The Australian had a few things to say about the convention.
It sold out.
That’s probably enough. This convention could have been much, much bigger, with a little more support. Next time — and I did hear the organizers talk about the possibility of doing it again in two years, hint, hint — it can be an even bigger event. After all, you are all planning to go, right?
The venues on the first two days were smaller, the result of caution. The organisers chanced a bigger hall yesterday when Richard Dawkins was invited to speak, but could have sold more tickets on Saturday, when philosophers Grayling and Tomas Pataki and the hilarious American biology lecturer and science blogger P.Z. Myers gave talks.
The crowd was hardcore. Few gasped when comedians – lesbian former Mormon Sue-Ann Post, ex-Catholic columnist Catherine Deveny and the New York writer, radio host and stand-up comic Jamie Kilstein – blasphemed without restraint. (Dawkins succeeded in provoking gasps when he referred to the pope as a Nazi.)
Grayling was received like a rock star; the crowd shouted with laughter when Myers spoke. Pataki’s denser argument – an atheist himself, he cautioned against the prevailing wish to see religion fade away – was received more quietly, with bemusement. He spoke of people’s emotional need to be heard and loved by a non-existent personal deity, if no real person could fill the role.
Wait, wait…I’m hilarious? I was deadly serious the whole time! I’m going to have to work on my presentation style some more, I guess.
There were a lot of real comedians working the joint, and I thought it was great. Jamie Kilstein actually succeeded in converting me. The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster never really appealed to me, but the Church of the Smiling Vagina…those are my people. He gave us the Ten Commandments of his faith, and I think I could follow them.
We were hardcore. There may have been a few accommodationists around, but they were quiet. Probably cowed. Or trying to accommodate to the ferocity of their surroundings. The ones who spoke were found unconvincing by most of the audience. I was rather pleased when one young woman described me in a term I found much better than “New Atheist”. I am, apparently, a Hard Atheist. I told her that I do try to rise to the occasion and that we are all much more satisfying than those Soft Atheists.
A better write-up than Teh Age, but hopefully Catherine Deveny will put something to knock back the silliness of Barney Zwartz.
Sigh. Why do people use the word “vagina” to refer to the vulva? (Not your mistake, PZ, theirs.)
It’s not often I have good things to say about The Australian, but that was a fantastic summary of the weekend. To focus on the blasphemy and the humour but ignore the well reasoned philosophy and the moving personal stories is intellectual dishonesty at its worst. It is disappointing to see many journalists failing to provide this sort of coverage but if you went into the convention having already decided that you would not approve of it, there was sufficient material to confirm those beliefs and shut off the appreciation of some truly wonderful talks.
Re hard: see also chopper and ‘harden the fuck up’
/Homer
mmmmmmmm, Catherine Deveny !
/end Homer
.
I want some of the stuff he was on yesterday to get my brain going this morning !
I heard this often, how the Parliament of world religions had 7500 attendees.
As if it meant anything about how valid their arguments are, or would somehow reflect the importance or relevance of the respective groups for society.
All it means is that this was the first conference of its kind over here and the organisers were maybe a bit too conservative with their attendance estimates.
Rorschach,
Conservative in hindsight, yes. But they planned the largest atheist gathering in the world so far (so various presenters were saying).
It was good, there is hope, and I hope the next one is even bigger.
P.S. – it was nice to meet you in person.
Maybe she didn’t know about your wife and was — uh, trying to pick you up?
(Sorry, that church name just got me thinking in that direction…)
PZ:
Perfect! :D
Coleslaw:
I’ll add a sigh to yours.
Cool. If there’s another one in two years I might be able to attend and annoy the shit out of everybody. Assuming it’s in Melbourne. By then I might have some spare money and urge to hang out with my betters. ;)
Probably this 2 minute clip is IP-address limited to viewers in Australia, but the disappointing coverage by the ABC continues to form with this muddled piece that went out on the 7pm Sunday news here in Melbourne, with lots of religious imagery and the catch-phrase “preaching to the converted”; FFS can we have some originality people?!
The Anglican bishop of Melbourne (yet another Philip) almost gets more soundbites than Dawkins, Peter Singer, and Jason Ball combined, and there’s a couple of particularly fatuous vox pops from idiots in the congregation at St Paul’s Cathedral (e.g. “Atheism is no more than the latest new golden calf”). I suppose it’s because they’ve got to kow-tow to the religious audience that watches “Compass” later on.
I think it was a good number of attendees, and of course as a first time effort I don’t think it was too conservative a number. Overall I was very impressed with the organisation of the entire convention. I had a fucking blast, to be blunt. It definitely exceeded my expectations. I’ll be making the effort to attend again if it is repeated in the future.
Does anyone know whether there will be DVD sales or anything from the convention?
Maybe instead of “soft atheist” the term “flaccid atheist” should be used? To paraphrase an old joke – “A hard atehist is good to find” ;)
Whilst the press coverage was pretty poor and in most cases seriously biased, the conference itself was excellent. I will start saving now for the next one so I can get a full weekend pass the day tickets go on sale.
The networking aspects, getting to put faces to handles etc was invaluable.
My hope is that a number of attendees made contacts with others that will ultimately further enlightenment goals and lead to some real political change. With the like of Burke, Fielding and Bishop on the ABC’s Q&A session with Dawkins, it is glaringly obvious that our government must be swept aside by electing responsible, ethical atheists (and other secularists) into positions of power.
If any of you have a reasonably unblemished record and are capable individuals, consider running for (Federal) office. If you are already known and respected within your community, all the better. If the last thing you want to do is be a politician, you are probably the right person for the job. Join a party, form your own or run as an independent.
This applies as much to any nation as it does to Australia.
Incidentally there’s a minor error in The Australian article. The writer mentioned Nelson Rockefeller when he should have referred to John D. Rockefeller.
If the last thing you want to do is be a politician That’s me. I couldn’t stand the press raking through my not all together stellar youth and early adulthood. Nor my present familial relations. Someone else can have it.
In the small town where I grew up there was an old fellow who wrote anti-religious letters to the editor. He described himself as a “hard-rock atheist.” He knew the Bible better than the religious types who took his bait and responded to his letters.
He gave us the Ten Commandments of his faith, and I think I could follow them.
So, give already! The rest of us are wandering in sin out here!
I personally would relish the opportunity to vote for someone who has lived a little.
I personally would relish the opportunity to vote for someone who has lived a little.
Now if I’d lived a little instead of being a insipid prat who committed many stumblings I too would relish the opportunity to be voted for. :)
Anyway, it would be good if we could get politicians who weren’t pious gits churned out by the political parties. Unfortunately the only non-party pollies are celebs who don’t turn out so well either.
I’m dying to know who the honeymooning couple from North Carolina was.
It’s so great to hear of more of us in the bible belt!
Coleslaw wrote:
Well Church of the Smiling Vulva doesn’t have the same assonance. They could probably still claim Church of the Lovely Vulva… although looking at the illustration on their website, maybe “lovely” isn’t what they’re going for.
#11 yes there will be a DVD of the event, according to AFA forum members.
#19 I met that couple from North Carolina (sorry can’t remember their names, but I did meet many new people this weekend) on the Thursday night, real nice people, nearly floored me when he said he’d brought his new wife to #atheistcon for their honeymoon!
Like many, I really hope they have another atheist convention in 2012 (if the earth’s till here. lol) This time I’d like to hear more speakers provide useful advice on how to reduce religious influence etc.
Oh, it was a good article BTW.
“(Dawkins succeeded in provoking gasps when he referred to the pope as a Nazi.)”
…well as far as my understanding, the current Pope never really recanted and/or repented about his stint with The Hitler Youth, so it maybe actually true. :)
To be very precise here, he called him “Pope….Nazi”.
It was my impression that he was actually trying to think of the guy’s name, Ratzinger, and couldn’t remember it.
Pope Maledict DCLXVI @ 10
for the link so kindly provided, those outside Oz can use an Australian proxy to view this. for example, this one worked:
http://123.201.122.78 on port 1080. You’ll have to configure this in your browser. (Don’t forget to discard after use.)
Or better, get it here:
http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee50/NGC224isM31/?action=view¤t=obfuscated_name.flv
Renamed to keep it from being pulled down right away (if anyone is looking.)
Rorshach:
If that’s so, that’s pretty funny. :D
Wait, somone “cautioned” against the wish for religion to fade away?
I would gasp at that.
I’m not sure if it’s been posted elsewhere, but Andrew Bolt is offended by Dawkins and we other barbarians here:
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/barbarian_savages_christians/#commentsmore
Just got home and people are still talking about it – awesome!
I had a great time at the convention, too – and was so glad to meet all of you who were there; I’m sorry if there was anywhere I didn’t. But what’s weirding me out now is that while reading the posts of those I met I’m hearing them in your actual voices…
Wowbagger, you’re alive! ;D
Hi Wowbagger,
glad to hear you’ve gotten home to something approaching normality, and I hope the rehearsals won’t add to the fatigue! Feynmaniac had some words to say about you in this thread, whereas I’d be tempted to say you’re more like this guy, except that you’re younger, more handsome, and not quite so tall as well as being an atheist ;-)
Philip
My impression also – he definitely seemed to be fishing for Ratzi’s name. Dawkins was in question time, and so this was not part of the prepared talk. Even if he remembered Ratzinger, he had already said “Pope”, and Pope Ratzinger would be wrong too. He was Cardinal Ratzinger, and is now Pope Benedict, with Ratzi the Nazi being an associated descriptor (if not entirely fair – but worse would apply if we talk about Ratzinger’s role in protecting pedophiles).
To my ears, there was not so much a gasp, as an intake of breath that Dawkins had left himself open to journalistic knives.
Still, it was funny.
Good to hear from you Wowbagger. Kel and BoS still need to check in. Wish I could have made it, but a trip down under and back in 48 hours is not very practical.
There was another very funny moment when Dawkins described a being adjusting the physical constants of the universe. He described a tool that held six knobs and said it would be a small role to give a god if you relegated him to being a tool twiddler. Deep laughter from some (not all) of the audience, so this is probably idiomatic (Australian?). I suspect Dawkins may have wanted to avoid the more obvious knob-twiddler, because he looked up, clearly got the joke, stammered and blushed deeply. It took about 5 minutes for the redness to fade.
Hi Nerd *waves*
I’m here and alive, I juts didn’t get home until after midnight last night and straight back into work this a.m. so haven’t had time to hit Pharyngula. My wrap up of the convention:
1) Dawkins was fantastic
2) PZ was awesome and a most gracious “leader of the flock” to all the Pharyngulites present
3) The lads are way more gorgeous in real life than even their photos reveal.
4) I’m nominating my liver for March’s Molly for it’s demonstrated fortitude over the last 4 days.
Another sigh for the “vagina”-for-“vulva” mistake. Seriously, people, we have biologists in this crowd; for goodness sake mind your anatomy.
Besides, “vulva” is a way prettier word. Rolls off the tongue and lips quite pleasingly.
…
Hey, BoS; good to know you got home safe – and I echo your sentiments!
I neglected to mention how much fun it was having PZ around; the whole experience would’ve been great even if he’d done what Dawkins had and simply flown in and out again – but that he chose to spend as much time with us as he did made it even better.
For anyone wanting to win PZ over, it’s simple – just buy him beer…
I can’t help thinking of Frank Zappa’s Harder than your husband (to get along with).
#36: PZ started it! ::points::
I really wanted to be there, but my excuse is now 6 weeks old, and sitting on my lap as I type. I have now got 2 white, male, currently beardless offspring. If the first is anything to go by, an enquiring mind will hopefully develop, too. (I refuse to label them as skeptics or atheist, or anything else – they will have to figure that out for themselves)
I look forward to 2012, and hope it will be a bit bigger (to fit all of us who couldn’t make it this time)
Atta girl Bride!
Hey Wowbagger – wink, wink…
I would go if only I had the necessary funds.
Euphemism?! 肏 that PZ. I’ll say 屌 all I want.
What the hell? I didn’t click on this post.
It’s Monday again in Oz, and that means, it’s time for a new round of Q&A !!
Oh, and I forgot to mention, it will have Catherine Deveny !!!
ABC1, at 935pm, for the locals…
Rorschach
..got a fairly good idea what you’re doing after the show then.
Watch IPL Cricket, how did you figure that ?? You know me far too well after this weekend I think !!
I must say I had a blast at the convention… every moment of it.
And I now realise what an honour it was to attend the Saturday night dinner and be seated at the table with Bride of Shrek, Rorschach, Wowbagger, Kel, a couple of others, and PZ himself. I used to be a lurker, but I think I’ll be posting more now! :)
Ah, Theatrix, you have just given away your real name to me!
It was lovely to have you on the table, sorry I didn’t get to speak to you more but the whole evening was a blur of trying to get to talk to every table and chat.
Both I and my 17 year old son had a great time. Met a bunch of pharyngulites, had my photo taken with PZ, and listened to a lot of great talks from people who all had something interesting to say.
I very much hope there will be another one in two years! Perhaps we could get Tim Minchin next time. And Matt Dillahunty too.
You liked Jamie? I was sitting directly behind you PZ and I thought you weren’t getting into him at all! I don’t think anyone was getting into his routine as much as Grayling though! ha ha. The more Jaime swore the harder AC laughed!
On a side note, I’d like to thank you for being very personable and friendly, especially considering you had a hundred people swamping you whenever you had 2 consecutive free seconds. I was so impressed with how friendly all the speakers were, and especially how well we volunteers were treated. I came away with a lot of good memories, great weekend.
Well, I completely stuffed up my weekends and tickets and wound up missing the convention entirely. So I spent Saturday afternoon a mere few hundred metres along the SouthBank at a beer tasting, which was probably a bit closer to a religious experience (at least after the 20 different beers I tried…). Not very impressed with the media coverage. Hope they give it another go in 2 years – I’ll get tickets as soon as they’re announced instead of faffing about.
#49 – Ah, yes, maybe I should be careful of that!
But yes, it certainly was fantastic evening. Maybe we can do it all again in a couple of years.
Bride of Shrek – take a look here :)
#12
Well, they’re certainly impotent.
Has anyone mentioned how amazing Taslima Nasran was? Her speech was dignified and heart-breaking and so very effective – I have a great deal of respect for her.
As for the four insanely attractive speakers, my man-crushes have been fortified. AC, Richard, PZ and Peter. Mmmmmmm.
Pope Maledict DCLXVI #10
Actually, Compass is really good ATM. Trust me, baby.
I’m neither a friend nor a foe of the Pope’s, but really, enough already with the Pope-Nazi jokes? Only because it’s so old and it makes one seem curmudgeonly.
I’d love to go if it’s held again, but only if photography is allowed. No point doing anything unless a camera is involved. Publicly, that is!
From Bolty, Australia’s favourite trollumnist
“Not a very brave man when it comes to criticising those religions which preach less civility:
When asked when he would be willing to criticise Islam as he did Christianity, the response was pragmatic. “I personally believe we shouldn’t go out of our way to do things that will get our heads cut off.” To the Islamist he would make it clear that this reticence is “because I fear you. Don’t think for one moment it’s because I respect you.”
Shouldn’t Dawkins give Christianity more credit for its civilising influence, when he counts on that very thing for keeping him safe to abuse? ”
Given the way Christians used to act (and still do in parts of Africa as I understand) I think whatever “civilising influence” western culture has is due to rationalism and the enlightenment, not the faith responsible for genocidal wars from its founding through the seventeenth century (and maybe beyond but I can’t think of any examples)
I’m not scared of Islamists. I personally know more about christianity because christians have more power here (they even say The Lord’s Prayer before parliament every day). Sure, in person I’m not the hardest atheist, but I feel just as embarassed telling a fundamentalist Christian that I think he’s mentally ill as I do a fundamentalist Muslim.
I’m not sure if I should make more of an effort to learn about and attack Islam, on the one hand it seems a bit gauche to go after immigrants when they haven’t done me any harm, on the other hand going to uni is supposed to be a broadening experience and it would be great to see waves of ex-Muslim doctors and engineers returning home to spread enlightenment values.
Then again, Islamic Awareness/Support Israel/Free Palestine Week is coming up again, and if they try to proseletyse to me again I won’t be so polite. Maybe I should see if the Godless Club wants to do anything about it…
Yes, I agree. There’s plenty to legitimately criticise and/or mock the current Pope for – his dinosaur stance on contraception, abortion and gay rights, his granting of “indulgences”, his attempts to appease the lunatic fringe of Catholicism (the Society of St Pius X, and so on), and his refusal to properly investigate the history of child abuse in the Church, to name but a few.
But the whole Nazi thing is neither funny nor clever. Like all able-bodied young males in Germany at the time, he was conscripted into the Hitler Youth. That doesn’t make him a Nazi sympathiser, nor does it make it OK to make unsubstantiated allegations. He may be a reactionary misogynistic anti-gay morally-bankrupt loon, but, to the best of our knowledge, he is not a Nazi.
For the love of
godCatherine Deveny, please consider my #23, or don’t discuss it if you weren’t there.Rorschach: I wasn’t referring to that specific incident, nor was I criticising Professor Dawkins. I have no idea what happened at the convention, and I was not expressing any opinion on those events. Sorry that I didn’t make this clear.
But I have heard, and seen on the internet, quite a few jokes in the past about Benedict being a Nazi. So I was speaking in general terms.
Walton, Ratzinger swore an oath, too.
Compare¹:
with
¹ http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=3029
I saw PZ in Toronto (Oz is way too far to go on my budget), and he’s entirely too cuddly and squishy to ever be a “hard” atheist!
JM, that’s a highly offensive comparison on every level.
And yes, Ratzinger (most likely) would have sworn an oath to Hitler, but he did so under duress; all able-bodied young men were conscripted into the Hitler Youth, with no exemption for conscientious objection. Thus, his oath is certainly not binding on him in any moral sense.
Why ? The wording and meaning are very similar. Surprised you cannot see that.
I would also add that you seen to have no get out clause if given an unlawful order. Your oath just said orders, not lawful orders. You also did failed to indicate that the Monarch is no longer the moral source of authority to go to war anymore. No mention of Government or Parliament at all.
Actually, in legal terms, going to war is a “royal prerogative power”. British troops can be deployed overseas on the authority of the Crown alone. In practice, however, this authority is exercised by the government on the Crown’s behalf.
Because of this, there is no legal requirement to seek authority from Parliament before going to war. The Blair government chose voluntarily to call a vote in Parliament on the invasion of Iraq, but they did not have to do so.
This is obviously not a desirable situation, and I’m in favour of changing it. But at the moment, the legal position is that the Crown has sole authority to go to war and to command the forces, this right being exercised in practice by the Crown’s ministers.
And you do not see the problem with failing to acknowledge that fact ?
As you are well aware this is very likely to be changed.However I was the moral situation is clear, and it is equally clear that your oath failed to acknowledge it. As such it was pretty much a waste if time.
I wish I’d been able to have connected with more people here and then at the convention, though it was also great just to start conversations with anyone.
I met echidna (Hi. :) and PZ was great to meet in person and was just so approachable. (Thank you.)
I didn’t see the protesters but I wish I had met them, you know, ‘for sport’.
If there’s another in two years (or whenever) I hope we can all do it again.
So its OK to call Ratzinger a Nazi, but unwise to insult Muslims because they might cut your head off.
Al B. Quirky:
It was “ok” for Aussie classmates to taunt me about being a Nazi (after all, my father had been in the Hitler Youth, just like Ratzinger). So I don’t particularly feel that this is all about Ratzinger, the guy who protects pedophiles vs the Muslims.
Dawkins did not make a snide joke about a pious holy man – it was a fumble in referring to a man who goes by several names. For many reasons, Ratzinger deserves contempt, although perhaps growing up in that time and that place is not one of them.
Dawkins is old enough to have some idea of the complexity of WWII events. I don’t believe that he was trying to have a cheap shot at Ratzinger, but he has left himself open to that charge. i do suspect that Dawkins does not hold the Pope in particularly high regard – and nor should he.
As for Muslims, the challenge is to change the “respect for religious views” meme enough so that free speech is restored. This issue was explored in depth in Taslima’s talk – which was the only talk in the whole conference to get a full standing ovation.
*waves wildly to jamesbspiller*
Good morning!
I’m going have to chime in, like many, to say how awesome this weekend was and how disappointing the mainstream media coverage was.
So much of what was “said” at the conference was contextual. “Pope Nazi” was, indeed, “Pope … Nazi” (as was pointed out above). The derision handed out to the token Xian was not when she declared her beliefs and thanked god for the night, it was when she got halfway through her long-winded “what is DNA, where did it come from …” question. And, following the twitter feed, it seemed that whilst everyone was happy to laugh at the odd comedian or throw away “ha ha religion” line, the speakers who had little to say but “religious people are backwards fools” were certainly not universally cheered.
And, having never been to a Hillsong or other pentacostal event, I’m going to guess here but I seriously doubt that atheists, muslims, jews, etc. are treated with utmost reverence and respect when they all get together and chat about how totally awesome jesus is. It was a meeting of atheists, for atheists. There was a lot of intellectual stuff going on but, for me at least, there was a lot of relief about being able to honestly, openly and crudely discuss religion without worrying who I was offending. So yes, I laughed at the comedians.
Wow. It really does say “all orders”. I didn’t even notice.
That is seriously absurd.
This is soooo embarassing – more crap form The Australian in regards to the Conference – the BS that spills forth from this woman is breathtaking:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/dawkins-preaches-to-the-deluded-against-the-divine/story-e6frg6zo-1225841086925
Makes me cringe to be an Australian, when crap like this is published.
№ 10, Pope Maledict DCLXVI, that has to be the funniest moniker I’ve seen yet.
Ted
spunmunkey wrote:
Me too. The other media outlets have been reasonable about their coverage; this woo-soaked idiot obviously isn’t too good a researcher, since she call Nazism ‘a product of atheism’ – Gott mit uns anyone?
I’m also unsurprised that there’s no comment section. People like that don’t appreciate having their stupidity pointed out to them. Closed-minded indeed. Still, I intend to flame the crap out of her on twitter later today.
I’m also going to give a big “me too” to the awesomeness of the weekend.
Pataki was also received with bemusement for his definition of atheism as “someone who denied the existence of god”, iirc, which was delivered early on in his talk and so kinda lost a lot of people.
I read this earlier today and though to myself, someone must have been upset about the very reasonable opinion in the Australian yesterday, that PZ linked to in the title, that they felt it needed a reply from a so obviously deluded person.
4) I’m nominating my liver for March’s Molly for it’s demonstrated fortitude over the last 4 days.
can I have it then?
I could sure use a liver with a bit more fortitude these days.
I’ll trade you a…
*looks around*
copy of Origin with Ray Comfort’s introduction?
I might even toss in a bottle of Marmite.
So its OK to call Ratzinger a Nazi, but unwise to insult Muslims because they might cut your head off.
ah, how times change eh?
I bet the Pope has some serious Fatwah envy about now, and longs for the days when he could have ordered someone burned at the stake for insult to his person.
Ted @ №75,
you’re most welcome! It’s not the most original idea, admittedly: I’m sure Benvenuto Cellini’s many enemies called him Malvenuto from time to time.
Pikemann Urge @ №57,
I was more disparaging the usual viewing constituency “Compass” is aimed at, rather than criticising the content, which in the past has extended to some of Dawkins’ documentaries, and is sometimes worth watching even when treating religious subjects. (And some of the behind-the-scenes Compass team are friends of friends.)
4) I’m nominating my liver for March’s Molly for it’s demonstrated fortitude over the last 4 days.
you, uh, don’t happen to have a liver donor card?
Fishy
You could have my liver but alas I believe it’s got so scared of any further abuse it’s shrunk as far back into my body as possible, shivering terrifiedly and will not come out no matter how I coax it.
I believe I now have one of the world’s only livers with an actual alcohol phobia. The counselling required is going to prove problematic.
You could have my liver but alas I believe it’s got so scared of any further abuse it’s shrunk as far back into my body as possible, shivering terrifiedly and will not come out no matter how I coax it.
well, did you show it the galaxy vid?
Thank you for speaking at the convention, if only there were more hard atheists like you! You may also recall when we chatted that I mentioned an electric chair pendant that I purchased for my partner.
The idea was inspired by an episode of Arrested Development (a dry American comedy series worth seeing if you get the chance) which includes the following dialogue:
Maeby: Do you guys know where I could get one of those gold necklaces with the ‘T’ on it?
Michael: That’s a cross.
Maeby: Across from where?
Mike and I have giggled about this and in his view it would be just as appropriate to wear a little electric chair around your neck, we all have preferences when it comes to execution. Which made me wonder… and then search… and then purchase.
http://www.project-reason.org/gallery2/image/84/
Lenny Bruce has said: “If Jesus had been killed 20 years ago, Catholic school children would be wearing little electric chairs round their necks instead of crosses.”
If our plan to mould and char a small figure for the chair comes to fruition, I’ll send through some photos.