This is it. This is the NEW Endless Thread, reinstantiated on Freethoughtblogs. All the social chatter will have to take place here now. Let’s hope the server can take it! Testing to destruction…NOW!
(Last edition of TET, on Scienceblogs.)
Pharyngula
Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal
Woohoo! We are here!
Looks like we are committed, folks.
Or, at least, should be.
(*rimshot*)
I know PZ hates “first!” posts, but I am quite unreasonably chuffed to have got first comment on first TET at the new site.
Is this the first time you’ve favored us with a ballad about lonely stable boys?
Hey, fresh thread, fresh website. This should be awesomeness. ^_^
*poke*
*poke*
well, it seems reasonably alive ;-)
and just in case, I’ll quote myself from the alterTET:
Cath:
I say chuffed is an OK response in this situation.
Woo hoo! It’s nice to be here, PZ!
Repost:
Nigel:
HEY-O!
Logins necessary yet?
Audley, our newly-minted OM:
Fuck, yeah! And that ain’t even touching the wiener salad.
Boy, were the early ’70s a weird place.
Whoops, got in the way of the portcullis over on the old site.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophet,_seer,_and_revelator
Prophet, Seer, and Revelator is the official title for the Chief Mormon Dunderhead.
Thanks for the many suggestions in the previous chapter of TET. I haven’t registered at FtB yet, so maybe I will add something to my nym here.
Vanguard, HAZMAT responder, First Responder, Sentinel, Messenger,
Minor Profit and Contemptor
Secular Eye-Peeler
Lynna, OM and Morridor Contemptor
I’ll let this stew awhile. I might need David M.’s help.
Thanks for the love and proudish kudos, everyone.
Aw fucking shucks.
BTW, I am confused about registering. When I click on “Register” under the “STUFF” menu on the left, I get a window offering me a blog. Am in the right place to register as a commenter? This is me, being dumb about registering. Take pity.
just awesome.
How the heck did you guys get those cool thumbnails to show?
Logins not necessary yet. Let’s get people used to coming here before I start throwing up more barriers.
is it wrong that that phrase produces thememory of a screenshot from the Daily Show?
woot
Oooh, is that the new fainting couch? Very nice.
Lyn M:
Well, mine’s just because I’m stupendously handso… Oh. You mean the technical stuff.
Go to http://en.gravatar.com/ and sign up using the same email address and whatnot as here. That should do it. Unless I’m forgetting something, in my wine-befuddled state.
I’ll repeat, Mikkeller rocks.
Lyn M:
If you hover on one of our little avatars, you’ll see a sideways G. Click on that and it will take you to the Gravatar site, where you can set your pic!
Nigel:
If there was a lot of wiener salads happening, I’m glad I missed them. :)
first you register a FtB wordpress account, then make a post, then click on the spot where the icon goes. that gets you to the gravatar site, where you can upload a picture
or, after registering, you can maybe find an easier way to get to your gravatar profile, but i don’t know of one
:-p
While we’re talking who else should blog: Lynna! Just collecting all your moments of mormon madness from TET would be a terrific blog.
Jadhawk:
is it wrong that that phrase produces thememory of a screenshot from the Daily Show?
You mean the one from last night’s Channel 5 adverts about the sausage?
There’s that, too.
It reminds me of this quote, from the wonderfully-cheezy (and very funny) movie, The Ref (which has become a holiday standard at the TheBold household):
Did anyone else notice that Pastor T.Estes made a short appearance to spout off about blasphemy? It’s nice to know we’re missed by the loonies.
Damn blockquote fail.
First one here, though. Huzzah!
Reporting for duty!
I come bearing gifts: some more Vienna Teng! Also a little story: My decent-human-being ex was one of those people who talk in their sleep. He would say all sorts of sometimes absurd, usually hilarious things in his sleep, and I’d report them to him in the morning. Sometimes he’d know why he said things, other times he’d have absolutely no idea. Once while I was listening to this song and working on my thesis, he, sleeping a few feet away, sighed and said plaintively, “Oh no! Oh no! This song makes me cry!” …I still think that’s sweet :)
Oh, man, it’s not giving me a ‘sign in’ widget — let’s see what happens —
I haven’t registered here but I have a gravatar that goes with my email address. It’s actually me, and the same as my facebook profile pic (though much lower res). Get yer gravatar on at http://en.gravatar.com/
Bringing this over from the post-portcullis area of the previous chapter of TET:
Mr. Deity with Michael Shermer!
actually, I haven’t seen last night’s episode yet. so no, a different one
Rev. BDC:
Jeaaaalllllooouuus.
Oh, shit. I just accidentally put a video in the comments stream. PZ, I’m sorry.
Shiny new digs at last.
Joyous online customer service today.
Me: “I’ve set up your account.” (and just cringed my way through the “I love jesus” profile”)
Customer: “I’m in virtual church right now! Want to join in?”
Me: “This is a customer service account. I’m on paid time at the moment, and have to continue working.”
Customer: “I don’t CARE what you’re doing. I ASKED if you wanted to come to church. :P”
Me: “No. Thanks for getting the point.”
Jadehawk:
Well, they do like their penis jokes.
Jadehawk,
Apparently the Gravatars work w/out registering– I wasn’t logged in when I made my first post on this thread and my little icon is there.
As long as your email address is registered with Gravatar, your pic should show up here.
Woo hoo! First thread of the new site!
what did you do, Lynna? just post the link?
It would be less-than-convenient if links to images and videos automatically embedded said images and videos :-/
Having a hard time following comments on two different threads on the same post here. If this bothers more people, any way this could be sorted out? Perhaps synchronize comments on both blogs, or if that’s not viable just link to the post here and close comments over there? There could be a big “GET BACK TO SB.COM” button for people that don’t wish to see the non-NatGeo posts.
Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds. Of blogs. And it’s not working. Or rather, it the blog is working. The whole destroying and smiting isn’t.
What’s really weird is that I thought I already had a Gravatar (a very cute picture of a piglet) that I used on other sites. But it never showed up and I had to register for a new account.
Yuck. There was a ring of sediment in my wine. And it came out in clumps.
Yuck.
I like the look of the new joint PZ. Good luck!
Finally, TET is here.
Testing new avatar- old pic unidentifiable. It was, incidentally, an upside-down elephant sculpture in the main square in Avignon.
Hm, apparently harder to change that one would think.. oh, here we go.
The registration is a bit cumbersome.
I push login and fill out the form. Check the remember me button. Which forgot me from last night anyway.
This takes me to a wordpress page informing me of all sorts of stuff I don’t care about. Then I get the FTB front page. Finally I reach Pharyngula.
On scienceblogs, my ID with moveable type would stay logged in for weeks at least.
@ Classical Cypher
You should have blogged him and made a fortune in merchandising.
Any beer nerds out there…
http://untappd.com
If you sign up let me know
More avatar testing – or I may just have to break out the drawings…
Shouldn’t that be “Episode CCXL”?
/pedantry
It’s a pretty good resource. My major complaint is that it’s basically a compilation but the author rarely notes which sources he’s using for any particular entry.
That’s not a big deal, but I still ignore his pleas for donations, because he is apparently either a neo-Confederate or a neo-Confederate sympathizer.
According to this guy, when Stephens said the South fought for slavery, he totally didn’t mean it.
Barf.
Rev. BDC:
I’m lettin’ you know.
Under the canonical name.
My #1 complaint:
My #2 complaint:
I have a comment in moderation which only used 3 links!
Argh. Cipher. Sorry, I’m trying to get godbot out of IM.
Ew – trying again with brightened avatar… Hm, that’ll do for now.
Nigel, you want scary food, you need to go back to the 50s and 60s. I have one book that has photos of the scary food, but I can’t find the damn thing right now.
I’m not even confident about a single link now *whimper*
This was interesting, on the privatization of US schooling: scienceblogs.com/deanscorner/2011/08/the_triumph_of_the_american_ma.php
And I don’t like fully justified typesetting!
I don’t like anything unfamiliar!
I’m going conservative for the rest of the night!
Can’t find you with that for some reason… do you know my real life name?
Hmm. One step at a time. I am logged in properly. Now I guess I can try the avatar bit.
Those with more Latin skills may have a better idea for my amended nym. Least of my worries right now. I’m faceless.
I hope the Faithful (Web)Minion is standing by with the crash cart at the ready in case the site strokes out under the load….
Anyone else wonder if there will be tumbleweed blowing across SB soon?
Well that’s just dandy. I can’t use AKron on WordPress. Some bozo already took it. They also deleted their blog, so why can’t I have it? Who would take such an obscure username? I can see someone choosing “Akron”, but “AKron”? Go figure.
It spews script errors like ass.
And XXXX is a rotten Australian beer; it’s like Dos Equis, but twice as bad.
Poll needs Pharyngulating agains the Australian Christian Lobby: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/backlash-over-mps-stand-against-gay-marriage-20110802-1i960.html#poll
Nevermind, found you
OK, that worked, and thank you for the replies.
@ Nigel, well I hesitated to say, but that’s what I was thinking. For sure.
O_o Holy moley, @sgbm on your privatization link, what the HECK happened to your sentence spacing? Yikes!
Caine:
I love scary food. After a bad day at the office, my wife (she is a social worker) likes to come home and have Bad Movie Night.
Normally, the movie is Deep Blue Sea. There are few movies as earnest, as budgeted, as entertaining, and as bad as Deep Blue Sea. And for dinner, we’ll often have Tillamook cheddar melted in a vat of home-made chilli, in which we dip Fritos.
Or, it might be pan-fried wieners (it’s a way, I’m tellin’ ya’) in chilli dogs. (Chilli seems to be a theme. Maybe because I just like making it.)
We are fuckin’ connoisseurs of bad food.
Also, I have started collecting vintage cookbooks. Some of ’em are downright frightening. I mean, corn and celery in tuna casserole? Are you fuckin’ nuts?
AKron: you can’t use it here? The DB here is separate from the official wordpress one (click the “login” option under “stuff” on the left near the post).
So, do we get to call this TET2.0?
Hey, I wonder if my gravatar will show up…
Also, I see that someone posted a video up above. I wonder if I can post pictures…
We shall see…
No, it seems not.
All right then. Follow this link
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/5523/catsonaslide.gif
If you would like to gaze upon hypnotic vision of a Sisyphean kitteh mama endlessly chasing after her kittens as they slide down a slide.
Just messing around with the new toys on this one.
Hey gang, gravatars also show up in Preview here, FYI. You can field-test ’em!
If you are using some of the Firefox addons for blockquoting, linking, etc., some of those functions still work.
Rev. BDC:
I reckon I could look it up in the Secret of Nym. But that’d take effort. And work. Don’t you folks know I only know you by your handles? I mean, seriously! Expecting me to remember your real na…
Phew! That was a close call.
Cool to see you. Now I have a place to microblog about my favorite subject.
Me.
Oh, and beer.
Fully justified typesetting! It’s in the damn CSS!
Well so much for trying to register, but one can still post with the Leave a Reply thing. By some black magic my final post at the Pharyngula version got evaporated in the space-time continuum just as the thread moved. What it said was:
What??! Get used to something new???!!
*pout*
Oh, OK.
Right after I travel five hours in each direction to Coney Island (NY) to see only the second gray-hooded gull ever recorded in North America. And maybe ride the Cyclone while I’m down there. And have a Nathan’s Famous Hot Dog.
AKron, a bunch of us found someone sitting on our nyms when we went to sign up at wordpress.com (not the same as the FtB login!) so we could get an avatar. The user name doesn’t have to be the same, you just have to use the same email you used with FtB.
As soon as everybody is off of the old SB, I say we blow the fucker up.
Grammar RWA:
I know. It ain’t TeX, but it’ll do.
Mangling French is a lot of fun. For so many years, it mangled me. Will try to control self now.
Testing to see if my gravatar loads.
Antiochus Epiphanes:
Dust off and nuke it from space.
It’s the only way to be sure.
ready the Low Orbit Ion Cannon!
Yeah it’s actually a pretty cool ap if you’re a total beer nerd, which I am.
Make sure you load it on your phone.
Is anyone working on a killfile that will work here?
Heh. I just went to the old Pharyngula.
*chirp* *chirp*
It’s a ghost town.
Talk about internet time…
I remember that blog, tangsm! That guy’s funnier in his sleep, though.
Today, in our seventh week of learning Greek, we learned to count to four. Yes, I am serious.
Hurrah! Now I’m one of the cool kids with a picture!
wtf?
Okay, this is one of those annoying avatar tests.
And fuck if I know what I did when accidentally posting the Mr. Deity video within the comment stream.
Cipher:
Hrm. Maybe that’s why they’re having a financial crisis.
@ Rev. BigDumbChimp
*giggles* that is so wrong on so many levels. Load beer on your phone. So now your phone is loaded. Will it still work? Will it have a hangover?
*I think this great new site is making me giddy.
Rev. BigDumbChimp:
Oh, I will. I see this will be useful.
I can also see how it’s going to encourage me to one-up everyone.
Not that I need encouragement. The most common phrase from me in a package store: “Hey! I’ve never tried this before!”
Way cool.
Lynna (and others): WordPress theoretically automatically embeds youtube, twitter, and a few other link types in comments.
Check out http://en.support.wordpress.com/comments/embeds/
Sentences look like this when text is right justified .
Rag right margin is betterer.
@Nigel, you must have either five-alarm heartburn, or guts lined with asbestos. They sound like awesome comfort food, though.
In my experience, learning dead languages is just done in a different order from learning ones that are currently spoken. The first week we were talking about roads and islands and goats, now we’re learning numerals one through four. The other day we learned “yes” and “hello” (which is also goodbye).
OK. I’m pretty sure a pageant announcer on Toddlers & Tiaras just said a 3-year-old’s ambition is to be “an octopus or a photographer.” That is seriously awesome.
The author of the old one can be emailed and cajoled.
at snowplow.org
martin
(No mention of taking Paypal but if he’s open to it, perhaps we can bribe and/or thank him for what he’s done so far.)
Old Thread, at the Old Digs:
There’s always time for lubrication!
–
As far as I can tell, I followed the instructions to Register, back on Monday, but it never followed up with the link to my in-box; so I just now did it again. How long is it supposed to take? Anyone know?
–
I’ve always kinda assumed that it’s like the good/bad swap.
–
But the problem…one of the problems…is that the Gombies (a good word, BTW; did you neologise it yourself?) want an unchanging truth, whereas science is more of a process, and a continual work-in-progress. It doesn’t take much thought-processing to accept the Received Word (whatever it may be), but rather more to understand the changes in science’s understanding of Life, the Universe, and Everything. They like their certainties; science’s ambiguities and unknowns don’t have the same appeal. Then throw the weight of history and custom behind ease-of-assimilation, and Bob’s your parent’s sibling.
–
–
New Thread, at the Old Digs:
Lynna, Harbinger of the Horde?
–
New Thread, at Sniny New Digs:
Wiener…salad……. *shudder*
Word.
–
SallyStrange, Sisyphean kitteh mama linky didn’t link.
–
Great, FTB auto-fixed my spaced-out sentence that I made to illustrate the right-justification problem. But that’s the deal with SGBM’s post.
Turning in early go to gull-hunting in the morning.
Richard:
That’s gonna have to change, given how often people post youtube links on TET.
Wow, it is all inauguralistic. Neat!
Could someone maybe post a brief explanation of the tags?
I don’t remember when I learned Latin numbers, but I’m fairly certain they gave us at least the first ten (or maybe even the first 20) in one set. why only 1-4, in this case?
@ ciceley
I got my confirmation and could follow up within seconds. Could be there is a problem with yours.
Caine:
Yeah, polls embed too, which while it could be entertaining for 5 minutes could also be really annoying for years.
Totally. I’ve been trying a new beer nearly every day (or a few a day) since I started.
Bunny:
I figure if it ain’t killed me yet, it’s only a bit of major discomfort. It’s all good. And excellent Bad Movie Night fare.
(Other bad movies: Reign of Fire, if you like mediocre special effects with your good actors acting like bad actors. My favorite is a double feature of actual good movies: Them, the 1950’s giant ant extravaganza, followed by Tremors, the Fred Ward vehicle. Oh, and it has Kevin Bacon, who only ever succeeded because of his relationship with Sir Francis. And his last name.)
However, growing up I did start training with habeneros. My dad figured he’d start me on the mild stuff first, and work his way up.
Going to bed, folks. I have a long, long day of slacking ahead of me.
G’night, all.
I know my intro to Latin course launched us right into pronunciation and verbs with translations of simplified greek myths, and about halfway through the course we asked our instructor if we’d ever learn how to say “yes” and “no”. They’re definitely prioritized different.
Oh, and people drink beer here? Neat! I’m drinking Stone Ruination IPA, yummy stuff. A “liquid poem to the glory of the hop!”
Rev. BigDumbChimp:
Holy cow. That’s going to be hard, since I’ve tried most of them within reach. I’m gonna have to go out of my way to find new beers.
I think I’m up to the challenge.
Thanks, Sir.
Now I’m really off to bed.
Bold, italic,
strike, blockquote, and links work like they did at SB. Using text format toolbar. Note that strike has to be spelled out, s won’t work.Shoot for the moon. Be both. Develop 8 angle simultaneous photography.
We got several other numerals individually in vocab sections – unlike the others, though, 1-4 decline, and they have idiosyncratic declensions, so we didn’t learn them right away. No idea why they made us wait this long, though… it’s been some time since we learned how to decline things. And yeah, now that you mention it, I do seem to remember learning numbers earlier in Latin…! Just not the sort of things I would consider basic conversational stuff.
explain which tags, SC? the ones under “Allowed Tags”?
most of them are useless. <del>, <a href=””>, <a title=””>, <b>, <i>, and of course <blockquote> are the useful ones, IIRC
Improbable Joe:
Uhm, Jyeah! But only if you mean, “By the gallon.”
Stone is a fuckin’ awesome brewery. I will by anything they make, and in almost all cases, love it.
Really. Off to bed.
Really.
I plomise.
Y’all just stop posting interesting stuff, okay?
Testing this gravatar thingus out. Nothing to see here…..
Have to quit for the day. Eyestrain.
Fuck! I won’t “by” anything from Stone.
I’ll buy pretty much everything, though.
Now.
Off.
To.
Bed.
grrrrrr
Huh. Showed up in preview. :(
When I tried to learn Arabic, we never made it through the alphabet, never mind numbers.
In three months.
Weren’t you going to bed, Improbable Joe? ;P
I’m more confused about the tags than ever. I can use the old ones?
Yeah Salty, I was totally off to bed. My oldest cat is pretty pissed off at the wait. He doesn’t go to bed until I do.
I like the code tag. Why it is important to have this available I do not know. It's not as if you can actually type code when you use this, it's basically just a font so far as I can tell. Then again I'm not very blog savvy. I do kind of like the font though. This is nice for those times when you just don't feel special enough I guess.Speaking of that, when they say allowed…
Apparently there are no <subs> in the same, old-fashioned way.
Trade Mark™ seems to work.
Can has Comic Sans?? Colors?
Apparently not.
mostly, yes. only the <s> tag doesn’t seem to work. for that, you can use the <del> or <strike> tag
also, the <a title> tag is fun: hover over this
Nigel:
I have hatched a delicious plot!
First, we have the Squidly OL post some really delicious pieces, like about how women are people and how mainstream Christians and accomodationists are promoting fundamentalist goals.
Second, we just watch the comment threads fill up, but remain absolutely silent, just giggling up our sleeves over here.
Third, when the Borg is fit to pop like a tick….when all of the stupid is just gathered into a singularity of dumb so dense that it threatens to tear the very fabric of reality,… or when we run clean out of porcupines…
THEN we nuke it.
OK. Now don’t tell anyone.
Algernon:
The code tag is useful for techies. Such as if I want to write:
>select * from dbo.malerightsactivists where clue > 0;>no results returned
Or something.
huh; when I tried the code tag, it wouldn’t work
anyway, I think it might be useful for people making phylogenetic trees and crap like that
128 comments already? Jeez you guys. Jeez.
Testing, testing. Can I post here?
Should I say something of substance? Bacon. Chocolate.
I kind of like the whole secret message hover tag myself. Might come in handy for people who don’t understand sarcasm to have what you really think of them pop up at will.
Time to call it a night, but still no emailed linky.
Perhaps my linky will come tomorrow. I don’t wanna be trapped in the kiddie pool!
–
Ah, yes that does look nice Richard!
LOL!
Cicely: my confirmation email took about ten minutes to show up.
The hover tag is cool.
I remain confused.
I agree about the acronym title tag and like.
Damn, code doesn’t preserve the spacing. No python code, then, and no ascii art squid.
Cicely, mine came in about 30 seconds. You might want to check spam folders or do a refresh.
Cath:
______
( )
( Oo )
( )
||||||
||||||
/ |||| \
SC, all the handy tags I can use are listed right at the top of my comment entry window… I assumed that everyone can see the same thing? They don’t require a , but that’s the only way to highlight a specific piece of text rather than everything following the tag. First letter or word in the tag gets put in place of “whatever”.
Is that what you’re confused about, or just what’s allowed and isn’t listed? Because in that case I have no idea either. I assumed they’d list everything.
Heh, it used the command. Didn’t spot that in preview. /whatever was what I accidentally put in the tag format.
Houston, we’ve had a problem. We’re showing a red light on comic sans — assemble the engineering team, we’re going to have to whip something up out of duct tape and spit….
Okay. I have a face. Simplified name for now.
I think I just need to put up a picture of a rock hammer for my avatar.
Or I need to have a drink. How about whiskey and two bites of sour cream chocolate cake.
But before I go, one Moment of Mormon Madness to christen the new home The Endless Thread.
The LDS Church is building a replica of Jerusalem in Utah. “Astoundingly accurate details!” so they say.
Looks like another billion dollars of tithing money being put to good use.
Okay, yeah, that was a bad squid. But I doubt OCE wants us filling this with ascii art anyway. Besides, while I can parse processes with the best of them, I’m no artist :)
Crap, and now my youngest cat is crying at the office door.
Seriously off to bed now. Right now. This second.
One problem I noticed — if you take too long futzing around with a post, the page will refresh on you and you’ll lose your text.
As long as some of the replies here can get, I can see this posing a real problem for some people unless they compose their posts in a text editor then cut and paste into the submission box.
Stupid unintentional naps. Throwing everything off. I didn’t realize how late it was and suddenly my room was pitch dark and when I got up to go turn on a light I tripped over things and ow. And I have so much Greek to study and have done almost nothing on my to do list. Sad.
Insufficient. You should fear the unknown.
^
/ \
\ /
| |
| |
| 0 |
// ||\\
(( // ||
\\)) \\
//|| ))
( )) //
// ((
Doesn’t work in preview
It it better if I submit? I doubt it but why not try?
Nope, no ascii art for me unless you swap “ ” for all the spaces. Richard, how did you do it?
Hi new TET !
This just in from Google+ :
*blink*
Hee. No, I can see them. But I don’t know what most of them mean/do. And the way they’re presented doesn’t explain to me how they work like it did at the old place. I need a “SOMETHING text here SOMETHING.”
I usually stay out of TET… I haven’t got that much free time.
But I feel compelled on the new site! Compelled!
Yeah, the
<code>tag is just supposed to indicate computer code. I guess it’s both semantic and visual, but not otherwise functional. Typically it’ll be a monospaced font, which can be handy.All HTML entities should work fine.
(So if you want to, you can express disapproval Reddit style: ಠ_ಠ )
The ones you’re likely to use are all the same, aren’t they?
<b>bold</b><i>italics</i>
<blockquote>quote</blockquote>
(
class="creationist"isn’t available as yet)<a href="url">Link</a>
is now<s><strike>strikethrough</strike>Brightened up my avatar a bit… that’ll do once the new one propagates, I gather.
(re the poll on the SMH via dexitroboper)
35,000 and 46% against gay marriage? Yep – that’s a fudged result (again proving the value of web polls)
However – it still wouldn’t be right to let the ACL drones think they got the upper hand :)
Hmmm, this is the new neighborhood, eh?
I’ve been told my linky didn’t work.
Trying again…
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/5523/catsonaslide.gif
That should work.
This one’s for Dr. Who fans.
http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/3223/cybermandancing.gif
Just tried posting the following, and it worked fine in preview, but oddly it didn’t show up in the comments and generates an error if I try to repost, saying it “looks like I’ve already said that”:
How odd.
I WANT NUMBERED COMMENTS!!!!11!!!
Now I’ll catch up.
Also I’m re-activating the SallyStrange Twitter account, if anyone cares.
Valkyrie607 is dead. She’s shuffled off her mortal coil and gone to join the choir invisible. She’s a stiff. Bereft of life, she rests in peace. Valkyrie607 is… an EX-AVATAR!
Or ex-pseudonym, however you want to phrase it.
ok
<a href=”url here” title=”hover text here”> more text here</a> more text here
<abbr title=”hover text here”>visible text here</abbr> visible text here
<del>deleted text</del>
deleted textetc.
I second the clamour (can two be a clamour?) for numbered comments. They can be in Greek, for all I care.
I mean to say, how is Sven ever going to know….
Testing of gravatar image. See if this works
PZ, do I really have to register?
I know you fear a mabus invasion but. . .
I’M TOO LAZY TO MAKE ANOTHER ONE! :(
/whine
Thanks, everyone.
I’m going to have to look at these again in the morning.
Cath:
Er…
… that’s how *sheepish grin*
… alright, I’m starting to get some lag and a few random issues with FTB. Not sure why. It’s 2100 PST, which might mean some kind of server maintenance EST.
…Heeey, for some reason the style sheet seems to be off – I just get a white page with comments stuck on it – but the comments are NUMBERED!
Were they numbered all this time, but the numbers are just invisible?
Wait….. there’s meant to be avatars?
I see nuffink!!! NUUUUUUFFFFINK!
There’s a comment id, but it’s unique per site not per thread.
<li class="comment byuser comment-author-obenchainr odd alt thread-odd thread-alt depth-1" id="comment-1594">So, dunno how useful it is.
Hey, I just noticed that the posts aren’t numbered.
That makes it hard to refer back or indicate to whom you are replying to.
Maybe one could just use the time as a referent.
On further scrolling, I noticed that my amazing discovery isn’t so new. Oh well.
Woo! I have an avatar now.
@ Richard Austin – your comment is #171, mine is #170, yours again is #169, and so on. They ARE numbered per thread…
Link to screenshot
From the description you linked, it’s not so much a brewery as a brewer.
Anyone want to talk about the latest economic crisis instead of fooling around with avatars?
I’ve been reading a lot in the last week since it dawned on me that we are having an economic crisis. There is a consensus that something is drastically wrong.
There isn’t too much that sounds intelligent about how to get out of it. We are between a rock and a hard place.
Maybe we can’t. The best thought out plans I’ve seen say it will take 5 or 10 years and another recession or two to wash out all the bad debts that are Zombied right now.
Shorter. The USA might be in the twilight of its superpower status. Economics is boring and confusing but it effects us all whether we are paying attention or not.
Damn. Black dog went straight for the throat today. I was about thirty seconds away from beating the fuck out of the first shithead to look at me funny. Thank goodness that went away before I looked in the mirror.
I felt a bit better after playing a round of DDR. Perhaps vigorous exercise helps? I walked around Ikea and it just got worse and worse.
—-
PZ/Ed/tech monkey: How about a placeholder gravatar?
Also, enabling <hr>? Assuming it’s not already:
Also, preview is intermittently b0rken.
—-
I’ve officially started moving out of my apartment. Five boxes of books are sitting in my dad’s dining room, and thirteen more empty boxes are in my car waiting to be filled with junk.
—-
Went to Dave and Buster’s. Not particularly impressed. It’s basically a Chuck E. Cheese’s with delusions of grandeur. I will admit that they probably have better food, though I can’t say for sure; I’ve never eaten at Dave and Buster’s, and the last time I ate at Chuck E. Cheese’s was close to 20 years ago.
Plus, parking is a royal fuckup. I think they do this intentionally, to make money on valet. (If I were king, I would require that any business charging money for valet parking also have at least twice as many self-parking spaces.
As I was leaving, one guy (“Gallant”) waited on one side for me to pull out. As I was pulling out, some other guy (“Goofus”) raced up behind me with the presumed aim of stealing the space. So, after I backed out, as I was sitting in front of Goofus, I waved Gallant in. Goofus damn near rammed me.
—-
My calendar screwed me out of $25 and/or a steak dinner. Seriously.
I bought an admission package to a pre-opening event for Dave and Buster’s, with proceeds to benefit Big Brothers Big Sisters. I put the event on my calendar.
Fast forward a month… no event, so no reminder. Obviously, I completely forgot about it.
I’m still out $25, and I don’t get the admission benefits (a steak and $20 worth of play credits, if memory serves). I don’t even get the tax writeoff because I don’t itemize. That’s actually why I went there in the first place (to see if I could get *something* in return), but I couldn’t find the management because the place was shoulder to shoulder.
I was feeling like shit even before I realized this, but.
(And the really sad part was that I’ve given more than that with no expectation of return… but dammit, I got screwed.)
I can’t seem to get the block quote to work properly.
*sigh* surveys all the new tags.
I will eventually like them, at the moment they are making me feel old and stupid. Darn kids these days and their newfangled forms of communication./grumble off
last thread on voting/ I see that SGBM and Lynna have already provided excellent citations and examples of liberal politics in action.
I am pleased with Wisconsin’s recall elections results. The attempt to privitize public utilities was an outrage to many of the older demographic.
Al Franken is another example. His election was close and went through a recount process, but he DID win. He is also proving to be surprisingly good at being a Senator IMO.
Bjarne
It was a bad joke about keeping shipping costs down using “locally sourced” spiny and stinging animals. My source says Echidnas (echidni ?) are native to Northern Europe, but doesn’t define that term very precisely. And apparently your porcupines are a different animal from my porcupine. I had no idea there were old-world porcupines/new world porcupines!
Knowledge everywhere, pharynguli, pharyngula!!
Placeholder avatars activated.
Pteryxx says:
3 August 2011 at 11:18 pm
Hrm, don’t see that at all. Only comment IDs I see are the ones used in the links. But you said your CSS was acting weird; mine looks fine. Did you use one of those CSS override scripts/options/plugins?
PS: I won’t accept a refund from BBBS. I’m not *that* much of an asshole… at least not now. The more pissed off I get, the more of an asshole I become; my attitude quickly becomes “fuck you, I’m getting what’s mine”.
I’ll let you now if I turn green and my clothes start ripping.
Oh, hey – the comment numbers show up in a print preview. So, they’re in a CSS, just not in the main one, “yet” I hope.
really? fascinating: what browser do you use? (style-sheet is all screwy here, too, but I do see comment numbers; Firefox 3.6.19 on OSX)
I figured the block quote out.
Let me have my moment of victory. I know that it’s a simple task, but it still feels good to have figured it out.
Jadehawk:
I’m in IE 8 (corporate won’t let us upgrade to 9, and my desktop’s still in pieces from my move).
If I go to “print preview”, they all show up (and the format’s all different). However, in the normal screen view, they don’t. I have to assume it’s the two different CSS, though I could be wrong.
I don’t see the numbers you’re talking about either. I’m using Chrome on OSX.
Comment identifying numbers are particular to each blog – PZ’s is the only one currently numbered by four digits, though Ed’s blog is putting up a valiant effort.
Still plenty of time to snaffle a two-digit comment number by visiting the Digital Cuttlefish or Comradde PhysioProffe.
I believe seriffed text and ComicSans blockquoting of creationist idiots are expected to be available once the ECO has had words and exchanged CSS with the so-called Tech Slave – who’s generally done a marvellous job I think it should be said, even if Monday morning was a bit iffy.
@ Richard Austin: I’m using Tor’s Firefox 3.6.18 with Noscript, Sharemenot, Adblock and such, but everything on my browser is the same as it’s been all day. Only in the last hour-ish did my view abruptly change. And, it’s only on Pharyngula – the main FTB site, Cuttlefish’s site, all work the usual way with the extremely blue sidebars and the WordPress dashboard bar on top.
Okay, just popped into Firefox 5.01 (just installed, I love my home network), and still no comment numbers. CSS looks the same as in IE8.
Almost certainly the site is using different CSS for printable versions. For example, PZ’s squidly-overlordly #comment-1624 above is currently no. 180 in the thread.
So, um, apparently there’s a sold-out Coldplay concert, like, outside of where I live. I can hear it through my window. …LA is really weird.
Cipher:
LA is awesomely weird. Assuming you mean Los Angeles, and not that weird state in the sortof-south.
huh; i just checked, and both chrome and opera have the old, numberless stylesheet; so, is this screwiness a firefox3-specific problem?
fascinating
Pteryxx:
Someone (maybe even the High Squid himself) may be playing with the different style sheets, then. Weird that my Firefox isn’t picking it up, though. Might be version-based.
Questions for the code monkey:
Will the “comment-author-usernamegoeshere” class always be here? If so, I think we’ve got a perfect hook for a killfile.
Is the page cached? If so, is it the *entire* page, or sections? In other words, would it be possible to, per-render, include data from the database? (Specifically, a list of killed users and comments.)
Would you be amenable to installing a killfile WordPress plugin, were one to mysteriously appear from the depths of my brain?
@ Richard Austin: Agreed; it’s just interesting that there already ARE thread-specific comment numbers hidden by the style sheet. …Sooo, nobody can see them except me. Muahahahaha! *cracks talons*
Pteryxx:
Just so long as you use your evil powers for good…
Mutters, “We’re doomed.”
I have an avatar without even trying?!, and can’t wait for the first troll invasion with hover text retorts. Hopefully my eyeballs will be able to sort all of the tags into something I can make sense of. In the previous TET on SB’s I could just drag them into the quote box, but I’m not sure where one tag ends and the next begins here.
no numbers on posts/chrome
So, according to Bill O’Reilly the “far left in America are trying to marginalize the Tea Party.”
Okay, print and handheld CSS options in Firefox both have the comment numbers (and different layouts, each). Maybe you guys are somehow getting the “mobile” version of the site?
So, my invisible comment numbers which none of YOU mammal things get to see, are: 9, 47, 53, 66, 71, 155, 170, 174, 189, 197, and now 201! Woohoo!
…
#202. Damn you, Richard Austin! Daaaamn youuuuu!
… and, my work here is done.
Tethys @199 (ha!) – Those random cartoon monster avatars come from a default avatar-generator that a webpage can get from Gravatar. Everybody without an avatar of their own will get one automatically, as long as it’s turned on.
FWIW, the page style is simply listed as “basic page style”, but it looks the same as “no style”; so, we’re seeing the naked FtB
So far this thread is retarded. But we will have to see.
OH HAI!
New & Improved The Endless Thread™ FTW!
I have nothing to say.
I wish I was a scientist.
You guys make me feel worthless.
But I still love you.
<3
Okay, so…
FOR THOSE WHO WANT COMMENT NUMBERS!!!!
The Web Developer addin for Firefox (I think there’s one for Chrome, too) will let you pick the CSS media type for the page. If you pick Print or Handheld, you’ll see the comment numbers (and steal a little bit of Pteryxx’s soul*) sequentially per thread.
I’m not sure how to get it to do that permanently, but it’s at least a half-ass solution.
That is all, carry on.
* Any claims regarding nonexistent spritial essences do not constitute a guarantee.
fuck off, will ya?
Is there a way to see the avatar bigger?
Sam Salerno:
please insert this rusty echidna sideways into an orifice of your choosing.
comments into the aether, gone gone gone
Yes, and that comment just contributes so much.
here is my addition to this thread.
People of faith are people who don’t have confidence in their fellow humans ability to tackle difficult problems.
Jadehawk:
Did you see where Nigel stuck the porcupines? I coulda sworn they were around here somewhere…
Comment numbers are automatically generated by your browser because of the <ol> tag, and the CSS makes them disappear.
That’s curious. It’s not regenerating the page content, so it must be entirely in CSS. I wonder how it’s —
D’oh! Of course, it’s bloody obvious.
The whole comment section is an ordered list, which by default, will automatically be numbered! The main CSS is just turning it off.
You can get numbers immediately by changing this line in CSS:
.commentlist li {
list-style: none outside none;
}
to
.commentlist li {
list-style: decimal outside none;
}
Now, this list numbering is determined when the comments are rendered by the browser, so it is numbering the actual comments being displayed. Because of that, there’s no way to make these numbers constant in the event of deleted comments. (Doing that would require a different approach, with some PHP work on the site template.)
Whoops. Bit late to the game there.
fuck off, will ya?
it would be to easy. Give me a reason to stay.
Sam Salerno:
Insecurity starts with self. Most of the so-called “faithful” I’ve met are insecure in their own abilities to tackle problems. They extend that insecurity to others – “If I don’t understand it, they can’t either” – but it begins with themselves.
This is also generally true of bigots and discriminators, too: it’s usually a need to reinforce (or flat-out generate) some kind of sense of security or power that causes people to put down others. *cough*
At least in my experience.
Testing, testing the new system.
People who think people of faith are people who don’t have confidence in their fellow humans’ ability to tackle difficult problems are people who don’t have confidence in their fellow humans’ ability to tackle difficult problems.
IMO.
re avatars
jeez y’all are a funny-looking bunch.
—–
My take on all all the posting problems:
“We’ve got lumps of it round the back.”
—–
But seriously, for all those working on it:
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
etc.
Sam, what makes you think we’re interested in you staying? I’m not, not particularly. You’re not off to a good start, and we’re not here to entertain you.
And yes, Richard, I mean Los Angeles… I’m not used to big cities.
*razzberries for Kagato*
If you had just been lazy like me, you would have gotten there first!
(said the hare)
Click them.
How about this topic: The Obama administration says that, as part of the health care law, insurers must cover all FDA approved birth control without co-pays.
The debt celling deal may have sucked, but at least the administration did one good thing this week.
Quite.
Sam, you’re here to entertain us.
Ah yes, I saw this. Sounds great. Not just pills, but IUDs and whatever et cetera I can’t think of…
Cipher:
If you’re in LA, you’re in a weird big city (but still an awesome one). It’s not really representative of big cities. I’m not actually sure it’s representative of anything. It’s just LA.
But, it’s still my city (born and raised) even if I’m in Pasadena now (which is still LA metro). So, welcome! How long you here for?
(I don’t think it’s Coldplay, though, at least not live… their roadie blog has them in Austrailia right now…)
Sam Salerno
No.
Classical Cipher
I visited LA for the first time in June. It was enjoyable, but I found myself missing my lawn. LA seems to have built on or paved every square inch of ground.
I’d drink that just for the cool name.
Do you happen to be anywhere near the brewery ? They have distribution in many states, but I don’t figure they’re exactly common outside SoCal.
Anybody know if the wording is specifically for women, or would it flex to cover a male birth control pill if it became available?
Gram and Classic it really doesn’t matter what you think I think. This is an endless thread and I can say whatever the fuck I want. maybe it’s you that’s not off to a good start.
Ava, Oporornis maledetta says:
Right after I travel five hours in each direction to Coney Island (NY) to see only the second gray-hooded gull ever recorded in North America.
African or South American subspecies?
And what plumage? Looks kinda cute in most of them, the red bill and legs.
People who love scary food can find several Flickr pools devoted to that, weird-colored old cookbook photos and all. Some folks I know here have an annual Mid-Century party; that’s where I saw a shot that remains seared into my brain: chocolate-covered bacon strips.
Speaking of: Matt the Cat has, of all things, ringworm. We now have a bottle labeled “Lime Sulfur Dip” in the kitchen, and I will stink of brimstone for the rest of my life. Jeezus fuck, Matt.
I’m pretty sure it’s just for women as it’s part of the women’s preventative services.
If you want more information about the birth control thing, here you go: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/01/obama-birth-control-health-insurance_n_914818.html
at the risk of opening a can of worms, I agree with Marcotte that the pill for guys isn’t going to happen (at least as long as patriarchy exists)
actually, you don’t, asshole. From Pharyngula Standards and Practices:
tangsm, here’s some details. It’s not a list written into law; it’s policy set by HHS and the Affordable Care Act requires insurers to follow this policy.
So while the current policy appears to apply specifically to women’s birth control, if the FDA approves something for men then it would just require another policy update to change. No more legislation required.
Bad part: this means the next time the Republicans win the Presidency, this policy ends immediately.
Tethys,
Obviously a point made for effect, but there’s plenty of green in LA. I’ve got pictures to prove it :) But yes, it’s unfortunately largely privilege-based (e.g., in the more expensive towns/parts of town) or in less-than-easy-to-reach places like the canyons.
Still, if you know where to look, it’s there. Most natives (which is a very small subset of locals) know where to look.
Richard Austin
You just said what I said but with more words. The point I was making is that people of faith don’t have confidence in any human beings including themselves to resolve problems.
If you all can’t tell by now I am on the side of atheism.
When I was younger, I watched Ed Sullivan and Bonanza on Sunday nights.
There were Kraft™ commercials.
All of them involved Kraft™ Miracle Whip™ and Miniature Marshmallows™
no wieners.
I think most of us here assumed that to be the case, seeing as you’re reading and commenting on this blog.
Richard
I loved all the horticultural variety! I normally find lawn to be boring and tedious. I had never really considered how much it influences my environment.
What does really matter?
People with mental retardation are not a fucking joke and shouldn’t be used as some kind of insult. You can say what you want, but using “retard” isn’t going to get you much respect around here. Learning not to be such an ass will get you some respect.
Maybe not. See that number up there, CCXXXX? How many endless threads have you commented on before? In that context, what do you think it means to have a good start?
Sam Salerno:
Actually, you specifically said…
… which is exclusive of self. I was clarifying that it usually starts with self; lack of faith in others is a predictable consequence of that. Hence, I was not restating what you said with more words.
You also missed or avoided the rest of the comment, but that’s not necessarily surprising. I was trying to be subtle, after all.
People believe in gods because the brain tends to see agency where there is no agency.
No more complicated hypothesis is required.
It’s not because they are afraid of death, although certain memes can teach them to be afraid of death.
It’s not because they don’t have confidence in their fellow humans, although they can learn not to have confidence in their fellow humans.
It’s not because they can judge other people for not acting as the gods demand, although this is some delicious icing.
Take all that away, and the agency-detection will still be there.
One day i dreamed I was a butterfly or was it a moth. Either way nothing on this post matters anyway. It’s moving way to fucking fast.
I don’t see what worms would be there, certainly not coming from me. The reason I posed it as a hypothetical was because it seems tragically unlikely to me too at this point in time. I was just curious how set in stone the policy was, and how flexible it was for a male pill or vasectomies to be tacked on. As much as curiosity kills the cat, these are usually great threads for people who’ve done way more reading than I have. CNN doesn’t exactly put a lot of deep thought into the future of these announcements. Planned Parenthood’s facebook has been a much more efficient way of keeping up with the developments.
Whelp, that deflated my “Hey, they did something useful!” balloon, but putting this kind of thing on the public radar, and winning even once… pretty outstanding.
@Tethys: your source is very wrong. Echindas are native to Australia and New Guinea, nowhere near Europe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echidna
Oh I don’t know about that. Rorschach used it on TET just the other day, and he’s getting nominated for a Molly.
Yeah, I just sat there and hoped that someone else felt like arguing about it.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA
new to pharyngula?
Grammar RWA:
Oh, no doubt that the mechanisms for the construction of “causes” for the various perceived effects exists in the brain. It’s the whole basis for how we learn anything (pattern recognition), just allowed to “run amok” in a sense.
That doesn’t mean that faith is the automatic result, however. We all have the same mechanisms, but not all of us seek out faith. I really do think that for a lot of those who do seek out faith, it’s heavily influenced by a desire for the comforting, all-powerful parental figure who can “kiss the boo boos and make them go away”, though sometimes wrapped in more sophisticated language.
A big factor of that is probably fear of death, which may be why a lot of religion seems to focus on really happy afterlives. But it’s probably too late in the evening for me to put together a cogent argument on the subject.
More like: new to the internet? Seriously, where are you commenting that moves slower than this?
tangsm: there’s at least one other reproductive rights policy which turns on and off depending on who’s President.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico_City_Policy
sometimes it slips through. it’s impossible for every single usage to get noticed; certainly I haven’t noticed the instance you’re referring to. When you see someone use it or other slurs, do point it out; even and especially when it’s a regular
Oops, echidna, not echinda. Alll hale Tpyos!
Who are these seekers? I’ve never met one.
Everyone I know who believes in God was indoctrinated into it as a child.
Hey guess what I’m used to being attacked.
“consciousness razor”.- Life matters. I apologize for the retarded statement. I do care about people with special needs. I was just referring to the fact that this thread was going nowhere. As far as how many endless threads I’ve commented on, I’m pretty sure it’s pretty close to as many as you have commented on as there haven’t really been many to comment on.
Richard- Why argue my point. It’s valid.
Gram- I’ve read psychological books on belief. My take is that people are not confident int in people, which is why they choose god over people. That is my opinion. I don’t care if you agree or not.
See the roman numerals on the title? Perhaps you weren’t a regular on the SciBlogs Pharyngula?
Reading a few books doesn’t make you an expert on a subject.
GrammarRWA, I’ve met enough of them to know they exist. Mostly they seem to be people who were in some serious trouble in life – drug addicts, alcoholics, etc. Or one of my friends who’s life-long ambition as a dancer was shattered by an accident. The churches are very good at preying on the weak. You have to wonder how many would still do “charity” if they couldn’t use it to evangelise.
Grammar RWA:
You’ve never met someone who’s bounced around between religions and/or “new age” woo? That’s a classic easy example – I can think of three people I know right off the top of my head. I also have known a lot of Catholics who started out pretty lax in the religion (the easter-and-christmas types) who, as they get older, seem to get more and more into it. We could also go into the whole “born again” phenomenon, but I think that’s mostly self-explanatory.
I’d say that, yes, many (most?) people who end up in a religion were indoctrinated as children, but even they may actively seek out faith (one doesn’t have to be outside the religion to do so).
ARGH. I do know how to use “whose” and “who’s” correctly. Damnit.
A crash course into the cognitive science of religion, specifically creationism:
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?cites=1482070039553840102
there have been 240 of them, over the course of several years.
Yeah, I never said I was an expert. But I don’t believe you are either.
Well yippee for you Gram. What do want a cookie.
Can we get into a conversation here. Or does it all have to be ego trip. Go ahead, highlight it and repress it. That’s great conversation stuff.
actually, let me correct that; the endless thread was born on February 5th 2009, so it’s just over 2 years old.
I guess, Cath, but I wonder how many of them actually disbelieved in God beforehand. It seems like the real “I used to be an atheist” set is vanishingly small.
hello all :)
(o>(/)_
Ben:
Hey! Throw Mad Max, Day Of The Triffids* and Dragonslayer into a pot with tanks, Marines and machine guns. Sprinkle liberally with ham and cheese and bake in a hot Matthew McConaghey for 2 hours. What’s not to love?
* the 80s BBC miniseries, not the execrable 50s movie.
Tethys:
lewhut? They’re monotremes only found in Australia.
Yes, and?
I’m using Firefox 3 (in Vector Linux) and I see no numbers.
No, I’m not. But I wan’t trying to seem like one.
Is there some way of getting rid of the grey toolbar thingumajigger at the top?
Sam:
Because specifics matter and I felt that a clarification or refinement of your first statement might be useful/interesting to discuss. If you don’t want to discuss it, why bring it up?
I was also trying to make a point which you missed, but that’s okay as others have made it more plainly.
Grow up, Sam. Your being able to say whatever you want (which is true only if the Overlord deems it so) has absolutely no bearing on any part of this conversation. You came in here with an entitled, obnoxious attitude, slinging ableist slurs, while, as an added bonus, clearly having absolutely no idea where you were or what was going on. Since then, you haven’t dropped the attitude, you’ve just become increasingly defensive – sprinkles for the cupcake. Not impressed. If you have something of substance to offer the conversation, back off, drop the attitude, say it, and be prepared to defend it. Soundbites won’t survive long here. Welcome to the shark tank.
Richard, their blog thing is definitely wrong :) It’s for the Grammy Foundation, although I don’t really know what that is.
@drbunsen:
Did you just read this whole thread before commenting?
what sort of conversation do you expect there to be when you’re response consists of saying “I don’t care whether you agree or not”? It’s pretty much a giveaway that that you’re not looking to find out whether your opinion has any merit
I went to church for a little over a month in gradeschool. My mother dislikes religion, but never discussed it with me, and my father never voiced an opinion either. By the second grade I was obsessed with my big book of greek mythology and Aesop’s fables, and was schooled on the term “allegory”. But all of my friends were getting out of school on Wednesday afternoons to go to church. So I asked my parents if I could go to church, and my mother said absolutely, let me pick a church, and signed me up. I had a lot of fun, ate cookies, played foosball with the very pleasant pastor, watched kids movies (mostly Disney), and sang cutesy songs. Then we’d have bible study day, with this woman who would explain bible stories to us, and we’d learn morality lessons from them. And I had no idea it was completely un-okay for my poor little child mind to equate this with the myths and fables I loved, and delightedly talk about the allegory of it until I got chewed out for saying, “Of course, Jonah and the whale could never happen. The size of whale you’re describing are filter feeders, and no person can LIVE in a stomach…” She then silenced me, told me that the word of god was not to be questioned, and that speaking against the bible was a horrible thing to do. I went home and told my mom I wasn’t going back to church. My public school never voiced displeasure at my being able to discuss and analyze allegory.
TLDR version: I’m not sure people seek out faith, so much as they seek out social acceptance or just religion. I think faith is maybe an aftermath if you’re capable of putting up with the crap that comes with the faithful. I was not. I’ve seen a lot of people do the stepping stone though. “I don’t like the strictness of catholicism, so I’ll try lutheranism… I’m more spiritual than religious, I’ll try buddhism… I feel like pissing off my fundie father, I’ll join wicca…” I guess that’s another form of seekers, but I think they were looking for a way to cling to faith more than seeking it itself.
I’m probably thinking way too much about this. No more wine tonight.
O hai, new & improved Thread.
Um. How did you manage to get the avatars/pics next to your ‘nyms? Or do they only happen if you link from a web page with the image? (I’m sure I saw earlier an image download option somewhere, as I was registering in, but naturally cannot find it now. Or my memory is failing me yet again…)
Wait, what? I just previewed my comment and now it shows a rather pink, um, thingy? Where did that come from? Is that me? Looks like FSM =)
Comment numbers weren’t coming up in Chromium/Debian 12.0.742.112, but Stylebot (a plugin allowing easy sitewide .CSS twiddling) allowed an easy fix–just layered that decimal attribute into .commentlist li elements’ list-style, and all good.
(/There’s probably some method–probably also a plugin–vanilla Chromium is pretty bare bones–that allows you to tell it which rendering you want, too, to force the print or handheld version appear, I haven’t found that yet.)
It’s like it’s his first day on the internet.
My bad. I’ll stop and listen.
Cath
For some reason my brain was confabulating echidna with erinacea. Hedgehogs. (damn aging brain and tiny type!)
@ drbunsen: There’s a setting in Profile to turn off the grey toolbar thingie… Uncheck “Show Admin Bar” “when using site”.
That’s just the default avatar. You can change it by clicking on it and adding your own picture to a gravitar account.
lol! and @Minnie – the cartoony monsters are custom-generated defaults that Gravatar gives to everyone who would otherwise be blank. But you got lucky with yours!
Hai Minnie! Your monster is so cute, you could keep it! It will be unique to your email address. You can set your own pic at gravatar.com if you prefer.
Thank you jadehawk for the history info on endless threads
Cipher:
Very strange. I guess the roadie on their blog isn’t necessarily their roadie.
The Grammy Foundation is a (I think) non-profit put on by the Recording Academy (which does the Grammys, a kind of musical Academy Awards) for the purpose of promoting recorded music and its place in culture. It’s kind of a silly thing, really – it’s only been around 20 years or so, and I think it’s mostly there as a tax dodge. But still, they do charity events.
GrammasRWA, I am guessing that you are American. If you are raised with atheism as a kind of unthought default, then you’ll find that the atheists around you aren’t all critical thinking people.
Sam: contributes nothing to the thread; demands to be entertained; complains about everything.
Sounds like a pretty decent troll to me.
imagine a bunch of LordOfTheFlies kiddies singing:
who’s the first in the dungeon?
who’s the first in the dungeon?
who’s the first in the dungeon?
———
On this Thread, say?
drbunsen le savant fou:
If you go to your dashboard profile, there are two buttons to show your “Admin Bar” (that thingumajigger). Deselect the one that says “when viewing site” then go to the bottom of the screen and click “Update Profile.”
Random thought: when I was little and it was getting past my bed time, my mother would always joke about “you’ll turn into a pumpkin”. I just thought of that (as it’s way past when I should have been in bed). The horses (and I think the coachmen) turned into mice; it was the carriage that turned back into the pumpkin. Does that mean my mom thought I was a carriage?
fuck it, I’m going to sleep. Not going to get anything else done tonight. Let’s hope the CSS will work better by tomorrow.
Also, everyone don’t be too mean to Sam, he seems to be functioning normally now.
Ah, I see it didn’t take long for the first pompous asshat to turn up.
So: agency-detection is agreed cognitive basis?
Not all are indoctrinated by parents but we do grow up immersed in a culture where agency-detection is socially reinforced; people talk about it and it’s rare that they’re mocked for it.
I suggest: this is sufficient to explain faith. The person tends to see agency; others tell the person that their assumptions about agency are correct; nothing more is required.
All else is icing. There are extra rewards for being a certain kind of believer, but a baseline of faith is explained by most people nodding along at others’ agency-detection.
Talk of insecurity regarding own or others’ ability is just multiplying beyond necessity.
I ought to get to bed too. I’ve got 6 hours straight of meetings tomorrow, starting at 8 am. Oooh, lucky me. At least I can take my notebook in.
See you folks (with the l pronounced) in the morning.
Starstuff91- I never demanded to be entertained. I just thought if it was a P.Z. Myers endless thread that it would have more substance. And frankly, I’m still not impressed.
The most interesting thing I’ve heard so far is Tangsm’s view on her religious experience.
Ah this thread is moving fast isn’t it?
My bad, Sam, I retract my jibe above.
In my defence, some of us are on a bit of hair trigger after Recent Unpleasantness. Sorry for jumping the gun.
Okay, I have to admit HADD hyperactive agency detection device thing is pretty interesting.
and some of us are distracted by trying to mess with settings, or tab between multiple sites; and some of us are just stupid from lack of sleep (hi!)
@sam: When you entered this thread many people were still trying to understand how everything on this new site works. If you hadn’t come in acting like an ass, we probably would be talking about something more interesting. But instead we’re stuck responding to your idiotic comments.
What are you referring to?
Yes but Australia is only roughly twice as irreligious. It’s still very possible to talk about illusory agents without being mocked for it.
Sam, this is a social space; it’s for socializing. It’s not supposed to be deep or anything; that’s what the other threads are for. if you don’t like socializing, don’t fucking comment on the social thread. if you do want to socialize, start an interesting conversation and don’t get pissy at people arguing your point, because what else is there to do with an interesting point, other than argue it?
anyway, now I’m really logging off.
Grammar RWA:
I think an argument could be made that insecurity makes one more willing to be “nodding along at others’ agency-detection” – e.g., more willing to ignore evidence in favor of something that provides some kind of psychological comfort – and thus increases the likelihood of someone belonging to a faith or in fact actively seeking a faith that can be used to “justify” such comfort (whether they actually believe it or not is probably a different issue). I think that was more what I meant by someone seeking faith, though I just came to that clarification in my own head so I certainly didn’t present it that way. Which means I really should go to bed, hopefully to continue this later.
Anyway, night.
I’ll hold my virtue very firmly by myself… lol.
Pteryxx – LOVE the nym.
(and now I’m really off to bed)
Alright, So can we get to cool ass scientific shit now. Or maybe some anti-theism stuff. Please
Sam, truly, you are the least impressive person here.
Under siege by a wave of trolls, ranging from merely painfully obtuse to overtly misogynistic, for the last month. Extremely taxing and stressful for a lot of us.
Hi, New Endless Thread. I am here.
I am certain you are all thrilled.
Oh, glad I missed that. I only started commenting here (or at the other site) recently.
I think I might read Why People Believe Weird Things by Michael Shermer after I finish my current book. Has anyone else read this?
More likely! I certainly agree with this. I just think it’s not necessary, and not present in all cases, so I reject the categorical statement that this is what’s going on with “people of faith”.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/blogs/lab-notes/2008/10/02/feeling-powerless-do-i-have-a-conspiracy-theory-for-you.html
That’s funny, because as impressive as I am I have not heard any good scientific discussion. But I will leave and watch in hopes of seeing some good scientific conversation here.
I did mean unimpressive
Yay! Finally we won’t have to listen to you.
You’re not getting it, Sam. This is a social space. People come in here to relax and chat with each other on a variety of topics. If you have something you’d like to talk about, try actually bringing something to the conversation. People can respond or not at their leisure.
Damn, I need a killfile.
Nine days til my final. It’s a little scary, but I’m on track. All I really need to worry about now is financial aid and housing for next semester…
I recall discussions saying it’s a very mixed bag.
What are you studying?
Aww. The reason I buy geeky shower gifts for friends is just so they’ll be forced to send me the baby photos of the kid wearing them… with gratuitous boob shot apparently.
The closeup of what’s on the shirt is here.
Okay I’ve gotten myself an account. Caine, are you on here?
@Grammar RWA:
Ah, I see. Do you have any suggestions for books that are on the same subject?
I’m in a strangely good mood this morning and will try to break it a bit gently to you Sam.
It goes like this:
This is the endless thread – it’s used mainly for chatter that would be OT in other threads. People are here for their own amusement, not their own. That means requests for topics will probably be ignored and makes you look like an entitled little [insert your favorite non-gendered insult here].
You got two options:
1: The scienceblogs site has an archive. With comments that ought to keep you busy for at least half a year.
2: If you want something to be discussed here – make a post about it. “I just did” you say? No, it’s not that easy. If you want to use others time you got to make an effort and make a post about it that makes others want to respond. It can be very hard work, especially if you’re new and haven’t got a feeling for what people like to talk about and what’s been beaten to death before. Which brings us back to 1…
Arrgh – typo:
Should of course read People are here for their own amusement, not yours
*hangs head in shame*
Hi JediBear :) I’m thrilled!
Gyeong Hwa, Caine has made some appearances over here, but I don’t think she’s here right at the moment.
Yeah, starstuff, probably better to have missed it. I mean, it was good in a way because I think we got through to some people, and the discussions needed to be had (and I’m sure they’ll continue) but it really was a big pile of toxic stress. It even broke Caine’s organs! Also, I’m taking intensive first-year Greek at the moment. It’s not as bad as I thought it would be. Actually, now that I’ve settled in a bit, I’m really enjoying it.
My brain elided this for some reason! Sorry about that. I’m here for maybe a year, hopefully longer. Taking a program at UCLA, getting ready to apply for grad schools. This is the one I want to go to, but one step at a time.
Speaking of which, I’d better get to bed so I can pass my quiz tomorrow. Goodnight Thread!
JediBear
I am.
Hi all!
Long time lurker here, posting for the first time.
Just thought I’d take a moment to say that I’ve learned a lot from reading the comments of others, and I’m hoping (though I’m not convinced) that I might be able to contribute to the community in some way.
Hopefully not to help make coats sninier…
Not so sure about this. I think the casual heuristics we’re naturally equipped with to determine what constitutes evidence just aren’t very reliable. So as in the Whitson and Galinsky study mentioned above (with more here), the subjects aren’t “ignoring” evidence so much as giving primary attention to some things which seem more salient than others.
But this:
I think I more or less agree with. So long as we’re talking likelihood and not categorical necessity.
Hi JediBear. It’s starting to feel like breaking in new shoes. People are finding all the rub spots.
On the plus side, I found you a photo.
http://comedy.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2010/06/Screen-shot-2010-06-16-at-2.49.14-PM-150×150.png
Hmmm, my avatar should be that of a famous painting by Emperor Huizong of Song not some weird brain thingy.
Classical Cipher
Thanks for the info.
I’m not sure I can get use to this. It lags just as much as SB. On the other hand, we’re free to hand out as much vitriol as we want.
I’m not quite convinced about the national comparisons of religiosity. There’s a lot of different measures. But we definitely have very different attitudes to atheism. In Australia it’s pretty much ho-hum. Our Prime Minister is an atheist. In the US, it seems to spark claims that you’re some kind of evil baby-eating demon and should be shunned or killed.
So the people who choose to identify as atheist despite that heavy social pressure are a lot more strong-willed and thoughtful than their counterparts in countries where no such battle is required. In other words, American atheists are, in general, smarter than those in other countries :) It’s a selection bias. (This is a Greta Christina argument,btw, which I find convincing.)
Pikachu
what’n’hell is that? avatarwise?
mine’s a kitty!
Not that broad a subject, I’m afraid. Shermer attempted a rather massive undertaking, it seems.
My usual recommend on religion is Pascal Boyer’s Religion Explained, but obviously the topic is much narrower.
I was just about to read Cass Sunstein on conspiracy theories, but I haven’t, and I have no idea if it’s any good. (But at least it’s free.)
@Cath:
I wish the US could be more accepting about atheism. I feel like there’ll never be an atheist president. And the polls seem to agree with me: http://atheism.about.com/od/atheistbigotryprejudice/a/AtheistSurveys.htm
@The Sky is a Wheel:
RAAARARRRGH
*leaps on your comment numbers, devours them, and replaces them with two buttons and half a banana*
(that was friendly greeting ;> )
Sam, did you miss the bit where this is the *social* thread? For the regulars to hang out and shoot the breeze?
It’s hard to take your complaint about the quality of conversation remotely seriously if you don’t *read*.
@Grammar:
Thanks for the suggestions. Free is almost always good (because if it’s bad, at least you didn’t waste money on it).
Hi The Sky is a Wheel. Do you have a preferred shorthand name? Sky, TSW?
Alas, bad news for higher education with the debt deal: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44009198/ns/business-personal_finance/
tangsm
Oh, you have excellent taste in baby presents.
Wish they’d had geeky things like that when our kids were still young enough to get cloths as gifts.
starstuff91 says:
I plead Zeno’s Paradox.
tangsm, I enjoyed your story. Thanks.
pterryx, consciousness razor: Thanks, toolbar gone :)
Cath the Canberra Cook says:
Whoooo ain’t that the truth.
Grammar RWA says:
Hmmm, interesting. I could see a kind of runaway cultural feedback ratcheting initially small agency attributions all the way up to Sky Fairy over time.
/looks around
Do we?
Grammar RWA says:
I see no mock in Cath’s comment.
While –
– even the religious-identifying aren’t *that* religious.
IIRC, 60% of the *total* US population is in church every weekend?
Many put down the religious affiliation of their parents on the census (because “that’s what you do” on forms) while they may no longer have any religion themselves. Hence the “No Religion” campaign for the upcoming Census. Compared to the US religion is not nearly such a dominant part of the social or political landscape. I have had my eyes opened (through this blog in particular) to the harassment and persecution faced by US atheists. Here, growing up atheist is much more common, and to a large part even religion is a big *meh* to most of us. It’s certainly not something that is considered polite to go around shoving in everyone else’s face.
Who are all these people??
Welcome.
Welcome.
grog’s over here….
Or, yeah, what Cath said.
Phew. Fast thread is fast.
That’s Neil Gaiman in the background behind Josh Ritter there. In the same appearance Neil and Josh decide that Emily Dickenson was a monster Cephalopod!
Err, CLOTHES as gifts – not cloths – although mom did get some washcloths as gifts at the baby shower – gag.
You’re pretty well crammed into cities, aren’t you? Find a city in the USA as large as Melbourne, and I think you’ll find that atheism is pretty ho-hum there as well.
Remember a lot of the US news you get from Pharyngula is about podunk flyover hellholes. Sheep-shaggers, the lot of ’em.
There’s probably something to this, but what I expect remains true about Australia is that illusory agent detection is still largely not scorned, so a person who reports these biases will often not be mocked for it. This should be sufficient to allow the persistence of faith.
For people with gravatars, you can click on the picture and see it bigger.
Any idea how it affects undergraduate loans? The article only mentions graduate loans and pell grants.
Nice bird Gyeong Hwa
I like birds
I should specify that probably counts as ignoring, but I think it’s going on at a pretty low level of the brain, well before consciousness.
hotshoe: I bought the print when I got the baby gear. Tiffany Ard is great no matter what your age is.
This is a test. Wibble.
Gyeong Hwa:
I’m here. Been here on and off from the start. The lack of comment numbers is particularly irritating when it comes to TET.
Also, wants killfile.
Anyway, how are you doing?
http://www.suntimes.com/business/6867697-420/4-ways-the-debt-deal-could-hurt-college-students.html
More info. Apparently undergard subsidized loans are safe for the moment, but discounts and tax breaks are going bye bye.
Gavin McBride:
Do not link youtube, please. Stupid wordpress automatically embeds the damn things.
Well, not bye bye, but I’m guessing decreased significantly.
Well, at least I don’t have to worry about being homeless for now.
Chigau
Here is the detailed pic. It’s one of my favorite paintings. Other artists that I enjoy form that period are Yi Yuanji, Ma Yuan and Ma Lin.
The Sky is a Wheel:
Don’t underestimate yourself – Welcome to TET, Sky!
We do:
Neither do I, so you’re apparently missing some of my point, but what I’m saying is that if people can express their illusory agent detection without being mocked for it, then it passes along in a way that expressing belief in smurfs does not, and is thus socially reinforced.
? Citation? I do not think you remember anywhere near correctly.
Same here. But not practicing ritual does not mean not believing in illusory agents.
It really depends a lot on the region. Please understand it’s not all rural Texas.
And before we get way, way off the earlier topic, are the ones who grow up atheist typically turning religious? If not, then this supports my claims.
Is it more common than not to mock people in meatspace who mention that they believe in God? If not, then this supports my claims
Caine,
I’m good. Keeping busy. I don’t know why but it seems slower here. Perhaps it is Internet Explorer.
Oh yeah check your email. I have something for you.
Gyeong Hwa Pak @somedamnnumber re avatar
That is a very lovely picture.
mine’s a kitty!!!
What is known is that US Americans lie about how often they go to church.
Several reasonable estimates say about 20% attended church in any given week.
I suspect with BHO you’ve got as close as you’re likely to get for some time: reading between the lines I strongly suspect the current incumbent is a stealth atheist who at a relatively young age discovered he needed to wrap himself in the appearance of religiosity to be an electable candidate. Though I very much doubt he would demur from using the religious language once his second term is underway or once he begins to be viewed as a “lame duck” (which always seems to occur a ridiculous amount of time before the guy leaves office).
I think the only way that an out-and-out atheist could become POTUS would have to involve one of the very strange ways in which a President and his/her Veep could be replaced – I’m thinking about the Richard Nixon/Spiro Agnew term, where separate scandals meant that the power passed on to Gerald Ford/Nelson Rockefeller.
@ chigau http://xkcd.com/231/
https://fullymyelinated.wordpress.com/2010/12/24/social-desirability-and-church-attendance/
“Beyond the polls, social scientists have conducted more rigorous analyses of religious behavior. Rather than ask people how often they attend church, the better studies measure what people actually do. The results are surprising. Americans are hardly more religious than people living in other industrialized countries. Yet they consistently—and more or less uniquely—want others to believe they are more religious than they really are.”
Gyeong, it’s going to be on the slow side until the new server is in place, which will be a few days. Even so, this is still going much faster for me than Sciborg.
Ooooh. Will do. Probably won’t hear back until tomorrow, I need to get to bed, it’s almost 3 a.m. here.
@Philip:
I agree with that. I should have said “openly atheist”.
Mike Huckabee is a special kind of crazy:
http://gothamist.com/2011/08/03/video_911_the_kids_cartoon_brought.php
Pteryxx, hider of comment numbers,
Squeal! I feel at home already :)
tangsm,
Um… don’t mind!
Caine, Ghetto féministe,
Sure, that’ll do!
A little bit about myself… I’m in England, I’m 34, I’m a programmer (yayyyyyyyy NOT) and I enjoy curries, creative writing, games, and arguing annoyingly with anyone about any and all forms of beliefs.
Just checking Gravatar.
Wishlist:
Killfile
Comment numbers
A way of highlighting the grand professor poopyhead’s posts.
Back at SB the highlighted posts always made id feel a bit Cecil B DeMille/god speaks, if you know what I mean.
The Sailor
No, that’s macho bullshit. Just run.
@ Gyeong Hwa Pak
I switched pics when yours reminded me of this. Hope you don’t mind the copying of concept. If you do, I will switch back.
Sky:
You’ll fit in just fine here! Now, I’m off to bed. Really. Truly. All that.
Well that’s weird. I’m seeing the new pic everywhere but when I look here. Meh.
*dusts off a cowboy hat*
I do enjoy watching how much the USA horrifies furreigners.
60% weekly churchgoers! Holy Jesus, let’s make bank.
What do you think we are, a nuclear-armed third-world nation?
Don’t answer that.
I think you’re more likely to be mocked for being religious in Australia than the US, but it’s still pretty rude. Unless you’re getting in someone’s face about Jebus, in which case fair’s fair.
But my point wasn’t that a large number of atheists were converting or seeking spirituality or whatevs – just that *some* of them do. And probably there’s more who do that in places where atheism is less of a thought-out position. “No true atheist” isn’t really a good argument. Being rational in some ways doesn’t guarantee that you’ll be rational in every way.
And I went to work today! Woohoo! Only for 4 hours, but still. A few zillion emails to clear, but I even managed to get some data set specs written up and discover that FTB is not banned at work. Hurrah!
Non-embedded link to “Mr. Deity and the Believing Brain”
Okay, unless my preview’s wrong, it appears you can link to a video without embedding it. You’ll have to be a bit less lazy and make the link display some text, rather than dump a bare url in your comment, like so:
<a href=”url”>DISPLAY TEXT HERE</a>
Who hasn’t been here?
Oh, I made the mistake of linking to the next set of videos from that page.
“Wow you can really see how every American pulled together to win this war! Even the gals were in on it!”
“You go girl!”
And for only half the pay! Just to be promptly fired when the boys came back. You go girl!
I’m sure his next video will amend his WWII video to include how much fun the Japanese-Americans had being uprooted and placed in internment camps, and show Reagan’s apology with that same annoying music in the background.
How about this:
http://memebase.com/thanks/?imageUrl=http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2011/8/3/142f4d94-0644-47f6-9ea3-d74aca6dc4a3.jpg
Feh. I’ll never keep up if my browser keeps spontaneously borking on me.
Anyone seen our resident juggalo scholar?
.
Classical Cipher says:
Yeeeesh!! Good luck with all of the above.
.
Greetings JediBear, The Sky Is A Wheel. Pull up a couch, have some grog.
JediBear – another picture for you:
http://www.buildabear.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m40495_15450_15287_14987L.jpg
.
Book suggestions: how about The Demon-Haunted World? I haven’t read it myself but it came to mind. Anyone here read it?
I’ve read it. I love it. One of my favorite books.
I think this is possible because “you’re more likely to be mocked for being religious in Australia than the US, but it’s still pretty rude.” It is thus socially reinforced.
What’s necessary and sufficient to explain faith, I think:
Not all are indoctrinated by parents but we do grow up immersed in a culture where agency-detection is socially reinforced; people talk about it and it’s rare that they’re mocked for it.
The person tends to see agency; others tell the person that their assumptions about agency are correct; nothing more is required.
So we don’t need to look to other explanations for why faith happens, although I think I agree with Richard Austin that there are other factors which explain the degree of prevalence.
*nods*
cf liber… nah I won’t do it in this thread.
“Obama: Debt Ceiling Deal Required Tough Concessions By Both Democrats And Democrats Alike” http://www.theonion.com/articles/obama-debt-ceiling-deal-required-tough-concessions,21067/
Alas, The Onion got it more accurately than the pundits…
btw, there’s a place for book suggestions on the wiki:
http://pharyngula.wikia.com/wiki/Books,_science
more than science books, too:
http://pharyngula.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Books
Not in a couple days.
I don’t want to know what he’s been doing with all that Faygo.
Lyn M,
Why would I mind? lol. :D
@ Gyeong Hwa Pak
I don’t know why you would, but sometimes people do, so I made the offer. Thanks!
That little bird always looks so happy. I used to have it on a wallpaper on my phone and it always made me smile. Not as subtle a picture as yours, but I thought it very spirited. It is one of those originals where a man did a water colour which he sold, but he does them over and over, just the one. He is good at it though.
I’m trying to counteract the stupidity of Huckabee’s videos by watching Colbert imitate a T-Rex trying to put on a condom. I feel better.
http://gawker.com/5827580/stephen-colbert-exposes-the-dangers-of-government+funded-birth-control
Word.
–
Grammar RWA says:
Ah, ok, I get the point you were making now. Thanks for the clarifier.
Well, according to the graph at the top of your link, in general, no.
Fair call. I was thinking more of smaller attributions that haven’t attained the status of sanctity yet.
Thanks, that was an informative link.
Very interesting. And do they also believe the same about America as whole (that it is more religious than other comparable nations)?
Someone in The Other Place* coined a name for that. Metamyth or something – the myth about what myths “everyone else” believes.
Heeeee :) Have we mentioned the drop bears and carnivorous trees yet? :p
/ stuffs fist in mouth.
(* one of the strange rituals of the Westminster system)
–
Phillip Legge says:
While I’ve had that thought myself, that’s not hugely different to “reading between the lines I strongly suspect the current incumbent is a stealth Muslim”. I’m inclined to take him at his word. (Yeah, a politician, I know right?)
–
starstuff91 says:
http://gothamist.com/2011/08/03/video_911_the_kids_cartoon_brought.php
… what
–
Cath says:
And I went to work today! Woohoo!
Woohoo!!
I left the house yesterday.* OK, so I only went as far as McDonald’s** to leech their wifi and watch Sky News, but it’s a start :)
(* at least I think it was yesterday)
(** I know, I know, it’s the only thing open within walking distance at 3am)
Ok, is my avatar still the pink thingie? Or am I Shifty in his ‘talk to the paw, the ears aren’t listening’ pose?
Oh, I am. Nice.
Sorry, exploding carnivorous trees.
Speaking as a total, utter and complete technoklutz – or possibly technosaur – is there/might there someday be a nice little easy-to-find button on the front page to take people like me and my fellow antediluvians straight to some help and FAOs including How To Make The Numbering Show Up and How To Do Permissible formatting/fonts/colours/other nice stuff? So we (well, I. I’m only guessing that some other people may be as klutzy as I am) don’t annoy and waste people’s time asking dumb questions? (Does this qualify? Is that question a recursive …..?)
I only just managed to have Fun with French, lightyears behind all the cool kids (still cool, though!).
(still playing catchup on the old thread)
Lynna, your #567 and #569 (Jeffs trial) is just horrifying. Why do I sometimes suspect that kiddy fiddling is the whole point of starting a
religioncult?There is the current high court challenge in Australia to protest against the taxpayers funding chaplains in state schools. Personally I think the government thought it could get some cheap pseudo-councillors out of it. Theoretically they are not meant to be doing any converting or anything like that. However some leaked information suggests they are, or at least bending the rules like crazy.
I will note however that my High School had a chaplain that I think was not tax payer funded as such. No idea since it was mumble mumble years ago now. On the plus side it was my encounters with her that brought me to the realisation that I wasn’t religious.
We still have some religious loonies down here, but I don’t think to quite the extent the USA has.
(ex-Scot Australian, physicist, geek)
As for numbers see here: https://proxy.freethought.online/pharyngula/2011/08/03/episode-ccxxxx-the-new-endless-thread/#comment-1661
PZ is currently working on the pretty stuff. https://proxy.freethought.online/pharyngula/2011/08/03/yes-but-its-royal-and-noble-snake-oil/#comment-1246
Regarding the re-make of The Thing:
It is well that there is no Swede in the film, as a Swede would have been turned off by the bad special effects of the previous film (with Kurt Russell) and boycotted the (whole) Thing. Lots of Norwegians and Danes, though.
Zombies; they would have stumbled around until they were frozen solid by the low temperatures, resulting in a very short film.
The absence of sunlight for half a year would be good news for vampires, so why don’t you hire a public-spirited blood drinker to chase the aliens for you? I don’t see an alien sneaking up on a vampire, not in a million years.
drbunsen:
I read that right before I went to dinner. It’s just so fucking infuriating. And then the people defending it in comments threads… seriously?
Don’t bring up marriage in the 1800s. We’re not in the fucking 1800s. This is sick. And wasn’t as popular a habit as perverts like to imply. Average age of marriage has been in the 20s for a very long time. Implying it’s okay to have intercourse with a 14 year old and then by extension a 12 year old… ugh. Jeffries is a predator in the worst sense. He takes away entire lives with his brainwashing b.s., and these girls are forced to think this is what’s SUPPOSED to be happening to them.
*Jeffs. No idea why I typed that.
Thanks for the bears, guys.
I can honestly recommend The Demon-Haunted World. It lays out the case (and the toolbox) for skepticism so clearly and shows what we’re up against so well. Reading that book made me sad to have lost Sagan’s voice in a way I had never been before.
Congrats to you and your institution, PZ! #90 on the Forbes America’s Top Colleges list!
http://www.forbes.com/colleges/university-of-minnesota-morris/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44010886/ns/local_news-minneapolis_st_paul_mn/
Thank you tangsm. Managed to add the Web Developer plug-in to my Firefox (way, waaaay beyond the universe I inhabit, much less my comfort zone), got the comment numbers to show up for a moment (that print preview look is nasty, though!), now they’re gone again and I can’t seem to get them back – which is ridiculous – did I mention I’m a technoklutz?
I think I’ll wait until the technocognoscenti have beaten it into submission with spanners, or something.
Appreciate the links, though!
I’ve never ventured into TET before, despite being a lurker of some experience and (very) occasional poster on the SB site. Now I feel all emboldened and adventurous, and ready to explore all the rooms of the new house.
So my rather naive question is this: is it anything goes in TET, or is it generally expected that one stays with the general drift of conversation, wherever that may lead? I wouldn’t want to do a huge bomb into the deep end and attract the attention of the circling piranha.
For Spotify subscribers, here’s the Spotify link to Josh Ritter’s Galahad.
Thanks for sharing this, PZM!
(previous, still)
Lynna, OM says:
Yeah. You could have stopped right there.
Caine says: Also, pretty much every main character Trevanian wrote was an insufferable snob, so if you don’t care for that sort of thing, consider yourself warned.
That’s actually the only film I want to see this year :)
And if they don’t make it as awesome as it should I’m bound to be one angry internet commentator.
Damn, posted half a post. Rerun:
(previous, still)
Lynna, OM #628:
Yeah. You could have stopped right there.
–
Caine #632:
Writing in an even earlier, possibly even more sexist period (1940s-50s UK) and in global-catastrophe science fiction, not thrillers, John Wyndam had a succession of strong female characters in his works. The background sexism of the period certainly shows, but he managed to work with that as part of his plot development. They were usually ether in, or progressed towards, somewhat orthodox romantic relationships with the male lead, but they were always portrayed – and regarded by their male counterpart – as being intellectual, moral and professional equals.
The early chapters of The Trouble With Lichen (brilliant young female research biochemist goes to work in a male-dominated, cloistered research institute) have some amusing parallels with recent shenanigans.
I recommend The Trouble With Lichen – less well known than his other works (Day Of The Triffids, The Kraken Wakes, The Midwich Cuckoos {aka Village Of The Damned} etc), it’s an interesting working out of the consequences – personal, political, economic, gender relations – of the discovery of an immortality pill.
They all make good, engaging medium-weight summer reading too :)
Doubting T #659:
Oooh!! That reminds me: for hilarious spoofs of the Boy’s Own Adventures In High British Imperialism style, check out the Flashman series.
–
slignot #636:
Yeah, look – is it just me or is Deckard’s “seduction” of Rachel in Bladerunner pretty unambiguously rape? And of a three year old at that.
–
Relevant question is relevant.
Right /dusts off hands. Now to catch up with this thread.
Birger Johanssen says:
No. Just no.
Bad? That was the apotheosis of the stop-motion, corn syrup and latex school of film-making, IMHO. I like my Things to look like things, not digital cartoons.
tangsm says:
You’re welcome :)
The more I find out of his work, the more I concur.
Birger Johansson says:
What? Blasphemy! The effects in The Thing are amazing, especially when you consider when it was made, and that a huge proportion of it was done in-camera. None of your fancy green-screening or back projection.
I haven’t seen anyone pilloried yet for random thoughts and links, but I haven’t been posting long. Go for it, and worst case scenario, I have popcorn.
LOL. Thanks for the support. I look forward to providing you with entertainment at my expense. :)
I try to make the best of a bad situation. Sometimes that means schadenfreude.
Ugh… I feel terrible today, constant feeling of bleh in my stomach, and headachey, but I’m at work cause I’m digging into my negative sick leave hours yet again and I can’t be doing that.
In that case: I’m sad to see that Bubba Smith has died, aged just 66.
He was 6’7″. I’m 6’5″, and about half his width. He was one big fella.
As long as you haven’t confused them with Echinoderms ;)
But now I get the joke :)
But you are still right in some other respect. There are old and new world porcupines and they are different families. The old world porcupines are found in subtropical Asia, Africa and Southern Europe (mostly around the Tuscany).
I watched “Some Like It Hot” yesterday and a few things:
One) Holy crap that ending was hilarious! “Nobody’s perfect” may stand in legacy as one of the best ending lines in a movie ever.
Two) Tony Curtis and Jack Lemmon actually didn’t make terrible-looking women. Tony was actually very pretty, Jack needed a bit of work.
Three) If Marilyn Monroe were starting out today, she would be called “fat.” That woman had a figure – curves and everything – which you don’t see in women today, which is sad. She was a beautiful person, and she wouldn’t make it as a fashion model today. What is the whole appeal of waifish women?
Afternoon TET. Glad to be here on the new digs (I’ve been avoiding TET on the other one for the last few days as I had decided to abandon Sb Pharyngula completely…) – very sleepy after a 5am start, but finishing work at 12 is always a bonus :)
Don’t know whether this is old ground or not, but what are people’s thoughts on Matthew Chapman’s film “The Ledge”? I saw it the other day and I have mixed feelings to say the least.
Big love.
Well, since this seems to be the thread for coming out of the tall grass, hi everyone, here’s another (ex-)lurker. Been reading Pharyngula on and off for around two years and the comments and TET for one. I think I’m a better and far more socially conscious person for it, so thank you, I’m very happy that I found this place. In the bargain, I seem to have caught a voyeuristic form of the SIWOTI Syndrome (“I can’t go to sleep now, someone’s just about to be handed a decaying porcupine on the internet. Oh, let it be a rusty one!”) that sometimes threatens to turn into the full-blown disease.
Katherine:
Did you see the first plus sized model to make Vogue in Australia?
http://wishididntknow.com/2011/08/02/picture-this-%E2%80%93-australian-robyn-lawley-becomes-first-plus-size-model-to-appear-in-vogue-australia/
I’m don’t really think she looks plus sized at all, but I have a hypothesis that she’s a size 15 and actually 10 feet tall. It’s all a matter of proportion.
It is interesting that the new site has encouraged so many lurkers to de-cloak. The calm before the inevitable storm has certainly prompted me to be a bit more visible, though that may change if the collective Eye of Sauron swings my way and threatens to toast me where I stand.
Hmm, now can I squeeze any more nerd credentials into my metaphors? Perhaps later.
Oh dear.
Charles ‘Bubba’ Smith aka. Moses Hightower has died.
@tangsm:
Yea… she’s not plus-sized, she’s normal. It’s sad, really, that the average-sized woman is now being told she’s a plus. I never had to deal with a teenage life of being told that I’m too big and should slim up, but I can see how it’s affected my sister and mother and some girl-friends of mine. (Only bit of childhood trauma I was given was being told by my father to “man up” all the time. Funny that “manning up” has resulted in me going transgender XD)
*grumbles* 430 comments over night? I can’t keep up!
I’m amazed at how many men (and some women) have asked me what I’ll do if my (currently 2 year old) son turns out to be gay. My default response is to look blankly at them and say “er, hope he’s happy? What else would I do?”.
Test only
@Drawing Business:
That’s a great answer. My sister’s friend asked my dad that question a few months before I came out to him, and I was worried what his answer was – he never really answered the question. Now I know his answer is to kind of just reluctantly accept it while spouting canards about gay relationships *shrug*
Oh, and while we are fixing things, on my Safari if you clicked a link and then clicked back, it would take you to the comment you linked from. Now it just goes to the top of the page. Obviously this is terribly time consuming, especially on TET. Is it just Safari?
Congrats Audley!
Bloody well done!
I need numbers. When I leave for work, I write the comment number on my hand so I can find my place in the world when I get to work. And when I leave work, I do the same thing. Without numbers I will be lost and adrift in TET.
Welcome!
That’s… incredibly odd. Why would anyone be worried about a 2 year old’s sexuality? And what are you supposed to answer? “I’m gonna trade in for the newer model. I hear it has an ice dispenser.”
On an unrelated note:
Since we were talking about the birth control decision earlier, PPFA gives you the Bollywood Dance of Pillamina.
Idiot on the loose in the Prince Charles thread. Seems quite chewy :)
I think it may be because I’m well known for being indefatigably liberal about most issues. Some of my acquaintances seem to think that my sex-positive attitude can’t possibly apply to my own children. It’s an extension of their own NIMBY mind-set, I think. “Yeah, you can say that, but I bet you won’t think the same about your own kids”. That’s actually an almost verbatim quote from a guy I used to work with. Our philosophies didn’t mix well, shall we say?
@Drawing Business:
I guess it makes sense to some people, but by extent you thrust that to anything else that you stand for and it’s just bonkers.
“Oh sure you stand for women’s rights, but I bet you won’t let your daughter go out of the house by herself at night.”
“Oh sure you stand for environmentalism, but I bet you wouldn’t outfit your house with solar panels.”
“Oh sure you stand against animal cruelty, but I bet you enjoy a nice piece of bacon every now and then.”
Ridiculousness to the utmost.
<blockquote“Yeah, you can say that, but I bet you won’t think the same about your own kids”.
I was disconcerted, and indeed ashamed, to discover that when my then-4-year-old son adopted the persona of Katie Morag for hours at a time, it quite disturbed me. I could tell myself that this was “rational”, as transgendered people do often have a very difficult time – but of course rationally, I also knew quite well that cross-gender role play is extremely common among young children. So, an opportunity to come to terms with my transphobic tendencies!
Greetings horde, not much time:
Set 2 Mins, 8 Secs.
Still no comment numbers, boo hiss!
I like my default avatar, looks kind of like an angry potato.
From the ads
“God loves you.”
–o–
It’s adorable to watch how Rachel Maddow still seems to have some faith in humanity left. It’s gonna be so fun to see her break down and cry on air some day.
She actually thinks it’s possible the Dems might stand up for union right and not cave in to the Republans on the FAA problem.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAaaaaaaaa
Silly, silly Rachel.
Otrame says:
4 August 2011 at 6:48 am
Doesn’t happen with Firefox (5.0)
Oh hi! So… how are you holding up? Because I’m A POTATO!
Steve V,
Awe, thanks! I wasn’t expecting fireworks. ;)
Woot, my first post here! Now let me just sneak out before our lord and ruler PZ smites me back to homo erectus…
@KG:
I remember a few months ago that Fox News psychologist guy ranting and raving about the J Crew catalog with the founder’s son getting his toenails painted pink. Young boys and girls don’t have a mindset of gender roles until it’s beat into them. It’s why I was so long in coming to terms with my own gender.
I will rephrase: the special effects of the Kurt Russell version of “The Thing” were not inept, just over the top.
The film lost me at the scene where the severed head sprouted small legs. If it had deformed into a critter the size of the head, complete with species-appropriate legs it would have been another matter.
And to the credit of the film, it got the Norwegian language right. And it was soooo much better than another horror/SF film in an Antarctic setting. Yes, THAT film. Predator-Alien hybrid? (genetic paradox alert) U-ullp.
If you want to read a (retconned) SF/horror story that deserves a film treatment, see Peter Watt’s Crysis; Legion.
@Birger:
Wasn’t The Thing a book?
drbunsen le savant fou:
Prince Charles is posting in that thread?
GenghisFaun:
Nah, just some right-wing lunatic talking about Cromwell and Blair, as if the 2 are vaguely comparable. He’s gone all quiet now, which is slightly disappointing.
calling all non juggalo medical types. Or hell, CS types. How valuable is this tool?
http://thinkprogress.org/yglesias/2011/08/03/287129/melapp/
Crap. I just typed a bunch of stuff and it all disappeared. Hopefully I won’t double post. I need some advice. My son starts kindergarten in two weeks, and yesterday we headed to the library with the Cincinnati Public School District’s recommended reading list to pick out some books to read together. My wife was picking out the books while I changed the younger boy’s diaper in the rest room. She was confused as to why one book was not in the children’s section, but in juvenile non-fiction. Next to the religious books. She found the book, “All Things Bright and Beautiful”, which she did not know was the name of a Christian hymn, and she started flipping through it. She realized what kind of book it was when she got to the page that said: “The Lord God made them all”. Yeah, not pleased. Reading and discussing books with religious themes as literature is one thing, a public school district recommending a book whose words are verbatim from a Christian hymn to five year olds? That seems like promoting a religion in clear violation of the 1st Amendment to me. So I’m thinking of a letter to the school board, but is that the right target? The right action? What kinds of things should I say?
This is going to be a long 15 years.
The good news is my son also picked out a book for himself. It says things like: “The universe began about 14 billion years ago,” and, “life on earth began about three and a half billion years ago and evolved from single celled organisms in the oceans to plants and animals on land. All life is still evolving.” I know it’s really above his level and he just picked it for the pretty galaxy pictures, but I’m still quite amused that he picked that book on the day we were finding the public school had recommended religious tripe.
What?? I’m astounded that anyone could be so casually rude and intrusive, let alone homophobic, let alone a number of them.
(Yeah, so I like tags, sue me. Tricksy blogses teaching me HTML by stealth. Hiss.)
Ah. I cleverly deduce that you were not a teenage boy in the 1980s. Because that shit was awesome.
Jeez, Birger, it’s an alien lifeform. It’s not magic :P
Short story, Who Goes There? by John W. Campbell jr. [/nerd] Also filmed in the 1950s by Howard Hawkes as The Thing From Outer Space. The John Carpenter version is infinitely superior.
Re arctic bug horrors (only this time with Val Kilmer instead of Kurt Russell):
Saw The Thaw http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1235448/ a few days ago. Not bad – a strong environmentalist theme, but a bit teen-horrorish in parts.
(Sorry, cannot find the appropriate tags for displaying URLs at the moment. They were visible earlier above the reply box, but now they’ve gone AWOL.)
—
Otherwise, not a very good day for me. I’m feeling very panicky and over-the-top emotional all the time, for absolutely no reason whatsoever. If it doesn’t pass in a few days, I’ll need to go see my doc about checking my meds. Do NOT want the depression to come back, so now I’m trying to ride this one out with mild tranqs.
I’m gonna go & start clearing the berry bushes soon – that should bring back my usual calm state of mind at least partially. The berries are perfectly ripe now, and we have raspberries (both big fat juicy garden ones and small, tart, tasty wild ones that are perfect in jams), gooseberries and black, white and red currants all over the place. Also, there seems to be a dragonfly invasion going on. It’s like the Battle of Britain out there – I could hear them last night colliding with the tin roof of the barn with loud plonking noises.
—
Bruce has also become an avid hunter now. He has quickly graduated from crickets and newts to voles and shrews.
—
Also, ‘shrooming in a few days! The chantarelles are starting to come out, yellow and black as well as funnel ones. Not to mention ceps and whatnot. We’ve placed an order for a bigger freezer (BoyToy’s uncle gets special deals on them through his work) =)
Forget about registration problems, the blog can’t even seem to cope with the numbers at the moment.
Oh noes, PZ is destroying free thought just like his anenemies said he would.
Snickles.
@drbunsen (apologies if this double-posts):
Yea, I found that out with a Wiki-search! I’m always interested in reading the books that prompted classic films. I’m looking for Nothing Lasts Forever but since it costs $80, it’s a bit pricey.
Talking of good news concerning sons, the son I mentioned above, now 16, has just received his “Standard Grade” exam results (equivalent of GCSE in the rest of the UK, not sure what the nearest equivalent would be elsewhere). From eight subjects, he got five grade 1s (Maths, Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Computing Science), and three grade 2s (English, History, Graphical Communication) – 1 and 2 are the “credit” grades, the ones you would normally need to pursue a subject further. Since his chosen “Higher Grade” subjects are Maths, Physics, Biology, Computing Science and Technology Studies he looks to be well set for those.
(Just had to get in a boast about that! I note in passing the very gender-stereotypical sci/tech bias. Could be due to social pressure – Katharine Lorraine, I’m sure you didn’t intend “beat into them” literally, but just for the record, AFAIK no adult has ever hit him, nor shamed him about cross-gender role play – but if it was social pressure, it started early, as almost his first word was “dak-dar” – i.e. “tractor”.)
Incidentally, what do people think about monetary rewards for an offspring’s exam success? He’s been saving hard to buy the parts for a build-your-own computer, and I’m tempted to make up the difference if Mrs. KG agrees.
@KG:
Nah, didn’t mean literal physical beating. More of a mental / emotional beating. Being told every time you so much as have a tear in your eye “you’re acting like a girl, stop crying and man up” kind of has a mental toll on you at a young age. The whole societal pressure of being told how to behave to avoid being labeled wrong was hard on me.
Yeah, I’m sure we never did that, and I’d be surprised if he got it much from other adults, though I can’t be sure. But I think kids do a lot of gender-policing among themselves.
Whee! Nice new digs. Is it taking awhile to load for anyone else, though?
It is always so disappointing when you’re out with a friend for a nice meal and you’ve had a fantastic entree… only to be followed by a subpar dessert. It’s like going on an amazing date, only to be dropped off at the front door with a handshake and “I’ll call you.” Why is it that some pastry chefs seem to think that “Bigger! MORE!” = good dessert?
Theoretically, chocolate+peppermint+caramel shouldn’t be a bad idea, but the execution was ridiculous: two slices of “chocolate cookie” with a texture not unlike that of a stale brownie, sandwiching dyed pink peppermint ice cream with a disappointing amount of ice crystals (the whole thing of which was the size of a small paperback), that was literally swimming in caramel sauce. Seriously – the shallow bowl was FILLED with the stuff. My foodie friend and I are determined to reinterpret it better: smooth non-dyed peppermint ice cream with a couple of small crispy chocolate wafers with a drizzle of caramel is the current plan. Sigh. It was just so disappointing because our entrees of manicotti stuffed with ricotta and roasted portabella mushrooms in a spicy rustic tomato sauce and duck-filled tortellini with fresh mozzarella & wilted spinach with pine nuts and a light sherry cream sauce was AMAZING.
What a subthread. I have four tabs open, one each for episodes CCXXXVIII, CCXXXIX and CCXL-as-it-should-be-spelled, and one for the Washington Post article on how Sweden survived the economy crisis.
The lack of comment numbers here has a very annoying side-effect: the URL of this page is so long that the comment number isn’t displayed on my (laptop) screen. Scrolling up and down just got a lot harder. I really don’t want to avoid this enormous page twice while I’m on Internet via cell phone network… I’ll try to remember the timestamps… :-/
So, I’ve caught up till 10:00 pm yesterday. Have to drill 4 holes into insanely hard concrete, see you later.
“I’ll beat you up bad, but good!”
— Donald Duck (by Carl Barks) to his nephews.
<rot13>
I’m not actually creative, you know. My imagination is quite limited most of the time.
(That may be why I like the scientific method so much. It isn’t limited by my imagination, so it can teach me things I wouldn’t have imagined!)
Thank you!
See, Lynna? I love this kind of thing, but just about never come up with it myself.
Seconded.
Hey now. :-)
Yes, I think it’s supposed to give us a monospace font.
========================
HTML tests:
delstrikecodecite
abbr title=”GNU’s not Unix”
acronym title=”GNU’s not Unix”
Seriously??
Deepak Chopra’s new video game
I still have nightmares about that scene…
Someone asked for the Coilette reference: Coilette was the psuedonym Bender from Futurama used to enter the Olympics women competition.
My mother said that to me once, and I just said–well, I didn’t even think, I just replied:
“Jesus fucking Christ, I’ll still love him if he’s gay, straight, bi, or pink and yellow-polka dotted! That’s what a parent does! What the fuck is wrong with you?”
I think it’s still the best answer to a stupid douchebag question like that.
Gus Snarp, would you consider Kingsleys “the waterbabies” inappropriate? On the other hand no one on the school board has probably read either book. I just ask my daughter about what she is studying and correct any misinformation.
@broboxley – I’m not familiar with it. I’m just quite certain that a public school district should not be recommending a book for five year olds that is simply the words of a Christian hymn with pretty pictures behind them and that has one entire (very wide) page spanned by the words: “The Lord God made them all”. I realize my kids will be exposed to religion a lot, our society is saturated with it. I have no doubt that he will learn critical thinking from me and will be able to make his own decisions when he gets older. But I’m also pretty certain that a government agency has no business, and is in fact expressly prohibited from promoting this kind of material. It’s not literature, it’s a hymn set to pictures for kids who are just learning to read. Are you saying it’s OK for a public school to have this on their reading list? Sure, the school board may not have read it, but somebody did, and I don’t think I have any access to the person who made the list, only to the agency that released it.
I love that movie. Where else can you see a battle between Good and Wilfred Brimley!?
FCKH8
“”Just after the New York legislature forced same-sex marriage on New Yorkers without a vote of the people, the radical gay-rights activist group F**H8 declared war on Minnesota and released a profanity laden video that attacks Christians and biblically based arguments for traditional marriage,” the Minnesota Family Council wrote in a fundraising pitch to supporters.”
Streisand Effect anyone?
@Gus Snarp:
“She found the book, “All Things Bright and Beautiful”, which she did not know was the name of a Christian hymn, and she started flipping through it. She realized what kind of book it was when she got to the page that said: “The Lord God made them all”. Yeah, not pleased. Reading and discussing books with religious themes as literature is one thing, a public school district recommending a book whose words are verbatim from a Christian hymn to five year olds? That seems like promoting a religion in clear violation of the 1st Amendment to me.”
—–
Awww, before I followed your link, I thought you were talking about “All Things Bright and Beautiful” by James Herriot the Scottish veterinarian, which is dear to me. I was all ready to come out swinging – “how dare you condemn this wonderful book just because of the title!” But I would’ve been mistaken.
Now I’m just angry that some stupid religion stole its hymn lyrics from James Herriot. ~;>
o.o
The new packaging for Orbit cinnamon gum has goats on fire on it
o.o
Haha! Link clickied at last! It was sure enough caught in my spam filter; thx to whoever suggested that I look for it there.
Maybe tonight I will feel really daring and see about adding an avatar.
–
Meanwhile, on Tree Lobsters!….
–
I work in a very formal office. The sort office that’s never heard of casual Fridays, where clothing dress code requirements are almost draconian. (For example, I’m feeling daring today by wearing a button down collared blouse in addition to my slacks because it doesn’t have sleeves. It’s a very Mormon company and I’m as good as advertising that I’m not wearing garments.) The overall atmosphere is simply highly formal.
Which is why I was totally stunned this morning to arrive and find a coworker with his dog outside. This is not the kind of place you bring an Irish setter in to work with you even if you have a nearby veterinary appointment mid-day. And that’s a shame because she was lovely and very friendly.
Congratulations to 16-yr-old son, KG. (Scotland, right?)
Pretty stellar results there. Personally I would indeed feel the impulse to express celebratory feelings in some appropriate way (like help w computer components …).
If you happen to feel like sparing a thought for those sweating blood south of the border as A-Level results day approaches …. (daughterspawn wants to read biochemistry – all digits x’d she makes the grade for her conditional offer)
Gus Snarp,
was it a required reading or a recommended reading? Lots of diversity (good) religious song(not good) small easy to read words(good) if just recommended I would save the fight for the required stuff. Thats just me.
On the other hand you are one parent out of 100 who got any books for the kid and one parent out of 1000 who even bothered to look at the list at all. Kudos to you for that.
This is just an off-hand excerpt from an article which is not about free will—Power and Choice: Their Dynamic Interplay in Quenching the Thirst for Personal Control (full text might show up as free for you)—but I think it partially addresses the question of “why bother increasing liberty without free will?”
«Similarly, having choice—the ability to select a preferred course of action (Averill, 1973)—also fundamentally affects individuals’ psychology, from increasing positive affect and satisfaction (Langer, 1975; Langer & Rodin, 1976) to improving task persistence and cognitive performance (Cordova & Lepper, 1996; Zuckerman, Porac, Latin, Smith, & Deci, 1978).»
Bwahahaha! Welcome.
Congratulations to KG’s son!
(Also, this is a historic moment… my first post on the sniny new TET. And my first post on Freethoughtblogs anywhere, except for the posts defending the monarchy on the thread about HRH the Prince of Wales.)
I get this about my daughter, if people know about my stance on LGBT rights. Or if I stand up for the boys playing dress up in her daycare, which I did one day. They also ask if I’m worried about her growing up as mixed. Some people can look at her and ask, others ask when I tell them. It says a lot about them, all in one fucked up question.
@ Gus Snarp again: seconding what broboxley said, and thinking out loud…
By “recommended reading list” a district usually means they consider these books an appropriate benchmark – “Five-year-olds should be able to tackle this difficulty of book.” Judging difficulty is their primary concern. The list might’ve come from older lists, from other educators’ recommendations, or wherever, so the books have been vetted for content only in a general, informal sense. This particular hymn book probably passed without a second thought – “It’s been on everyone’s reading list for years…” While a similar book with “two mommies” would probably be controversial, sad to say.
The intent might be for parents to vet the reading list themselves, and choose according to their own standards, which is exactly what you’re doing. That said, it seems reasonable to point out to the school that this IS a purely religious and Christian book, so to be inclusive, they should either add to the list a few books from other religious and specifically non-religious viewpoints; or they should remove the Christian one(s). If they start a huge firefight about it, well…
(now I want a bunch of multicultural kids’ hymnbooks, starting with that prayer to Ma’at.)
That is free will! No coherent account of what “contra-causal free will” could be, or how it could be of value, has ever been given; and when questions are asked about responsibility, as for example in a legal context, it is whether this ability was present, and if so to what degree, that is examined.
drbunsen
Don’t know, I haven’t read about that. I would assume so, since earlier measures of religiosity have been trumpeted as a fine example of American exceptionalism, and I assume this affects people’s beliefs, but I’m just guessing.
Wow, I finally made it back from the hunt to find the whole village has moved. This is a bit of a “Hello World” as I try and work out how to log on via WordPress…
Nah. I think I’ve flailed, thrashed, and finally stumbled onto a pretty good argument for why compatibilism is false:
Proponents of compatibilism do as much as incompatibilists do, pointing out that you don’t even want what you think you want [free will]: “If indeed the free will is uninfluenced by one’s circumstances, such as desires and motives, then it simply has no reason or capacity to act.”
They accurately make the case that you didn’t want free will anyway. They accurately make the case that you do want the only thing you have—the ability to pursue your desires—in a deterministic fashion. (Thus compatibilism holds no explanatory value which incompatibilism does not also hold.)
But then the word game: why don’t we just call this determinism “free will”? It’s a re-branding.
This is not what most people mean by free will, so that’s the important part of why compatibilism is false:
when told that determinism means they could not have acted differently than they did, most people either passionately reject determinism or declare that this impossibility of having acted differently means they don’t have free will.
Thus if compatibilism is true for anyone, it is only true for a handful of philosophers (and perhaps a handful of true Scotsmen); it is not true for the rest of us.
Lisa Miller of the Washington Post is having a live chat about Religion in the News if people wanna ask her questions – http://live.washingtonpost.com/lisa-miller-0804.html
… aaah it works! (But I get a screen where I have to type my name and email.)
Speaking of SIWOTI, I have just finished a week of that syndrome on ERV. I have not officially flounced, but am going to call it a day. People are still wrong there!
@ SGBM [general]
You seem to know a lot about such things: I have crossed swords with people like John C.Welch, Rystefn, Tristan, gr8hands, DavidByron (who now has Phil in his tractor beam), etc,etc,etc and someone who has to be anonymous. Some seem to have a history with this blog and have no shortage of energy in spewing. How does this sit? (I have checked some on the wiki.)
There are even one or two people arguing more reasonably (Dan S.just keeps fighting trolls and bluharmony). I am just curious.
crap; now I’m going to have to buy a pack, even if I don’t like chewing gum, or cinnamon-flavored things
theophontes:
Of John C.Welch, Rystefn, Tristan, gr8hands, DavidByron and Phil, if you’ve more or less kept up with TET since ERV’s mess began, then you know as much about them as I do. They are all new to me.
Of “forced to be anonymous”, I believe is “truth machine OM”, aka “nothing’s sacred”. And I don’t know where to begin. He’s a hard case, seems to have something broken in his theory of mind, such that if something is salient for him he seems to believe it’s perfectly obvious to anyone he considers at least an intellectual rival.
@Jadehawk:
Cinnamon gum is actually very good at cleaning your teeth and breath after a meal *nodnod*
I’m so proud that Wits is home grown. It has also hosted Julia Sweeny.
yeah, but it tastes like shit; hot shit
@Jadehawk:
Yeh, probably true. I just chew on it for a couple minutes then throw it out cause that’s enough to clean up after eating.
Tonight’s Futurama, Möbius Dick.
Leela becomes obsessed with hunting down a mysterious four-dimensional space whale.
Leela: Okay, which of you space dogs has the guts and know how to harpoon that whale?
Amy: I spent a semester in Africa harpooning giraffes, and giraffes are basically just land space whales.
Leela: Miss Wong, you have the ‘poon.
what is this cleanup after eating? I like the taste of my food, I like the taste after I am done eating. I dont want to kill the taste with spearmint or anything else.
Heard wonderfully skeptical things on local NPR station while I was out and about during lunchtime and I’m feeling downright chipper about it. A guest on Radio West who wrote a book discussing the secretive culture of polygyny in Utah (I missed the intro sections, so I didn’t catch the name) was saying reasonable and rational things, which is not always the case on Radio West. Moreover, he didn’t allow it to seem that being a skeptic or atheist means you’re an immoral baby eater. Amazing!
The specific moment that made me cheer came around when someone from Provo wanted to voice anger that the author characterized these crazy women-oppressive fucks as “secretive.” He was told that the word he was missing was sacred. (I wanted to shriek at the man.) This is a predictable Mormon reinterpretation of language (see also: bishop, Gentile, priest, etc.) where part of something being sacred means it’s also kept secret: they’re special godsecrets, you see. Strangely, when I look at normal English definitions of sacred, this uniquely Deseret interpretation is nowhere in evidence:
Thankfully the guest responded perfectly. He said that religious individuals and organizations like to use “sacredness” as way to shield themselves and their ideas from criticism. He went on to say that criticism, including irreverent criticism, is legitimate. People shouldn’t hold silly ideas if they don’t want those beliefs to be laughed at.
I was cheering and wanted to do a little dance. It’s not generally considered “balanced” on public radio to say that there is nothing special about religious ideas, and that they are not specially immune from criticism. Given how friendly much of our local/regional NPR coverage toward religion usually is, I was very, very happy.
I love gooseberries!
so do I; which is why I bought a gooseberry bush and planted it in a giant bucket. Now excuse me, I have to pick some gooseberries.