes. Thanks to that person!
I made this plum-almond tart today and now I’m eating my second slice. Lovely.
I see that against all my expectations, my multiple attempts at posting last night did not (yet) appear in a huge irritating block. Thus, trying again!
(where did my post go? I’ll try once more.)
I don’t know about that specifically but I *do* know that apparently the author, Terry Goodkind, asserts that “I’m not writing about fantasy. … I’m dealing with larger issues and the things that are central to all people.” Eyeroll. Also, ” I’m not writing fantasy. I’m accidentally published by a fantasy publisher so I get thrown in with that genre”.
(Here’s the interview. He’s pretty much a pompous Randian gasbag. His publicity photo really says it all.)
I can’t read books with unlikeable characters when the characters are unlikable because a) they are obviously hand puppets for vile author views and/or b) they are unlikeable because they are un-anything-able because they are not characters, they’re hand puppets. The Sword Of Truth series, the Left Behind books and all the Piers Anthony books I’ve ever read all fall into those categories.
I always thought they did it that way in order to keep the PG-13 rating.
Hugs for Patricia.
People can be terrible to their own family. My gran’s sister got talked into selling her apartment by her son. The money was supposed to go for a new bigger place where they and his wife would all live happily together.
It took them about a year and a half to settle her in a home. It was kind of a surprise since we thought they would do it even quicker.
The poor woman is miserable there.
This one is mostly is the Spokesgay’s fault.
Chigau, I am a very light sleeper with frequent insomnia. I take after my father. My mother, OTOH, could sleep through a war.
Tony, quoting Wikipedia:
But they have to suffer for the all important .
Chris Kluwe, in ImaginesABeach’s link:
♥
Audley:
I think William S. Burroughs would make great bedtime storytime for DF, don’t you?
Carlie:
Some people really don’t get anything that isn’t plain ol’ nuts and bolts and, what’s more, hate anything that isn’t plain ol’ nuts and bolts. They are tedious.
Patricia, argh. Sympathy.
Why am I having so much trouble posting? I had a long post about the Sword Of Truth series author and what a git he is, and it just will. not. post.
cicely:
Funny thing on two counts: I have loved yard sales and bin sales since I was a wee thing, but until I got really interested in vintage fashion lately I didn’t find all this good stuff. I would be reading along some vintage fashion blog going puh, I have no idea where they live, but there’s never stuff that good at sales around here. Then I started going out and looking and suddenly, blammo. I don’t know if it’s because my eye is more educated now or what. I didn’t change tactics any, except for being more upfront about suggesting a low price for things rather than asking for a price from the seller, which does affect how much I pay but not whether the things I find are good.
Also, it’s pretty time consuming but I can never think of it as work. I seriously love estate sales and I think I’ve been to two in my life that were creepy or otherwise unenjoyable. Even if the only thing at a sale is Barbie toys and Blair clothes, they have a cute dog or pretty roses or something. I love it to death. Maybe someday I will be able to spin it into a real paying-bills type job instead of a hobby job.
Joe @54: Yeah, the various dramas over Rebecca Watson and various other women in the atheist movement kind of put to rest any illusions I might have had about atheists being more moral people than believers. Probably just as well, but still always sad to see an illusion ruined. Also sad that people can’t be better to each other, even when they know what’s at stake without denial.
Patricia, sorry about your aunt!
Ms. Daisy Cutter,
Nooooo!
Now you’ve forced me to go to that place to see which progressive positions she’s renounced in the name of the pope.
Beatrice:
I made the carrot pancakes from Smitten Kitchen a while back and OMG SO FUCKING GOOD.
Daisy:
*snortle!*
Smitten Kitchen’s latke recipe is the one I used to do latkes for the first time and of course it spawned a lifelong addiction.
OTOH I have never been able to get the 123 cake to work satisfactorily. Of course the problem could very well be on my end.
Thanks everyone! It’s so good to have a place to rest when everything goes hen shit.
Audley – Her hip replacement is going to be very risky, she has a pacemaker.
I keep and re-read my books.
I learned the hard way to never un-hand a book if I can possibly avoid it by any means short of human sacrifice; it inevitably happens that the book I safely assumed I’d “never want to read ever again” begins to demand to be re-read…and I don’t…have…it. This is a particular sort of frantic-feeling frustration (crossed with a feeling similar to the compulsion to stick my tongue into a recently-emptied tooth socket) that applies to nothing else, and won’t go away until I find another copy, which is sometimes damned difficult.
Which is why pretty much every more-or-less flat surface in our house is covered with stacks of books.
I never want to have to move, ever again.
–
*snortle!!!*
–
Hoping it works out well at the vets for poor Carrot.
–
That’s no excuse!
–
Sounds like the “pop-ups” we get here in MO.
–
*hug* for Patricia.
–
kristenc, Misattribution Error @67. I don’t remember who said it, but I know ’twasn’t me.
–
Patricia:
Oh geez. *moar hugs!*
kristinc – if you come across hats in decent condition for a reasonable price, I will “click to purchase now” when you put them on ebay. Assuming you annouce it here, of course.
Oh *thanks* for linking to Smitten Kitchen. She writes about food like the Harlot does about knitting.
“We’ll be at this all day.”
/League of Extraordinary Gentlemen
Hugs to Patricia – that is so shitty :(((
I hope an op does prove feasible, and goes well.
random: after Jen, the spoofers have hit Greta’s and Jason’s.
https://proxy.freethought.online/lousycanuck/2012/09/06/comparing-movement-atheism-and-catholicism-on-matters-of-misogyny/#comment-79976
…I am so pissed off right now.
Pteryxx,
What the ever lovin’ fuck? That’s just… ugh.
Thanks! :)
Well this is turning out to be a completely shitty day. My very nice church lady neighbor just came over in a total outrage and demanded that I remove my GAY bumpersticker.
It didn’t end well, if it’s still on my car this weekend when her innocent grand children arrive, she will never speak to me again.
I’m so thrilled to be the target of so much christian love.
PZ would never say that about Sallystrange.
Hrm…
But can you count on her to keep this promise? Seems to me it still might be best to ask that she put it in writing.
(/I keed. My sympathies.)
…and nothing of value was lost!
Patricia,
Because I am a mean and spiteful person, I would put so many more GAY bumper stickers on my car. Rainbow flags galore! One of those stupid stick-figure families with two daddies! Human Rights Campaign stickers!
My car would look terrible, but boy, would I ever be smug.
Whoops! Fairly sure it was someone with a C, at least :P
ImaginesABeach, I jussst sold a perfect tan “Doeskin Felt” ladies’ bowler, if I had known I would have saved it for you. The only hat I have right now is a genuine Tyrolean hat, gray wool, no feathers or embellishments (but a loop in the hat bad for securing them), and it needs a steaming to smooth it out, but otherwise it’s in great condition. If you’re interested you need only holler.
Today I am gently washing (in the bathtub) a bright salmon pink, Jackie O style, wool coat from Frederick & Nelson Seattle with no flaws but a loose facing and one missing button. Squee.
I sporfled out my smoothie :D
Hrm…
Now, sure, bumper stickers all over your car, that’s probably bad for the resale value…
(/… a flash mob w/ rainbow banners, arranged to show up the same day the grans do, on the other hand…)
Patricia:
I had that happen with a rocketship-fish thing. Someone at my old employer demanded I take it off because it was an affront to Christians. She even went so far as to take it to HR – who promptly told her to stop harassing me or they’d have to take official action*.
The only gay stickers I’ve ever used are the pink triangle (which almost no one “gets”) and a long-form rainbow that usually gets stuck at the bottom of my rear windshield (and almost no one notices). It’s not that I’m hiding or anything – I just prefer the way they look :)
The fish was pretty prominent, though. Someone at my new job eventually ripped it off :( I sincerely hope it was a patient and not a coworker.
* I disliked a lot about that job, but the HR folks were (and are) awesome – I’m still friends with a few, years later.
Patricia, I’d recommend these three stickers, myself (despite the misspelling in the last one). And maybe this one for the biologists here.
(Moar.)
Sorry about that, Kristin. :D
I have a digital cuttlefish sticker on my car!
I love it because I know what it stands for, it looks cool, and no fundie in the world where I am will ever figure it out, but anyone who frequents FtB who sees it would. Heh.
AJ,
I don’t know about Patricia, but my car has little-to-no resale value. So, I’d be perfectly happy to sticker the hell out of the rear door. :)
(I have no stickers at the moment, but I’m thinking about getting one of the t rex eating the Jesus fish ones.)
Also: magnets.
Always a possibility.
Audley, how about this one?
Daisy:
Ha! I saw that as I placed my order for the t rex decal. :D
I want this bumper sticker
We Want Jelly Donuts
There’s always this bumper sticker.
:)
My favourite magnetic ribbon is still this one.
Well, there’s only one reasonable response to this.
Put another, even bigger gay bumpersticker on your car right beside the old one.
Love it!
I gave peas a chance.
They, and I, blew chunks.
–
trinioler:
aaaaaaaaaaah!
That. word.
It burns.
I’m meeeeeeeeeeeeeeelting.
Good evening
Ing
The thing about the “women in refrigerators” trope is that the torture and murder of the female characters is just a cheap trick to make the male lead suffer/do something/seek revenge.
I don’t think that anybody is arguing that there mustn’t be horrible things in fiction or that women must never be the victims of those deeds.
Th point is that they need to be written about the woman.
Like with the two Hermiones:
In the book the passage was still cruel, and for children very tough, but really, she was the one who still kicked ass. Her character showed strength and cunning and yes, the torture itself was about a desire to hurt her.
In the movie the scene was about how the poor boys were suffering from somebody breaking their toy. (There’s an interview out there in which JKR describes how hard she had to fight in order to keep her strong female characters in the battle for Hogwarts.)
beatrice
Nope, his slot is always bright and empty
Patricia
I’m sorry to hear about your aunt. Hope they can help her.
Caine
Fingers are crossed for Carrot
+++
Oh dear.
My BFF is going to be a grandma and her son in law is beginning to turn gender-conservative. They couldn’t agree on anything at their trip to Ikea (not knowing yet what it will be) because according to him a boy can’t have a fucking white wardrobe and a girl can’t have light blue fabric. At one point his wife exclaimed “Oh lord, please drop brains or stones but aim well”.
It think I’ll buy Delusions of Gender for the dad to be.
There#s a big fat fly zooming noisily around me. It drives me nuts.
Patricia:
That’s some fucking nerve. As if you’re supposed to bow down to her wishes because it makes her uncomfortable. Nevermind that it’s YOUR car.
Cup?
I know it’s scary, but you don’t have to worry. There was no water in it.
:)
Audley:
Oh, way to just wave something like that in a bigots face. You’re just so mean :)
I think Patricia *should* remove the bumper sticker.
And replace it with a pic of two women or two guys kissing :)
Patricia, imagine bringing your neighbor over to show her you’ve removed the sticker, only to see the shock on her face…
Does not compute
And in the quite likely event that at least one of her grandchildren is gay, they’ll know they’re not alone and there’s a supportive community waiting for them.
I read that as ‘masturbation’ error…
****
Audley:
Really…gay stickers around the back door…?
Meaning: don’t be silenced.
But hugs and support, because conflict is never pleasant.
Not that it should matter what color wardrobe you get for a boy or a girl, but when did white become synonymous with girls?
You know what color all infants should wear? Who gives a shit, they only wear it a couple of times before they outgrow it and it will instantly be stained by baby food, puke, poop, and mystery stains that will keep you up nights, you lucky new parents you!
I have no idea.
I think that white is a stupid colour for a small kiddie wardrobe (unless you hand them the finger paint straight away) anyway, but nobody can really understand what his problem is.
He seems to really suck at such things anyway since he chose a dark brown fabric…
Not that it should matter what color wardrobe you get for a boy or a girl, but when did white become synonymous with girls?
White is for girls because then you can pressure them into sitting still to avoid staining their clothes rather than going and playing actively.
I will say that my kid loves white. She has a home tie-dye kit and white makes the best base for using it.
Yay!!! Judge Judy is FINALLY in widescreen HD! Trashy hateful people suing each other over cars from the early 1990s and/or bail money has never looked so good!
I thought white was the best for little kids’ clothes because you can wash it in hotter water than colors.
Tony:
*snerk!* Well, what door would you put rainbow stickers on?
Meaning babies.
Martin Amis wrote a piece for The Daily Beast on God, Money, and What’s Wrong with the GOP.
Excerpt:
I ran into one of those insurance representatives disguised as doctors when my father was dying. She did dress like a doctor. She didn’t plainly identify herself as being from the insurance company. She did advise and push for my father to leave the hospital and go home before he was ready (he ended up coming back, by ambulance) one day later. She may have responsible for the fact that he died instead of recovering.
I should have sued her and her company after the fact, but I didn’t find out she wasn’t a doctor until almost a year later.
More excerpts from Martin Amis:
a professional stratum now so frankly gangsterish that it disguises debt collectors as doctors, and fans them out over the A and E units of America’s hospitals.
This is the sort of thing that makes me feel downright stabby at times. If the statute of limitations is up for suing, how about finding a journalist looking for a story. I’d like to know which insurance company did this (or which do this) and I’m sure others would too.
Nick Gotts
Yes, reality is much more complex and interesting than what my school textbooks claimed :-)
— — — — — —
“stream of consciousness”
Van Vogt, the SF author, crammed in every single idea he got while writing a book. If he had been more restrictive the results would have been much improved.
— — — — —
“women in refrigerators” trope
Val McDermid’s “Wire In The Blood” series is an equal-oppporunity abattoir. Robson Green makes his way through heaps of tortured carcasses of both genders, with murderers of both genders. Actually this is one of the few TV series adressing the subject that feels OK despite the horrors. And the tension is mostly psychological.
— — — — — —
Interesting factoids:
“Low cost pain drug -oxyphenbutazone- can kill resistant tuberculosis” (in lab) http://medicalxpress.com/news/2012-09-pain-drug-resistant-tuberculosis.html
“Mushroom-derived compound (polysaccharopeptide, or PSP) lengthens survival in dogs with cancer” http://phys.org/news/2012-09-mushroom-derived-compound-lengthens-survival-dogs.html
Dealing with hemangiosarcoma is awful. So far, the only marginally effective drug is one that has awful side effects (it is called “the red devil”). That is why I decided to put down my previous tomcat without trying medication.
Thanks everybody for the bumber sticker ideas! Of course I’m not removing it. My car is a 94 Sable, nobody would even steal the hideous old boat if I left the keys in it.
The other two stickers say “Have you threatened your child with eternal damnation today?” and “What an imaginary friend we have in jesus”.
I could use a pro-pea sticker though…
Warning: P Z has installed some subliminal cues at the Thunderdome thread that makes (most of) the writers nice and polite. Or maybe they have overdosed on cute kitty pictures. It’s scaaary.
So, we all remember that Paul Ryan lied about his best time in running a marathon. He claimed he ran somewhere in the two hours and high-fifties range, when actually he ran a 4 hour and one-minute marathon.
Harry Reid, he of the mild manner and soft voice, must be loving this. “Reid’s office later produced documents showing that he finished the 1972 Boston Marathon in an impressive three hours and 16 minutes.”
@ Lynna, OM:
That’s a horrible story. I second the journalist idea, if you have the interest and capacity.
I have a similar story from my cousins, who fortunately managed to nip it in the bud. Basically insurance huckster attempting to limit amount of pain medication to a woman (their mother) in the last stages of renal failure. Heartless simulacra of a human being, that fraudulent jerk. Actually said something on the lines of “but she might get better!”
Threadrupt this afternoon.
FSMdamnit. I love the Atheism+ forums. I really do. But…we’ve been facing a barrage of silencing tactics as part and parcel with everything else we’ve been facing the past year. WHY ARE THERE NO STICKY THREADS DETAILING WHAT SILENCING TACTICS LOOK LIKE OR STRONG RULES AGAINST THEIR USE?
I’m just going to leave the comment I posted on Ophelia’s “More” thread (about stepping up our game in the face of Jen and others leaving) here:
We seriously need to do better at this.
-gives Lynna massive, massive hugs-
Seriously, fuck privatization.
My sticker simply says:
Gay marriage doesn’t scare me.
No health care does!
That’s it. What the hell is SO offensive about that? If I was really a spiteful person I could find out which of the 1000 churches here that she goes to and park my heap in their lot. *snort*
birger:
Dare I ask how big the book is?
I’m trying to imagine all the ideas one could have while writing; then trying to incorporate them into a book, in an an organic manner.
Patricia, *hugses*
As for the PZ spoof, PZ would never use a smiley, he hates the things.
Okay, back home. All the girls are fine, Zoe is on special watch due to a reaction to the anesthesia (just like Rubin, looks like she’s been licking toads), but they all did just great on the surgery. Angie looked at Zoe’s colon prior to the surgery and said it looks fantastic and it’s populated by normal little rat turds, so a serious YAY! for Zoe.
Now for the bad news…Carrot. It doesn’t look good for our sweet little Carrot. We’ve got one more thing to try and if that doesn’t work, we’ll have to euthanize. His colon is not in good shape and we can’t get the shit out because he’s also full of gas. So, Angie tried everything she could, gave him an injectable stimulant laxative, gave us a stool softener for him and we have him on infant gas relief drops, which will hopefully start a fart train going. So, we’ll see, but it’s not terribly hopeful at this point.
Careful little cuddles for Carrot. I hope he gets better.
Glad to hear everyone else is doing fine.
Oh Caine. Poor Carrot.
Poor Carrot, I hope he pulls through!
I read cicely’s “misattribution error” as “masturbation error” as well. I read it a few times, trying to decide if she was complaining about her own technique or kristinc’s technique.
I’m happy about Zoe but sad about Carrot.
And, just because I need to make the thread all about me, kristinc, if you want to sell your hat, I’m happy to buy it. GirlChild has decided she loves hats (maybe because it rhymes with “rats”?) and I thought I would buy a bunch for her for Christmas.
Well, it is certainly a fabulous hat with lots of potential for sass :) Why don’t you email me at shewearscombatboots at that g service everyone knows, and we’ll hammer it out.
Every time I see “Smitten Kitchen” I think “Risen Mitten” and then I get all sad because IANTO. I WILL NEVER FORGIVE YOU RUSSELL T DAVIES.
Also, so sorry about Carrot. :(
More on the Wil Wheaton love train: today he talks about depression.
Caine: I’m sorry that Carrot isn’t doing well, but relieved to hear that Zoe and the rest of the girls are fine. Give some belly rubs to Mallory for me, and a very gentle chin scratch to Carrot.
Glad for Zoe, but I’m so sorry about Carrot, Caine. Fingers still crossed, but he’s certainly had every possible care. :(
Well he’s fortunate to be cared for by someone who knows what they’re doing and who won’t let him suffer. Hope you don’t mind if I send some cuddles for all of them.
Thank you all. ♥
Scritches, pets, and love delivered to all the ratties. Zoe is fully recovered from the anesthesia and Carrot is happily on top of the rat pile (draped across Havelock Daddy’s neck) having a sleep.
Caine:
Damn. I’m sorry to hear about Carrot.
****
You know, if you’re in the Smitten Kitchen and use your Risen Mitten, one won’t have a Masturbation Error…
Opposablethumbs:
Not at all. Thank you. ♥
Jesus fuck I almost had to maybe shoot somebody’s dog.
There’s something WRONG with pit bull owners, because every other dog breed owner seems to understand the need for leashes and collars and chains and such, the ONLY sort of dog I ever see running loose in the neighborhood are ratty fucking pits. One of them came up on my porch when we were taking our dog out for a walk. My wife managed to get Ginger back inside and the door shut, before the pit grabbed her or came in the house. That dog belongs to one of the neighbors down the street, it is chained up outside 24/7 as far as I can tell, and I doubt it has been socialized AT ALL. I would have gone over and said something, but I’m so pissed off that I am better off staying inside.
@ Setár:
You’re right… I (and others) should have been weighing in on the A+ economics forums. I’ll plead limited time at the moment.
I’ll freely confess that a topic named “Overthrowing Capitalism” just sort of makes me throw my hands up. It’s such a bombastic title that I really had no time/interest in dealing with it, though I knew from the post count that things were getting heated.
I don’t know, for me the thread rapidly degenerated into magisterial debates about ‘ought’. Sure, there’s a time ‘n place, but I’m far more interested in direct action at this moment, which is why my limited active involvement on the forums has been on the 40daysoflife crap and reading about more meta issues as the forums develop.
Reading over that, I feel like it’s being dismissive of your concern there. Really not trying to be, but not sure how else to phrase it. But suffice it to say that I find the Lounge much more conducive to interaction than I do the A+ forums at the moment. Again, not trying to be hostile to you OR the forums… I just don’t have the engagement energy at the moment. I hope I’m being clear? I’m really tired, so if I’m not… willing to clarify.
Aw, poor little Carrot. I don’t envy you having to make the ending decision either. That’s always SO hard.
My problem was that I was the only one to dispense with that damn debate. It’s not about ‘ought’, it’s about what can we, as a society, do to make sure we don’t leave anyone behind, because we can see that many people are indeed suffering and something must be done to help them. On that basic point, neoliberal/libertarian/small-government apologists fail because they are trying to argue that society doesn’t need to do anything.
This is a social justice forum and we still had people denying that the social justice issue even existed. Well, not quite denying it…but we don’t need to do anything because the market will fix it (or the proletarian revolution, if you’re the Marxist in there). And FSM forbid we try, because then the rich will just Go Galt and we’ll be left with nothing!
-sigh- Case in point for me tearing my hair out over how poorly discussions of classism are going, and why we need to do better on silencing tactics:
Even France’s “Socialist” President is doing austerity. Yes, I know, his hands are tied by the ECB, but that in itself seems to me a problem. At least, if you think that rigging the system in order to force neoliberal austerity is a problem…
Absolutely agree. I’ve just had a lot on my plate and really had no interest in dealing with people who thought social justice and libertarian free hand crap went together. Kudos to you that you felt able to jump into it!
I kind of hope that the A+ forums will shake out into a “material action” group at some point soon. Justice and freedom emerge simultaneously, can’t jump from point A to point Z, and other platitudes here.
But, really, I just don’t have the emotional energy to deal with the tripe I saw in that forum. I’ve wasted enough time in my life arguing with people who have faith in economic models of every persuasion… and really, creationist-level economics threads piss me off.
THE FREE HAND JUST BURNED THAT BUSH! Posh.
Again, really tired, and if I don’t have dinner on the table in 15 minutes my partner will make me finish cooking it WITH PENALTY or I’d be more eloquent/specific.
My Rage of the Day:
To have the unbridled gall to call this a social work class??!!
Patrick:
‘with penalty’?
Sleeping on the couch/floor?
No back massage?
I need a fucking punching bag.
Between reading about the damn Franciscan University and now Wooly Bumblebee’s post attacking Jen’s father, I’m riled up. Massively. I don’t think an entire kitchen full of broken dishes could make me feel better.
Those people.
Y’know what?
I don’t even want to understand them anymore.
I just want them gone. Fly off to some deserted island.
Go live underground.
Just go somewhere far away from the rest of humanity so we don’t have to exposed to you venom.
It’s bad enough to face crap like this from creationists, anti-gay bigots and those who want us dead, but to face this shit from people who are supposed to be ON OUR SIDE. This is just too goddamned much.
When is this going to stop?
When will they have their fill?
@ Tony:
I’m already in a world of hurt for failing to provide fresh produce. Don’t give her ideas. :)
Those people…
They don’t hate the politicians shitting on atheists. They don’t hate Catholic priests raping children. They don’t hate cultures that enslave and mutilate women. They don’t hate scammers killing people by convincing them to buy quackery instead of real medicine. They don’t hate the people who start wars or blow up clinics or torture and kill people for being witches. They don’t fucking care about ANY OF THAT AT ALL.
They hate Jen McCreight for saying that they aren’t perfect just because they aren’t religious.
Patricia:
Yes, we were just talking about it. Carrot is on a pillow on Mister’s lap and we’re trying to talk, but doing more crying. Neither one of us (or our vet) thinks he has very long to live as it stands.
Caine :(
I’m very sorry to hear about Carrot, Caine. Nature surely isn’t kind to cognitively sophisticated animals. :(
Oh, and open question in response to birgerjohanssen talking about Coriolus Versicolor way up there: It’s not the same kind of cancer as the one in the clinical trial, but being that I recognize the hell out of this fungus and am likely to be able to find it, what do you all think about me trying it on the elderly golden retriever a bit? Apparently it also boosts immune systems and has no adverse side effects, so should I or shouldn’t I?
Caine – It’s going to be tough regardless. I usually spend three days and nights sobbing until I vomit. That seems to be my bodys limit.
Tony – come sit by me, I’m having sangria and contemplating my next shocking bumper sticker. I’ll share.
PatrickG – Oh dear. Well you must have a can of peas somewhere.
*runs like hell*
Caine – So so sorry.
Patricia – Sorry about your aunt’s fall. : ( My great aunt passed away today. Aunts are precious people.
Patricia:
Sure, I love™ Sangria!
Just don’t sneak any little green fuckers (that’s how I’ve heard someone refer to peas) into the tasty beverage…
Portia:
I’m sorry to hear about your great aunt :(
*hugs* for Aunties and ratties.
Portia – Oh no, I’m sorry to hear that. All of mine are gone, and now it’s my turn to be a great Aunty. My three little great neices expect great adventures out of me, and boy do they get some dozys! Hopefully they will remember me me with smirks on their faces.
@ Patricia, OM:
Hah, very cute. But no, she was very understanding of the fact that I misremembered our produce section…. Long day and all that.
Unless “can of peas” means something I’m not aware of? ;)
Tony and Patricia, thanks. Sorry to jump in the thread with my sad. I wrote that earlier comment during a phone conversation in which I subsequently got dumped. (He takes long pauses, if I don’t do something else during them, I lose my mind). This has not been a good day.
Doesn’t everything?
I don’t know about you, but “can of peas” sounds particularly threatening!
Ok, some good news:
Also, my bad for failing to read around comments directed at me, I feel somewhat ashamed for complaining about culinary difficulties in the context of more serious conversations. :(
Can of
peasPEACE…PatrickG – Pharyngula is infested with pea haters. Led by a pea slanderer of epic notoriety, blf. Depending upon your opinion of the humble, gentle pea, it is either fine to assume you would have such a treasure, or a grave insult to your pantry.
I am a peaist and blf is pealess. Strong opinions have been hurled!
Then I must stridently contend that those who hate peas are filled with hatred. For peas are the medium of our deliverance!
Okay people. Having been given permission by the Boss, I’m going to dye some or all of my hair purple.
And then do a faux-hawk.
SO!
Do I do all of my hair purple? Some? How much? What pattern? YOU CHOOSE!
No peas! May the evil monstrosities wither!
Patrick:
You used to know the truth.
You have been corrupted by the Dark Side.
There is still a chance.
Renounce the dreaded pea.
It is for rats only.
Humans are above such PEAtty things…
Y’all need some happies.
Otter and baby! Audio warning – loud seagull is loud, but it kept following me.
:( :( :(
–
My technique is just fine, thank you; however (all the TMI around here notwithstanding) I know nothing whatsoever about kristinc’s. And I’m good with that; her masturbatory technique is entirely her own affair.
;)
–
No Apeasment!
(And no mint in the peas; you can’t salvage the peas (always and forever small green pellets of EVIL that they are) and it’s a criminal waste of perfectly good mint.)
–
trinolier: purple over dead black?
–
Also, sad for carrot. I hope he gets better. :(
@Patrick
Then I am filled with hatred, which leads to the dark side of the force. The dark side of the force has all the cool powers. Therefore not eating peas is cooler. QED.
Repost from LousyCanuck’s place:
People might consider changing their passwords, too. If you’ve been using some low security who-cares password for posting on blogs, it’s time to reconsider. If your password is really common, the trolls might break it with a few guesses and that would be bad, mmkay? Some regular posters have been targetted, not just bloggers.
Examples of bad ones: your user name, password, letmein, 123456, pirate, ninja, monkey, qwerty, qazwsx
Try this for more thoughts:
http://www.google.com/search?q=most+common+passwords
—
Also, do not use your username as your display name. Every little bit helps.
Oh no! Poor little Carrot!
*gentle scritchies* for him and *hugs* for Caine.
@Alethea
I can’t believe people have actually used those passwords… *headdesk*
Now see here! The Peoples Pea Party isn’t going to stand for this. You pea, I pea, we all pea together. Splitters!
cicely – *gasp* What, withholding tender sprigs of mint from the lovely peas? I’m shocked, shocked I say. What ever will be next, cream and pearl onions pea less?
You see PatrickG? You can never tell where a pea less pantry will turn up. Gentle soul that he is, PZ allows such hooligans to scorn peas freely. *sniff*
cicely, my hair is very dark brown and thick. I’ll be getting it cut for the appropriate hairstyle.
I’ve decided on solid dark purple.
Wait a minute, that’s the same code as I have for my luggage…
Annnnd. . .AronRa misses the boat yet again. He doesn’t understand that, yes, dear, we do want to tell misogynist assholes such as Penn Jillette to fuck right off:
Fuck. Thanks, FTB, for not allowing me to use the preview function.
Everything after the linked portion is me and shouldn’t be blockquoted.
Oooh, Josh, I do love me some hatin’ on Penn Jillette. *little hearts*
Oh, yeah. If it wasn’t obvious by now, Facebook has an anti-liberal bias.
—
Actually, parroting privileged bullshit about how the market will fix all our problems is exactly why they should be kicked out.
To Pea or not to Pea.
Nope, that’s not the question.
The question is how best to put them icky things to use. They aren’t fit for human consumption.
Maybe instead of rocks in a slingshot, we can use peas…
Agreed, Setar. See my comments on that thread if you’re interested.
I also commented, considering that I’ve seen one “conservative” and a couple of neoliberals on the Atheism+ forums. The conservative didn’t want to discuss anything about whether people like him would be accepted, and the neoliberals weren’t too keen on discussing their ideology either. Seemed like all they wanted was to barge in and make sure we weren’t questioning the Temple of the Invisible Hand.
@Patricia, OM:
Never fear, for I shall never bow to these PEASants who apPEASse the mighty PEAS-Z.
@ Josh, Official SpokesGay:
I’m not sure I quite agree with you. I read Aron Ra as saying nothing more than that we could not strip the title of Atheist from people who are not members of Atheism+.
Naturally, we can exclude them from A+. But as one of the people who thought Carrier went a bit over the edge… can we continue this discussion? For the record, I don’t want the A+ movement to engage with assholes, but I don’t see Aron Ra’s comments as excluding that possibility.
Penn & Teller? Fuck ’em.
And what the fuck does “sexually explicit women” mean? Do I want to know?
Just keep him the fuck away from me.
Says who? And who’s “we”? And what is this nonsense about “being elitist”?
@ Setar: Echoing what I said to Tony:
Not A+ pins. Just A-pins. One can indeed be an atheist and an asshole. One more A and that group can issue cards for insurance and roadside assistance. :P
@ Setar:
Addressing the additional comment you made, I find the inclusion of neoliberal Randianism quite disturbing on the A+ forums. It seems contrary to the whole concept of social justice, but I have no idea how to combat it effectively. Partially, that’s me just being inept at forum communication; a lot of the problem is the viral pervasiveness of the idea.
Sure, but I don’t know what else there is to say? How did Carrier go over the edge. What did he say, specifically, that was beyond the pale?
Maybe we could get some Mormons to baptize Ayn Rand, just to make extra-sure her corpse is good and disowned. Because it makes a lot of fucking sense to bring her up in the context of the current atheist movement.
Actually, I have. Well, not qazwsx but I did use “0okm-pl,” for a while. (First char is zero.) Looks good, but no! Type it on an English language keyboard if you don’t get why not :)
I have always had careful safe passwords for some things (laptop, gmail, bank, ebay etc) but for some random website that wants you to register to comment? Whatever, who cares! I’ve got more careful now, and I also tend to use mailinator for a lot of required registration sites. (FtB has my real email.)
Josh – I saw that fuckwit calling you a dick – after I had been composing my message to AronRa. I really don’t want to see him screw up on A+.(AronRa, not the fuckwit)
Patricia-
Yeah, I don’t really care about the fuckwit. I’ve been called worse.
But if you want your message to get through to AronRa, you might want to be a little more specific. Not trying to tell you what to do, mind, it’s just that what you wrote is open to any interpretation.
You lining up those angry laying hens?
PatrickG #200:
Nor do I other than to take a leaf out of PZ’s book and call it bullshit on its face. It’s harder with neoliberals, though, because they tend to have sophisticated
theology“economics” behind them.I’ve posted a thread on the A+ forums attempting to repudiate libertarianism, any support (especially in case of free marketeers) would be appreciated.
—
Josh #201:
I’m at a loss here too. Based on my understanding, he said that there exist unreasonable people who should be kept out of A+. He said the same thing about harassers and their apologists during the harassment debacle, so to me this just sounds like the regressives trying to use their “moderate” voices to open the “big tent” back door.
@ Josh:
It’s a rough question for me, Josh. I really mean that.
On the one hand, I’m a relative newcomer to a group that has been dealing with a whole lot of shit. On the other, I’ve felt very welcome here and I very much appreciate that my viewpoint is either very welcome and/or contemptuously slapped down (and the spectrum in between).
I really mean that, btw. I love that I can come here and meet approbation on the one hand and opprobrium on the other. The only thing that matters is the content I type, and I have to defend myself accordingly.
That said, I felt Carrier was putting out a call to people who weren’t even aware of the divisions, who hadn’t been paying attention, who had no idea what the fuck was going on. In his original post, he used a “With us or against us” construct that he later revised after a number of negative comments from fellow FTB-ers.
As a newcomer to this situation (reading since just before Tf00t, for the record), I found that offputting, even though I was familiar with the context. I absolutely can understand why he said it, but I found it a poor choice of terms.
I don’t like binary constructs in general, and I felt Carrier, well, carried it too far there. He continued to defend it in comments for quite some time before revising his stance.
@ Setár:
Excellent idea to start a new thread on a new topic, as the old one was wrapped in its own sort of warped zone. I’ve posted a reply, not particularly well sourced, but I think at least a good backup to what you’re trying to do.
Thoughts on how to progress further?
PatrickG, I understand that. It’s not easy as a relative newcomer. . there’s tons of backstory.
I guess I’d say—imagine you weren’t new to it. Make an effort not to hear “he’s talking to me” when you consider something like Carrier’s post. Put it in the abstract while imagining Carrier is talking to a group of people who’ve been putting up with unbelievable shit for more than a year.
Because, really, he’s not talking to you. There’s no reason for you to know all the history right away, of course. But that also means it’s not reasonable for you to personalize this and act as if you have a right to be offended. Why would you assume it’s about PatrickG? It isn’t.
I’m not trying to be nasty, please know. But you don’t really get to personalize it and act as if you, PatrickG, have been called out.
Can you see how that’s not really on target?
Josh – Oh, it seemed clear to me.
I have a very simple vision of A+, it’s those of us ready to move on passed the stage of atheism, although I admit to a certain fondness for bible quoting to rip the guts out of a fundie. Richard Carrier, PZ, and Greta have all said it better than I can. AronRa seemed to waiver. Am I wrong? Because I sure the hell am on board with A+.
So are the Pullets.
Shorter me: you don’t have an ethical claim to be put-off when someone addresses a long-standing problem that pre-dates you. If you expect them to take into consideration Patrick’s Newbie Feelings you’re being really self-centered and unreasonable. You’re not entitled to that and it’s important to get that out of your head.
I’m not telling you anything I haven’t told myself. We’ve all been there, thinking it’s all about us when it isn’t. It’s the human condition. But it’s dumb, so get over it:)
You’re not wrong, Patricia. You’re totally right. I’m only saying that your very brief comment over at AronRa’s doesn’t say any of that.
Now where’s mah eggs?
Oh, no poor Carrot! =( Extra hugs for you Caine and scratches for her.
This also makes me realize I’ve been a terrible virtural rat owner. Little One has been on it look at Chas II pictures, thinking about him and making up play places and such. Yet I’ve failed to even pass on the extra love from us to Chas II! =( Please give him extra whatever the mischievous little devil likes, hugs, scratches, rides, food.
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I’m sorry about your Aunt’s fall Patricia. =( *hugs* if you want them.
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I’m so with with Josh about AronRa and Carrior.
*clenched tentacle salute* Fuck yes to this.
Or some of us mislead gullible fools for half a lifetime. And there is where his remarks become the pearls of great price. A+ is the idea whose time has come. I don’t want to grow old and die in fundie land.
Thanks JAL, all hugs appreciated!
Thank goodness I’m already super paranoid about passwords.
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Joe,
Lightweight. I have like 1000 with my Nook and electronically. ;)
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dianne (second quote)
If I recall correctly Joe Abercrombie showed all of this in this Law Trilogy and stand alone books. But I can’t recall specifics, but I remember the blood and piss part, and I think people shitting when they die…
It’s still totally for entertainment and to make a statement. The series is another one of those “no moral highgrounds, everyone is morally grey” like we talking about earlier.
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kristinc,
Oh yeah, he’s a total git. No doubt about that. I wish I had looked into it more but got a free copy of the first book in the Sword of Truth and just went with it. Now I totally see where the author is just trying to jump out the pages and using the books as a platform for his stupidity like libertarianism. I still enjoyed the series mostly though.
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dianna
Pfffft. If have they never met a child? No matter what my child wears it gets dirty and stained and played in and lived in. That’s the entire point and I don’t feel bad one bit about her clothes. She’ll grow out of them too quickly anyways to fuss and feel bad over stains.
Wait you have conservatives and neo-liberals in A+?
posting on the A+ forum.
The moderators over there let an unfortunate amount of JAQing go on.
I’m about to head to bed, but I really wanted to respond to this, as someone who wholeheartedly identifies with the A+ community, and has already been motivated to organize a real-world action in response to the call for Atheism Plus.*
What do you do with people who are new to it? What do you do with people who don’t get the backstory? Seriously, Carrier’s post really put me off. Not ‘off’ of the motivations for A+. Not ‘off’ of the realizations of such.
I submit that if people who are organizing actions against 40daysforlife (see my A+ comment on that, I can link later if you want) are turned off by all-or-nothing comments, A+ won’t go far. Your mileage may vary, and I won’t go away if you dismiss me. I’m here for the long-haul, but I’m still very annoyed by absolutist rhetoric.
I look forward to continuing this conversation over the long-term, but for now…. damn it’s late.
Re-reading this comment, I do understand that I’m coming into a situation with a lot of history. I must offer my opinion that others have not done quite so much research. I lurked at Pharyngula for 6 months, and read quite a number of blogs in the meantime. I sincerely doubt most people put in that level of effort and time. Again, I don’t mean to discount your experience, but please recognize that not all noobs are equal. :/
*I really mean that. A+ has inspired me to get off my ass and do something local. I’m inspired, and I really care.
Josh – My new comment to AronRa clears up my point.
You’re in it because literally your life could depend on the scene changing in America. I’m in it for the lives of my little great neices. We have to see each other across the street and see our cause is the same. That’s what I don’t get, why the push back against A+?
My life has gotten harder since I became more than a prayer mumbling turnip counter.
This is just such a superficial complaint. What is wrong with it in this case?
No, don’t just repeat yourself and say you “don’t like it,” that it was a “poor choice,” that it went “too far,” that you were “put off,” etc. That adds nothing whatsoever.
What is wrong with it and how is it wrong?
I’m getting wicked tired too, so pardon me for bowing out of conversations for tonight. We can take it up again.
Any of you on Twitter, though—please show @jennifurret (Jen McCreight) some love. She’s taken a beating from the haters and they’re now attacking her parents.
PatrickG – A+ has inspired me too. So have many of the commenters here.
Despite you blasphemous pea haters spouting abominations!
Ing #217: Some have popped up on the Atheism+ forums; one was bloviating about “acceptance” and a few others (and one Marxist who buys into their bullshit but just says that it’s why we need proletarian revolution) have been trying to shut down actual discussion of their dogma. I made that thread in an effort to choke it off right away.
Here’s the thread where the neoliberals (and Marxist) were in the most. There’s another I can pull up if you’re interested but it’s a bit dead, and the one about ‘will all you librulz accept little conservative me’ is definitely dead.
Dammit, I missed Grimm.
Goodnight sweethearts.
Sigh, I knew I shouldn’t have checked this. I’ll check back in and make sure I link to specific comments, but if you haven’t read Carrier’s comment thread, you won’t have any idea what I’m talking about. :P
Look, Carrier went really far. He said that if you didn’t agree with A+, you were wrong and beyond the pale. Read his comment thread. It’s all there. If you disagree with my assessment, well, fuck off, I’m still going to be part of A+.
However, I think I’m probably the fucking exception. With-us-or-against-us language may make sense in the online community for active participants, but it’s not helpful for lurkers. Which I was 6 months ago, and yet now am motivated to fight for women’s rights in Lexington, KY. Thank you, A+! For both providing me motivation (hell, I’m helping to organize multiple groups in support of an abortion clinic during 40daysofhate, see my post in A+ forums) and people to tell me I’m wrong.
For fuck’s sake, does not that not make it clear why I object to us-vs-them rhetoric?
Does it not make it clear that I’m fucking offended by your assholish absolutism?
Yeesh.
If you want to continue this, I recommend the Thunderdome, since I’m using non-Lounge language. However, I stand by my impassioned arguments, AND I’m going to bed, because fucking hell.
…at least, as far as I can tell. I know even less about the specifics of Marxism than I do neoliberalism, but in reading that person’s posts I’ve noticed a fair amount of unnecessarily esoteric/philosophical terminology (including one really out-of-nowhere and unnecessary Latin phrase) as well as a lot of wordiness, both of which send up my “sophisticated theology” red flags.
That, and the Marxist was the one who told me something to the effect of “if we try to limit the rich the way we used to in order to stabilize our economy, they’ll Go Galt”.
I think that’s just it for me. It goes “There is no gawd, you have no proof” and .. then what? It is not sufficient for me to sit around and feel self-important and superior about that realization. If I have the concept within my grasp that religion is unsupportable superstition, then that’s not an end in itself — the end is to attack the bad things that unsupportable superstition has brought about in our world.
I don’t grasp people who reach an end point at “Yup. Gawd is a fairy tale. And figuring that out makes me WAY smarter than you, so there.”
Fuck, Jen is getting it on Twitter TOO??
Some of the FtB regulars posted support for her father on his blog.
I’m still waiting for a coherent answer from one of the about what Jen has done to rile them up so much.
Should I hold my breath?
(if I do, I want to be cremated, after my organs are donated to science).
Damn me. The term I was looking for was “Finckean”, which I coined after Fincke started on his crap about “stupid” being equal to/worse than “tranny”. It refers to posts or essays written in such a way that the reader is utterly buried by the weight of words, until such point that the reader is nodding and agreeing because their logical centers have become overloaded.
PatrickG:
I was going to recommend that myself. I’ll respond over there.
Ok look one of my best friends is a Liberation Theology Catholic Marxist. I can almost garunt-fucking-tee you that you have a false flagger on your hands.
No you’re just wrong. I’m going to cite Mark Millar’s call to arms against trolling, it is about protecting your space and watching the back of others that you want to share space with.
ok I’m sorry, I havn’t joined due to crumugeonlyness and business but wern’t yawl making 101s to specifically shut down JAQing off?
I thought that was the plan, but imho the mods will have to come down harder and faster on jaqing in the non-101 threads for this to work.
Ing #234:
I doubt it, because they’re also making an impassioned rant about how Congress is full of bought-off hacks, as if no one knows this and is simply biting a fuckton of bullets whenever we talk about what can be done at the American voting booth. As far as I can tell, they just want a pony and think that the only way to even get closer is proletarian revolution.
(I fucking hate people who don’t realize that representative democracy requires one to balance one’s own political ideals against the political reality and wish they’d all just go off and make their own country where they can elect their liberal-pony candidates, giving us a nice place to vacation from trying to shore up things in the rest of the world.)
There’s multiple Marxists there; I’ve counted at least three or four besides myself. The one you’re thinking of is “Exi5tentialist”, right?
Has been brought up in the thread for mod criticism today, so we’ll see where it goes.
Annoyingly, though, one of the more popular threads has been about how “JAQing off” is bad because something about shaming masturbation, which has a distinct reek of white guys muscling in and declaring oppressed status…
No, sgbm. The one I’m talking about is in the thread I linked, goes by Onorato Damen.
So I assume this is the comment you’re talking about.
I notice you did not bother to argue the point there, which would probably be a better place than here.
Briefly, there is already a tremendous amount of capital that ought to be taxable within the USA and Canada but is instead stored offshore. This is not in dispute. The argument was that the typical response to higher taxation is to create more loopholes; note the already much lower tax rate on capital gains.
Of course, the Marxist does not mean that all this capital is inaccessible to you — it is therefore not the go Galt argument — but rather that you’ll have to use force to access most of it.
Your Marxist is evidently of the revolutionary variety, and probably does realize this — and is therefore not much interested in current forms of democracy.
Aaaaargh, reading up on Jen and her dad makes me seriously hate people this morning.
Going to college to talk to people to get back on track doesn’t help my mood any further because I’m short of a completely nonsensical absolutely irrational panic attack because well…
Caine
Love and get well-wishes for Carrot. And kisses and a treat for Gytha.
Again
Last time the resonance was a bit weak:
How about organizing a bit of support for Jen, by sending her a box of cards, letters, hugs, kisses, kitty-pictures?
sgbm #241: So, “taxing them more will make them try harder to evade taxes”? The answer to that is simply to close the loopholes, and enforce the regulations more on those who are hiding away all that money — it’s that very money, after all, that is going to end up in part funding said enforcement.
(And, the reason I didn’t argue it there was that it was encapsulated in a bit of a Finckean teal deer. The reason I do not like Fincke, or neoliberals, or libertarians, or that Marxist, is that I do not like arguments buried in a mountain of words and conceptual jargon.)
Let’s do it.
Yes, I agree that is an answer, which leads to another question: how are you going to do it?
Huh. It made sense to me, even the parts I didn’t agree with. But then so does Fincke.
I’m in. Does anyone know if she’s continued to ride a bike since the Camp Quest fundraiser forfeit? I have bike gear to spare.
If you want to send some support for Jen write me a mail
The extra-special emailadress is gilsays-loveforjenÄTyahoo.de
I’m absolutely willing to organize and beat the drums, but it would be great if somebody in the States could collect the final letters/items because we’re going to be out of money and time if everything runs via Germany
Giliell, email sent.
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This yogurt has been in the fridge for… a while. Opened.
It tastes fine.
Wish me luck.
beatrice
Got your mail.
Youghurt usually sports a good hairgrowth if it’s spoiled.
+++
I. Need. To. Stop. Hitting. Myself.
So, yeah, I’m back. No limbs torn off. Actually friendly people talking. Sure, I knew that much before. Didn’t stop me from having a panic attack and feeling sick. But I need need need to stop feeling stupid on top for feeling sick. It’s OK. I know I’ve got this problem, I know it’s not rational but it’s not getting better if I make myself feel even worse for feeling bad.
I’m good at policing my own feelings.
[/rant]
Caine – Oh no :( I hope Carrot is ok. If it becomes necessary, which I sincerely hope it doesn’t, I’m happy to give up virtual rat parentship or to share Chester.
Tony – NOOOOOO! Don’t hold your breath!
Giliell – I am definitely in. In the email do you want the message for Jen (also is it just messages or is stuff being sent as for Rebecca) or is it just to email to say that we want to be in on this?
Beatrice – goodluck
[images]
ANZANG Nature Photography competition
Lexie
Just an “I’m in” would be great at the moment.
Psychopathic boldness tied to US presidential success http://medicalxpress.com/news/2012-09-psychopathic-boldness-tied-presidential-success.html So that explains Tricky Dick.
— — — — — — — — — — —
Model shows wind could meet many times world’s total power demand by 2030 http://phys.org/news/2012-09-world-total-power-demand.html
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Caine, hugs if you want them.
Thanks for that wind power reference, birgirjohansson! I’d previously been informed that of renewable sources, only solar had the capacity to power the world.
Solar, wind, ocean, geothermal — they all can provide sufficient power and are effectively non-depletable.
(It’s a matter of development and investment)
NEW THREAD.