OK, gang, my travels are greatly disrupting my ability to keep up with the thread everlasting, and you’re taking advantage of my frequent absences to run up the comment count. Well, here’s something to reassure the American audience that we aren’t alone in dealing with idiots in power — I’ve been hearing a lot about Richard Dawkins’ appearance in an Australian show called Q&A. Dawkins is fabulous, despite being “outspoken” and “strident”, but check out the rest of the panelists.
The rest of the panel wobbles between fuzzy sophists and apologists and creationist nutbags, and Dawkins seems to be the sole voice of reason. The audience, too, asks a lot of stupid questions. Although, I have to note that even Steven Fielding, who is clearly the biggest idiot there, protests that religion ought to be kept out of government.
Carry on.
OMG, Caine, that ravioli recipe sounds phenomenal! That’s going on next week’s rotation.
Ol ‘Greg – yeah, I thought I remembered you were an artist too. Cool, the more the merrier! My email’s posted above.
David,
Dunno about formal terminology, here in Oz we call the “rectangular plate thing” a ‘block’ of chocolate, and the units thereof ‘squares’ of chocolate.
Josh, I wouldn’t be averse to buying one; I did think you were simply going to do an online ‘cookbook’ though. There was a lot of recipe sharing at Moblog, so one of the mobloggers set up Nosh Ninjas (of course, I can’t find the link now), but I figured a website would function fine.
hah, that will stretch my artistic abilities somewhat, but it’s worth a try.
And I’m never gonna be able to get that assclam image out of my head ever again :-/
Well, that’s the extent of my artistic abilities in MS Paint, anyway. See why I need help?
Just don’t get NonStampCollector to do the illustrations! :)
Josh, if all the religious blather was true, that ravioli would be classed as a serious sin. :D Chestnuts in the shell are key, a friend wanted to make it and used canned chestnuts. Not so good.
Wikipedia equates “chocolate bar”, “candy bar”, and the, well, bar-shaped confections like Twix bars. I guess I’ll say “block” then.
Bonne soirée – good (rest of the) duration of the evening…
oh yeah, and I think a Pharyngula cookbook charity thingy might be a nice idea :-)
Caine, #502 –
Yeah, I really have no idea what most people would want to do with the idea. Website is fine, of course – I get lots of my recipes online, obviously. It would be nice to have it at least formatted in such a way that people could print it out to stick in a three-ring binder. After all, you’ve got to have it actually in the kitchen, not just on the screen in another room.
Girl, I don’t even think I’ve seen a chestnut, outside of illustrations, canned or fresh. Where does one get them?
block of chocolate
bar of chocolate
but obviously, the Australians do it differently. wait a couple hours, and I’m sure the Britons will inform you that we all got it wrong :-p
They’re all over where I am around Christmas – if you remind me next year I’ll send you a boxful. :)
(also, I need that cookbook!)
Well, I get them online. Plug ‘Chestnuts’ into google, and you’ll find a variety of places to buy. I’ve ordered from a couple of different places, usually Chestnut farms.
Josh, O SG
Duh. They grow on trees. Prolifically.
(oh, you meant where you buy them? ;) )
Huh? About the chocolate I’ve never really heard of a brick of it called anything but a brick or bar. As for amounts though they’re usually in ounces with the brick divided in ounce sections. So for instance I don’t think we’d say “a 1lb bar of chocolate” but rather “16 oz chocolate.” Don’t know. US isn’t very good on formal names for amounts of things anyway.
Smart
asstouchhole. At least Caine was helpful:)Oh, that reminds me – Josh, you’ll probably have to wait on the Ravioli, it’s not Chestnut season. That’s in the fall.
That’s OK. I’ll kill two birds with one stone. Them ‘lil sumbitch squirrels that get all up on my roof and into the eaves are gonna get a surprise. First, I take their chestnuts. Then, their lives.
And I’ve always seen it listed as “squares of baking chocolate”, where one square is one ounce off of a baking chocolate bar. Bars are conveniently scored in one-ounce squares for easy measuring.
Josh, here’s a place you can buy fresh Chestnuts in the shell, when they are in season: http://www.earthy.com/Fresh_Chestnuts_in_the_Shell__1_lb_P1447.cfm
block of chocolate.
Oh, and tonight’s dinner (actually, dinner for at least three nights, since it’s just me). Super easy.
Oriechiette (little ears) work best, but you can substitute medium shells.
1 lb. Oriechiette, cooked al dente.
1 pound italian sausage (I prefer hot, but you can use sweet)
1 large bunch broccoli rabe (sometimes called rape or rapini)
4 cloves garlic, chopped fine
2 tbsp. extra virgin olive oil
2 cups hot chicken broth (or make it from dried bullion)
Parmesan cheese to taste
Wash the broccoli rabe and chop off most of the stems. Chop the rest coarsely, leaves and all. Brown the sausage in a dutch oven, with the olive oil, adding the garlic when it’s almost done. Drain some of the grease (but not all of it). Add the broccoli rabe and the chicken stock. Cover and simmer about 5 minutes, stirring occasionally. The broccoli rabe should be tender crisp and still bright green.
Put pasta in bowls, ladling sausage/broccoli rabe mixture and broth over the top. Top with parmesan.
Josh, I’ll drop you a line. I’m actually pretty versatile so if and when you want to talk about it I can send some sketches and whatnot based off whatever you’re thinking. There are probably more talented illustrators among our ranks, but I’ve been looking for a reason to draw more recently. I’m not the best at cartooning though.
Dunno if you want a cohesive look/feel or if you want pics of the food too.
More things making the local news:
Musicians fight Guantanamo Bay’s ‘Torture Lite’.
(Original comment, which may appear later, contained d*mn as the first word, which I stupidly forgot was banned.)
Darn you Pharyngulites and your not-allergic-to chestnut ways!
Caine: do you think it would be good without the chestnuts? I enjoy good food, but the trip to the hospital is not so much fun (tree nut allergy). Especially since I’m unlucky…err, fortunate… enough to have a high-deductible health policy.
Do drop a line, Ol’ Greg. What I want is for everyone to have fun and make some good food, not to worry over perfection:)
I used to be a photographer, actually, a potential career that came to an abrupt and early end with the digital takeover. I had such a visceral romance with film – the different emulsions and their color palettes, the craft of making prints in the darkroom – and such a lack of interest in bringing computers into my art/craft, that I just dropped it. Without meaning to sound overly melodramatic, it really was a love affair that ended crushingly. I never would have been happy with digital photography, so I guess it’s best I learned early.
I still haul out my 4×5 view camera from time to time, but rarely.
holy shite
I believe that is now burned into the back of my retina
I’ve also seen largish, flat units of chocolate referred to as “slabs”.
(‘Units of chocolate’ conjures up a mental image of a bottle of Hershey’s syrup on an IV rack, with tubes running into someone’s arm.)
The American chestnut is sadly almost extinct. I had one growing in my yard when I lived near Cleveland (OH!), but it succumbed to the blight.
*tears*
They are very pretty trees.
I had a win today. Walking through JB HiFi I spotted the AAI 2007 Convention DVD set for $28. I’m coming in a bit late but I don’t think I’ve seen any of it before.
cicely, (‘Units of chocolate’ conjures up a mental image of a bottle of Hershey’s syrup on an IV rack, with tubes running into someone’s arm.)
Reminds me of a scene in Bill, the Galactic Hero:
bar of chocolate
evidently, it doesn’t matter.
Tough question, Jessa. It would depend on what you stuffed the ravioli with. I mean the ricotta, salt, nutmeg and rosemary are all good, but I think it would be on the bland side without the chestnuts. Hmm. I don’t know if it would work, taste-wise, but sweet potato might be a workable substitute.
David,
The technical term is a “chunk of chocolate.” An alternative, a “big piece of chocolate,” is disdained by the chocolascenti as being too vague.
Jadehawk, evidently! :)
—
Jessa, Caine: what about water chestnuts?
(I know, I know. I’m in a funny mood.)
John, water chestnuts would be seriously bland. Those are nuts we can do without, methinks. ;D
I think they’d be awful in ravioli but I disagree with you on two counts. 1.) They’re not nuts and 2.) Water Chestnuts are delicious!
Lotus roots too.
I can think of a number of alternative fillings:
1. If you’re not allergic to peanuts (they’re a legume, not a tree nut, If I remember correctly) try those.
2. Crumbled, extra-firm tofu that’s been spiced. Even better if you’ve pressed or “dry-fried” it to get the water out.
3. A firm green vegetable, blanched but still crisp. With spice. Chopped broccoli or broccoli rabe come to mind.
4. Flaked salmon or shellfish would also work nicely, though not if you’re a vegetarian.
I’m betting sweet potato would be both too sweet to stand up to mascarpone sauce, and too mealy. It would all turn into a textureless goo.
Pumpkin or other squash are good in ravioli. Mushrooms too. Lots of different mushrooms to choose from. Spinach… ground meats.
<nostalgia>
I well remember, as a child in Madrid (Spain), the delight of being bought a rolled-up-cone of newspaper filled with freshly-roasted chestnuts from a street vendor.
I’ve bought and roasted some here in Oz, but it just ain’t the same.
—
I also remember being bought similar cones of potato crisps — the vendor had some sort of apparatus he’d brush with olive oil and where he’d place thinly-sliced potatoes to make the most delicious chips.
</nostalgia>
Oh yes, Ol’Greg’s right. . mushrooms. A most excellent ravioli filling. Be sure they’re good quality, like portobellos, shitakes, etc. Chop them, and briefly saute in a little oil with salt and spices. Don’t just stuff them raw into the ravioli – yuck.
Yes, to ground meats and spinach, obviously, but I had a feeling this was a veggie request.
Sweet, I was mentioned (more accurately a comment I made was) on the latest episode of Rationally Speaking.
Josh @ #538
Yes, they’re a whole different category, which thankfully causes no allergic reaction in me. I might try one of your suggestions, because Caine’s recipe sounds really good to me.
Though now it’s a tossup, because your oriechiette sounds divine!
btw, is anyone else bothered by the fightglobalwarming.com ad with the sketch of earth with a tapemeasure around its
waistequator?I definitely liked the fever metaphors better. This just seems like the equation of losing weight and health jumping the shark. I mean, I wasn’t aware we were trying to shrink the earth, and that its worsening
waist-to-hipequator-to-tropic ratio is the problem.[/rant]No need to choose, Try ’em All™! Pharyngula has some great cooks. I’m definitely gonna make Caine’s ravioli, though I probly won’t wait until chestnut season.
Jadehawk,
Ads? What ads?
</smug grin>
Sage advice. I just have to convince Mr. Jessa to make them for me. Shouldn’t be too hard, since he loves to cook (and is excellent at it).
1. A pox on you, David Marjanović. I have been looking up pointless merde on TV Tropes for almost 7 straight hours, beginning with the link you provided concerning FDR. That website is pure mind-crack.
Actually, scratch that. Thanks: it’s awesome.
2. How’s Lynna doing? Has she gone on one of her trips into the backcountry?
3. Sili: sourdough always leaves me broken-hearted. I can get the dense, almost creamy texture, but I can never, ever replicate that intensely sour flavor like you might find in the bakery. I have a neglected crock in my fridge right now; I haven’t fed it, let alone used it, for nearly a month. Rapid-rise yeast is quicker…easier…more seductive.
4. I will try to contribute a ragu recipe, a recipe for water bagels, and a universal onion-based curry paste later.
Sili ‘waaaaay up @433
Oh yes, me, please! I’ve been making sourdough since my dad first brought home a culture in the late 60s. (Quiet, you youngsters! I was only seven in 1969, OK?) I have several cookbooks devoted exclusively to sourdough and starters. Some people – not me; I’m just a hobbyist – take it very, very seriously indeed!
You can make it the old, 19th-Century, flour and water way; you can get arty with a European-style week-long ferment; you can use honey and/or milk to get a starter. You can use the water from boiling potatoes, rye flour, yoghurt… the yeast will feed on practically anything starchy. Mix some starter up, keep it covered and cool so it doesn’t exhaust itself and refresh with flour and water every couple of weeks. Not hard, not fussy. (Just don’t let it turn a weird, inedible shade of pink. That doesn’t bode well! And “forgetting” it inside the fridge won’t kill it, but won’t really give the best results either.)
Once it’s going, you’re not limited to bread and pancakes. One of my (admittedly hippyish 1970s) cookbooks has recipes for quick breads, rolls, biscuits/scones, crepes, cookies/biscuits, gingerbread and savoury main dishes, all based around sourdough. I don’t use it every week, but it makes a pleasant change in flavour now and then.
Josh, OSG:
I’m no artist, but if you need any help with the editing/publishing side of things, it’s What I Do For A Living®; don’t hesitate to let me know.
If he objects, we could always call it the Blastula Cookbook!
A properly designed PDF is easy to distribute and actually a more user-friendly format for something like this than paper. That said, I’d happily pay for a hardcopy (or maybe an armload of them, to give as gifts) if the proceeds were going to a worthy secular pro-science cause. IIRC Cuttlefish has published through LuLu; p’raps s/he could chime in on the web-based print-on-demand options?
One thing to consider: Make sure you know whether the recipes are original. On at least one occasion, I’ve posted a recipe (that Asian Chicken Soup) that was straight out of a cookbook… though I not only credited it, I linked to the publisher’s website. The Margarita Pie recipe I mentioned earlier in this Thread (and which I still plan to post once I get around to digging it out) is from a book as well.
OTOH, if you plan to include cocktails, I’m quite sure I invented this one all by my ownself, and I hereby grant permission to publish it.
Josh OSG
If you get this could you please, please, please repost the recipe for your enchilada bake. My kids love “Josh’s Gay Enchiladas” and think you’re some sort of god ( ah the irony) for giving us the recipe in the first place. Of course I’m an idiot and lost it and my kids now hate me.
If he objects, we could always call it the Blastula Cookbook!
“pharyngula” being a common use name for a stage in development, is likely (??) not copywritable.
I’d take the risk.
Dear BoSOM,
Google is your friend.
All Hail the Undying Thread!
I don’t recall where it was now, but there was some discussion of Joshua Tree, and I just now got my pro account back on flickr, so might as well post it here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ichthyic/sets/280089/
oh joy, a Pharyngula cook-book
My only recipe is easily adaptable to a wide variety of delicious meals. Sometimes (pizzas) the toaster-oven works better than the microzapper. Other times (pastas) I go with the skillet-on-hotplate method and can actually pretend to be ‘cooking’.
Chestnuts are starchy, almost like a baked potato in texture when roasted, so replacing them with something mealy might not be that far off. But yes, sweet potatoes would be mushier, and the sweet taste is different.
The internets tell that Japanese sweet potatoes are firmer than the “usual” kind and have more of a roasted chestnut taste… hmmm
What about slighty ripe plantains? (just trying to think of a replacement that would be starchy and a little sweet like chestnuts. But plantains may also be too soft and bland for this)
Owlmirror
you know I’m so daft I didn’t even think of that. I’m going to claim Walton’s excuse for being less than intelligent- I’m as sick as a dog with a cold and can hardly think straight.
oh joy, a Pharyngula cook-book
indeed.
hmm. do these loose threads work ok for a repository, or would folks like an actual working website to post recipes on for inclusion in the book?
I might be able to rig something up if nobody is already doing that. wouldn’t take but 10 mins.
Ich @#554: beautiful pix. Nice tortoise, nice horned lizard, nice Gambelia, and oh yeah some interesting plants. Looks like it was a great day for herps. Oh, and plants.
Here‘s the story of an individual Joshua Tree.
Here’s the story of an individual Joshua Tree.
cool.
ah, Chris Clarke… who else?
Just watched the Glenn Beck show this morning. *
It was him with (Judge) Andrew Napolitano and two other religious nutcases that pass for constitutional historical and economic experts dicussing the healthcare “debate” and the constitution.
I summarise :
1. the laws of nature are such that our rights come from God
(Yes, they managed to say this!)
2. if not, our rights must come from government
3. “they” want to destroy God so that “they” can decide everything, control our lives
4. it is a FACT that what “they” are doing now with healthcare is 180° opposed to the constitution and the laws of nature and God’s given rights to us, the people.
This is the phenomenal nonsense that these nutcases are endoctrinating their teabagging audiences with.
What is wrong with these people ? What do they want to achieve ? This amounts to stretching the Overton window well within the danger zone, do they want a civil war ?
For chrissake how do they derive from the laws of nature that our rights come from God ?
* I know, I shouldn’t, I almost dropped my coffee on my keyboard. I watch this irregularly to get an idea of how far they can go in the level of insanity reached by the political debate in America. I think this morning they achieved new depths.
my recipe for salmon
-Salmon
-Sea salt
-Dill, if feeling culinaristic
Chop salmon in pieces that fit in oven or pan. Salt. Cook. Eat. With potatoes is good
My favorite salmon recipe
yes, I could do this all day long
please don’t make me
re chestnut substitutes:
Satsuma-imo (Japanese sweet potato) is probably not firm enough to replace chestnuts (although through the Autumn & Winter it is sold baked with a little butter from roadside stalls, much like chestnuts are in London (and no doubt elsewhere – I just remember them from London)- the cry of ‘yaki-imo’ (Roast [sweet] Potato) from outside my window always gets my mouth watering). My other thought was kabocha (Japanese pumpkin) although again I doubt it would hold up to ravioli stuffing.
I would have thought a really strong mushroom (Shitake for example) would be the closest substitute (I think someone else suggested this – just endorsing the most likely solution).
Anybody recall (even which novel?) Tom Robbins’s riff on the water chestnut? Something about the only vegetable that stays crisp when cooked?
spose I could consult teh google…
yep! Cowgirls.
PZ:
I think this is the first content-hint he’s dropped (any I’ve missed?).
Strongly suggests an atheisim book, not a biology book.
More’s the pity, IMO.
I like your recipes but I need to substitute “Trader Joe’s” with something else… bit of a long drive otherwise
—
That sounds really good. I think I’ve seen Japanese sweet potatoes in the store sometimes. (not the same as buying them freshly baked of course)
He has said:
_ _ _ _
Disappointed to see I missed out on the conversation about the name for units of chocolate.
Aha–thanks, I’d missed that entirely.
The Unit of chocolate ?
I call it insufficient, as in no matter how much I eat I want more.
I was very confused the first time someone asked me to pickup up a chocolate block from the store for them.
took about 2 minutes of conversation to figure out that meant “bar” in americanese.
Pharyngulette to the rescue!
Thank you. I’m glad to hear they’re not too finicky. For a start I’m only planning on making black rye bread. If I ever get a job abroad (though any job would be nice), it would be nice to be able to get the flavour of home without having to pay for it.
And it’s getting harder and harder to find a nice plain traditional rye bread. People keep stuffing them with grain, seeds, pumpkin, oats and other abominations. The big supermarket had a type I liked, but they discontinued it.
Thanks to nyb and MrFire, too.
That’s what I get for reading backwards.
Lump of chocolate, its Lump of chocolate, always was and always will be.
Anyone who says otherwise is clearly a ‘Berk’
Eating too much always makes me act and feel like a Lump anyway.
I like when chocolate comes in the form of a peanut butter cup. I am a man with a taste for the pedestrian.
AE:
You mean like Reese’s ? I remember those from when I lived in the states, so yummy.
Hard to get in France though :-(
It is a proven fact
Not sure if this has popped up on the thread and I’ve missed it, but this just made me laugh so hard that my head still hurts:
Hell Is An Atheist Convention
Note: satire.
85% dark choc “bar” for the win.
That brand is easy to find but there are better
You strange people who eat Cadbury eggs frighten me.
My wife loves them and she frightens me.
The other candy bar I liked: Butterfinger
That’s one thing I find strange, that these chocolate and peanut butter bars and cups aren’t marketted here in France. I can find American style peanut butter at the local supermarket, smooth or crunchy, but none of these disturbingly addicitive and yummy American candy bars.
Rev – Reese’s eggs are the flat ones that look like a car ran over a peanut butter cup.
Cadbury eggs are good, but their caramel eggs are even better.
I see your 85% chocolate bar and raise you a chocolate bar WITH BACON COOKED RIGHT IN.
Ooooh when I was a child I used to love Cadbury eggs but now just even the thought of eating one makes me retch a little. Too sweet.
Silent Moose – that was really good. I especially liked “Nowhere does it say, “Blessed are the smarmy little speccy know-it-alls banging on and on about DNA”.”
.evah ot tnelat taerg a s’ti kniht eno rof I .iliS ,hcum os nwod flesruoy tup t’noD
Oh I know the difference, I was just making a Pre-Crucified Bunny-emptive strike on the most disgustingly sugary abomination ever conceived by man.
And I’m a huge fan of bacon / choc combos. Salt, fat and chocolate go well together.
.obǝ ʎɯ ɹoɟ poob .ʇuǝɯǝbɐɹnoɔuǝ ǝɥʇ ǝʇɐıɔǝɹddɐ ʎ11ɐǝɹ ı .ǝɹıɟɹɯ ‘sʞuɐɥʇ
In case you’ve missed it, Vox Day has come up with a brilliant critique of New Atheism and Richard Dawkins :
When reality is even more ironic than satire.
crickey, link fail:
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=127933
All through college I read things like this and they never stopped pissing me off. Yes, I know the rest of the statement goes downhill, but really. Of course it’s always “the average” but never do they have a number or a study to support where they got that average.
Guess it’s really not an average is it toolbag?
I despise Vox Day.
That’s funny what he says about Dennett, it may have been written ten years ago but I’ve been reading Consciousness Explained this week and am glad I finally sat down some to do so. More importantly and interestingly though my mother read it, and then moved on to Wetware. She’s now talking about looking for Brights meetings in the area. My freaking mother! The one that dragged me to all those crystal-head hippies chanting world peace in the name of Jesus churches. I’m amazed.
Around here if anything it’s becoming acceptable for people to talk about things other than religious derived thought.
Things have changed. I don’t think “new atheism” is on it’s way out, it’s just not “new,” but then again it never was.
Anyone who claims it is new has not read Bertrand Russell on religion, or if they have they failed to comprehend what he was saying. I suggest beating these people about the head with a copy of “Why I Am Not Christian”. It will do little to educate the person being hit, but it will make the person doing the hitting feel much better.
And if anyone wants to take that comment out of context and claim I am advocating violence, I will kick them in the balls.
He despises me and actively supports things that would destroy my life.
I view him as a danger, as a result. It should be no surprise.
SteveM:
I’m probably being dense, but I’m still not seeing how this would be a problem.
The basic move I’m thinking of is to simply label the Earth’s intertial frame of reference as being the One True Frame of Reference—with no observable consequences—and use Einstein’s theory as a black box that predicts where things will appear to be relative to that.
In the new theory there would be no constraint that the speed of light is the absolute limit. The equivalent constraint would be on appearances-of-speed-of-light, relative to other frames of reference, conveniently compartmentalized into the black box.
We’d say that the black box was just a predictive mathematical model, like using Galileo’s model to predict observations from Earth, but that the Earth is really stationary, distant stars were really whizzing around it faster than the speed of light, etc.
For any useful purpose, all the Earth-centered terms would fall out when doing the math, only to be stuck back in at the end, to say what’s really going on from a dogmatically Earth-centric point of view.
And of course, it would be a phenomenally dumb thing to do, missing the real point of relativity, just as it was missing the scientific point of geocentricism to use it as a merely convenient model, in Galileo’s day.
And of course, Galileo’s corpse would spin at superluminal speeds. Galileo was himself a relativist, who didn’t believe in an absolute frame of reference, though he didn’t have an actual theory of it like Einstein’s. (As was Leibniz in Newton’s day; he too had the basic hypothesis but not a worked-out theory, and was convinced Newton was missing the boat in an important way, despite the stunning success of Newtonian physics in making predictions.)
For my actual point, I don’t think it makes a real difference whether we can salvage geocentricism in the face of relativity—but if not, it annoyingly complicates my rhetoric, and I don’t want to get it embarrassingly wrong. :-(
Since it’s almost strawberry season I pulled this one out of the file. It’s courtesy of Alton Brown. When the strawberries are gone reduce the remaining liquid and use as a sauce on sauteed boneless chicken breasts or the like.
Macerated strawberries in red wine
2 pints medium size strawberries, hulled and sliced
1 (750 milliliter) bottle red wine
1/4 cup orange blossom honey
1 teaspoon finely chopped lemon zest
1 teaspoon ground black pepper
1/2 cup sugar
In a bowl combine all ingredients. Let stand in refrigerator for 2 hours.
negentropyeater:
Yes, some of them do. Of those, some are expecting that a civil war will inevitably break out, at which time they will take advantage of it (aka, the “let someone else do the dangerous and dirty work (and run the risk of being caught and convicted of treason)” model), and others are actually contemplating starting it themselves. Some of the militia types, for instance.
Vox Day seems to despise every living person.
Every living person seems to despise Vox Day, so I guess things are even.
Bertrand Russell ?
I’ll repost here what I wrote in another thread about Jean Meisler, who doesn’t get sufficient recognition nowadays.
Jean Meisler, the first man known to have written a clearly atheistic manuscript, his
Testament: Clear and Evident Demonstrations of the Vanity and Falsity of All the Religions of the World, written a few years before his death in 1729.
Militant atheism and anti-clericalism started about 3 centuries ago.
A few choice quotes from Jean Meslier:
“I never believed any of that religious nonsense. There’s no God, there’s no afterlife and the church helps tyrants like Louis XIV to keep you poor and exploited. You’re on your own, but stand up to the bastards and you might just create a fairer world.”
“I did not wish to burn until after my death…They can fricassee [my testament] and eat it with whatever sauce they like”
“The books of the Bible are the flawed, even fraudulent, works of those who wrote and copied them, of the same standing as stories of fairies and our old novels”
“Jesus was an arch-fanatic … equally mad, out of his mind, unhappy rogue, a man of the abyss, vile and despicable.”
“The host as the body of Christ is an idol of paste and flour”.
Things that the author of the above post clearly has erroneous definitions for:
Average
Logically
Fallacious
Copious
Irrational
Fundamental
Falsity
Atheist
New Atheist
Intrinsic
Nature
Truth
Genuine
Opinion
Tolerated
Intellectual
Dishonesty
Secular
Ideology
Fiction (not stated as a word, but using a work of fiction by Dante to establish criteria for “known truths” shows a lack of understanding for the word fiction)
Seriously… was the author working from the Bizarro dictionary?
Has this been posted here yet?
Threatening posts not protected free speech
I’ll bet this just delights the hearts of the pearl clutchers over at The Crossroads.
Sili, I think your reply @586 was aimed at me, but for some reason I’m getting mostly the Fnt Fail Squares f Death.
However, I think my non-tamperable workplace browser is to blame.
also, a brief note on the Bacon Jam recipe posted on an earlier incarnation of the Endless Thread. Bacon-loving son says, interesting, but meh. Certainly it doesn’t say BACON. It’s a nice savory spread, however, with a bacon-y after-taste. I may have used too big an onion. I made 2 batches, one using Very Good Bacon and one using the cheap stuff from our local grocery – no discernible difference in final results.
negentropyeater/#598:
I am so doing a short post with those Meisler bits. Just FYI.
(/And will cite here, natch.)
Ah, Paul W! How quaint. You’ve got a cute little ‘OM’ next to your name now.
(/… Erm, but I see from the Oracle at Google that that would be ‘Meslier’.)
/sports threadjack
One more day for the Pharyngula NCAA bracket.
email me bigdumbchimp [at] gmail dot com
if you want in
/sports threadjack
@600
IANAL, but I don’t have an issue with that ruling. There is a difference between a one-off comment containing invective and intentional, ongoing campaign to harass and threaten a person on their web site. I suppose the only part that concerns me is how “threat” could be defined.
Sven,
Due entirely to your suggestion, made a visit to the local Trader Joe’s yesterday and I came away with these items–Butter Chicken, a new item to me, will try it on your recommendation. 2 Chicken Ticca Masala’s (oh yum) 2 beef taquitos and one Spicy Guacamole (for the taquitos).
Gotta agree with ya, let TJ’s do the cooking. Oh, and I polished off the last chunk of the 85% dark coco (sp) chocolate bar from TJ’s purchased last week. I do like their selection of candy too.
Dark Chocolate, especially the stuff over 75% cocoa solids or over is good for you. Like red wine.
So you can have a glass of wine with dinner, and follow it with a couple of squares of chocolate and not feel guilty.
Ummmmm, Dark chocolate, since I don’t drink I’ll have a second helping of dark chocolate, please!
:)
Actually one of my favorite ways to have it.
Well that or with a glass of nice Whiskey (or Whisky for that matter).
Thirded.
Had some in China, didn’t like them…
I haven’t seen that ad yet (even though I get another by fightglobalwarming.com, for instance right now – the one with yellow background and just the “poll”). The ads are targeted to your IP address… most I get are for a French dating site, or maybe several.
And I get the annoying rationalresponders.com a lot.
:-)
Yep.
X-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
Reminds me of a few adjective ticks that developed between my siblings…
The copyright is the right to copy.
Heaven.
:-D
For how many hours straight can you eat chocolate? :-) Haven’t clocked myself, but… several.
=8-)
nuqneH? ;-)
Everyone except maybe himself does.
:-)
Congratulations to both of you!
:-D
Several Ancient Greek philosophers with Wikipedia articles would disagree, and this guy only fails on account of not having written his philosophy down.
“The three authors of the Vedas were buffoons, knaves, and demons.
All the well-known formulae of the pandits, jarphari, turphari, etc.
and all the obscene rites for the queen commanded in the Aśvamedha[*],
these were invented by buffoons, and so all the various kinds of presents to the priests […]”
* Involves fu
cking a dead stallion, among many other things.Won-der-ful.
Chocolate is weird. I don’t normally like the stuff. However, due to recurrent gut infections (don’t worry everyone…I am seeing a gastroenterologist) I am frequently on clear liquids for a week to ten days at a time. It is very hard to balance sugar/salts and this turns my mind to goo*. Nonetheless, when I am allowed to eat solid food again, I always have a craving for chocolate…lately in the form of dark chocolate Reese’s cups. For some reason, these don’t make me feel nausea the way that other foods do. I never bother with candy otherwise.
Maybe I’m pregnant.
*Incidentally, also coincides with the majority of my Pharyngula activity.
It is fascinating. It’s really a tricky subject.
I know that personally I was afraid until recently to even attempt posting anything I made or did on the internet. Now that my music “career” is pretty in the chamberpot I’m not so shy and as of recent years the potential damage that certain people could cause me has been reduced significantly. I know I don’t sing that well, but neither do half the people I hear with record contracts so what’s the difference?
Meh… I’ve been on so many sides of issues like that one that it is hard to imagine there is ever any good rule that can be applied but rather that some kind of intervening group is needed so I am kind of glad that in the case above that some legal action was taken.
What’s sad is that I can see how the people making the threats aren’t specifically evil or actually motivated to do harm, but I can also see how the threats could destroy some one’s current life and ability to attend school or leave them feeling unsure about the validity of the threats.
Oh, thank you Bride for the first belly laugh of the day! Someone upstream posted the link to the recipe – did you get it? If not, email me at spokesgay [a] gmail.com.
@Bill Dauphin – thanks for letting us know you’ve got Mad Publishin’ Skillz. They may come in handy!
re 594:
The point is that would indeed be observable consequences of an earth centered universe that would be inconsistent with our actual observations. I think your mistake is that only inertail frames of reference are “indistinguishable” in Special Theory of Relativity. Acceleration (non-inertail frames) breaks the symmetry resulting in the twin “paradox”. The “paradox” is not that the travelling twin ages slower, but that it appears to violate being able to set either frame as the reference. If the two twins frames are equivalent, then both twins should see the other age slower. What breaks the symmetry is that one is not in an inertial frame while accelerating to near the speed of light and decelerating again. This is what General Relativity was developed to cover.
An earth centered universe is exactly equivalent to the travelling twin trying to view himself at rest and the rest of the universe accelerating around him. His observations would be inconsistent with the assumption of being in an inertial frame.
David M: Have I ever mentioned how awesomely knowledgeable you are about almost everything? I learnt about a whole new philosophical movement from your post at #613.
===
Ol’Greg,
FWIW, I clicked on the link in your name the other day (out of curiosity) and have listened to a couple of your songs. I think you’re very talented.
Except that it’s apparently better if you replace the wine by chocolate altogether. :-> Alcohol looks more noxious every time a new study comes out.
And the effect of 75-% dark chocolate can be reached by simply eating more of the good, 40-% stuff :-)
Moreover, wine is acidic, and that’s bad for your teeth. Chocolate is not acidic, but still disinfects your mouth – theobromine FTW!
re 617:
blockquote should have continued through,
“The basic move I’m thinking of is to simply label the Earth’s intertial frame of reference as being the One True Frame of Reference—with no observable consequences—and use Einstein’s theory as a black box that predicts where things will appear to be relative to that.”
See also, Mach’s Principle”
Hey Rev. Here is a bracket that is for a different kind of title.
I just don’t get “Vox Day”. From the fact that he has to use such a ridiculous and pretentious pseudonym despite the fact that everyone on the internet knows his middle name; to the transparently stupid arguments and pointless atheist-bashing; to the whole “my IQ is higher than yours” thing; to the fact that he has so little integrity as to be willing to write for WorldNetDaily; to the fact that he pretends to be a libertarian. The latter really pisses me off. He’s a classic example of a reactionary right-winger who thinks it looks cool to call himself a “libertarian”, but doesn’t have a f*cking clue what libertarianism is actually about, and doesn’t actually give a toss about individual freedom except when it’s convenient to use it as a rhetorical device. The only pseudo-“libertarian” who pisses me off more is Glenn Beck.
Sorry for the rant. I have not had a good week.
?
Sorry! I frakked that up! I’ll try again. Dear Friend,
Of all the malevolent forces in American politics, who do you think is the worst of the worst?
CREDO Action is sponsoring the Bracket of Evil for March Madness, featuring evildoers like Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin, Joe Lieberman, and many others. You can help decide who wins.
I just filled out my Bracket of Evil, and you should too! Just head to:
http://BracketOfEvil.com
“Middle name” should obviously have read “real name”.
Argh.
Oh nice!
Thanks, that’s what I was grasping at but had forgotten far enough that I wasn’t able to explain it anymore.
I think it was on Pharyngula where I learnt that Einstein had wondered whether to call it “Theory of Invariance” instead of “Theory of Relativity”: among its core points are that the speed of light is not relative, and that acceleration isn’t either (even though steady movement is).
You just get that impression because I shut up about all the rest :-)
Till at least your current age, I had no idea about it, and thought atheism was Western-only (if not Enlightenment-only), till I read Amartya Sen’s fascinating book Development as Freedom, where it happens to be mentioned. Then I found it again in an abridged version of Oswald Spengler’s The Downfall of the Occident (Spengler’s knowledge was phenomenal, even if his imagination was perhaps a bit limited), and then I somehow stumbled over the Wikipedia article, which doesn’t merely mention its existence, but gives details and links to even more detailed sites!
If you want to learn something these days, steal a few hours and follow this approach.
…Have you been to the doctor yet?
I phoned the college nurse this morning. But having slept for about 12 hours last night, I feel much better, and no longer have any symptoms apart from a sore throat. I’m planning to avoid any physical exertion for the next few days, but I think I’m recovering.
Whether my finals revision will recover is, of course, another matter. At this rate, my future career is most likely to involve wearing a sandwich-board. :-(
Lyrebird
Paul W,
But this just doesn’t work. How can you use Einstein’s black box as you say, if you deny the principle of relativity. The black box results entirely from the principle of relativity. For example in Special Relativity, the Lorentz transformations (I guess what you call the black box) can be derived from the principle of relativity alone.
What would be the value of the Lorentz factor 1/sqrt(1-(v/c)^2) when v>c ?
The only thing you’d get are meaningless results, not even wrong.
Ol’Greg:
New atheism is simply old atheism that refuses to move to the back of the bus.
Quite.
Or, similarily: new is what you call an atheist who’s voice is too widely heard for you simply to ignore.
Good! :-)
That’s another thing you’re too young to worry about.
Oh Nohs! Not in Euphemism week!
How to comment???
‘The head of Ireland’s Catholics has apologised for his role in mishandling the case of a serial child abuser.’
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8572081.stm
well that’s alright then – what a relief
So, I’m curious. Say, hypothetically, the fundagelicals are right, and the rapture happens tomorrow. Will you all convert?
So, I’m curious. Say, hypothetically, the Assistas are right, and The Religion of My Backside is proven right tomorrow. Will you wipe me?
Just read this
He’s had 35 bleeding YEARS to reflect!
csreid, the rapture will occur without warning. But then, it is based on writing from a person who had a mystical experience with hallucinogenic mushrooms/cactus 2000 years ago. What are the chances it is right? So low, why worry. About the same as the floor of Lake Michigan opening up and draining all the water out. Enjoy the world as it is, without imaginary deities.
In general I have almost no use for considering hypothetical situations. There is a long list of hypothetical situations I’d have to run through before that one seemed important enough to ask myself.
For instance, what if it turned out that a species of alien plant virus had reached earth in a meteorite or something and infected plants became massive and carnivorous, engulfing miles of land in sticky acidic tendrils that burned flesh on contact. Where, in such a world, would I go to buy a hamburger?
So, I’m curious. Say hypothetically,the Aztecs were right, will it be O.K. for me to cut your heart out and burn it?
(with apologies to Josh OSG)
csreid:
Well, the odds of it happening…let’s just say they aren’t good. If a whole lot of people were “whisked away” I wouldn’t automatically think “rapture!”.
If Jesus knocked on my door, came in for tea and provided evidence of godhood, I would nod and say okay. You’re real. That would be it. I wouldn’t believe (as in have faith; worship) him.
No. Even if I discovered beyond doubt that he existed, I wouldn’t want to worship a god who chose the likes of Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson as his messengers. Their doctrine is so grossly immoral that, if I were to burn in hell for rejecting it, I would choose to go to hell rather than convert.
This story:
Hell is the Absence of God
depicts a scenario where a God much like that described by fundamentalist religionists is real, and provides empirical evidence for his existence. But knowing that God is real does not mean one has a get-into-heaven-free ticket.
In that world, I would side with the humanists as described, and choose to go to Hell.
This reminds me of Granny Weatherwax and Nanny Ogg from the Discworld books – who gladly admit that the gods exist, but don’t go around believing in them. “Gives ’em ideas.” (I’m too lazy to google the exact quote.) :-)
Thanks Walton :D
That actually means a lot to me!
Argh, blockquote fail. I was intending to quote Caine @#643:
csreid,
I’m a little bit confused with the rapture thingy. Which version of the rapture are you thinking of?
. Dispensationalist Premillennialist
. Pre-tribulationist Dispensationalist
. Pre-tribulationist non Dispensationalist
. Amillennialist
. Postmillennialist
. Historic Premillennialist
. Mid-tribulationist
. Prewrathist
. Partialist
. Posttribulationist
??
csreid:
Here’s a list of some of the world’s deities:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deities
Are you going to cover your ass with all of them?
As long as you’re going the ass covering route, how are going to cover it with all these brands of christianity?
Topic shift – sad but beautiful song of the day:
Puff the Magic Dragon
Though the funny part is that Peter, Paul and Mary had to spend much of the remainder of their musical careers explaining to people that the song isn’t, in fact, about marijuana. Apparently the perceived double-meaning was completely accidental. It’s intended to be interpreted straightforwardly, as a poignant story about loss of childhood innocence.
Watching this particular performance also makes me want to grow a goatee. :-)
I always loved that song when I was a little girl, it made me so sad.
A dragon lives forever, but not so little boys;
Painted wings and giant rings make way for other toys.
One grey night it happened: Jackie Paper came no more,
And Puff, that mighty dragon, he ceased his fearless roar.
His head was bent in sorrow; green scales fell like rain,
Puff no longer went to play along the cherry lane.
Without his life-long friend, Puff could not be brave,
So Puff that mighty dragon sadly slipped into his cave.
Growing up isn’t much fun, really. :-(
Some Christians believe hell is eternal death while heaven is eternal life. Eternal death often equates to extinction. So in a sense, if the rapture did happen tomorrow, atheists (and possibly Buddhists) will have reached the same destination regardless.
Also, as Walton said, rather be in Hell than with an evil God.
Generally speaking, I was usually toking (but not one toke over the line*) when I listened to
.
*;)
@ Walton and Ol’Greg – Ah, Puff the Magic Dragon. That’s a childhood favorite too, and yes, it’s so sad.
When I was little and needed tucked in, my mother would sing “You Are My Sunshine” to me. It always made me dissolve into a puddle of tears (even thinking about her singing it makes me choke up!). She could never understand why I wanted her to sing it to me – “But it makes you cry,” she’d say.
I guess it’s rather like worrying a canker sore with your tongue – it hurts, but it hurts good. Does anyone know what I mean?
Walton, you’re torturing me! Just reading those lyrics made me cry (and I will never, ever, admit to doing that again, cuz SpokesGay is hard):))
This shouldn’t make anyone sad
Wir haben diese Fische in unsere Ozeane?
Yeah, I definitely know the feeling you mean.
And here’s my favourite cover of You Are My Sunshine.
Does this damn thing really not work?
Well, that’s a nice rendition, but I prefer it sung in a more straightforward way, with less messing around with the meter and melody. Preferably with two voices in close harmony (mainly thirds).
Sven must have typo’ed.
Eat vegemite and die, powers that be!
Fuck censorship!
This is for all the 2 Tone lovers in the Falklands.
I wonder if this will work…
If it does, what a cock up!
I think that I for a long while associated Puff with the Disney cartoon for some reason. I don’t think I’ve ever seen it, but that big green dragon still sticks in my mind.
Sad songs?
Smile. Funny – as a kid the Tramp never looked that young to me. How age changes one. The words don’t hurt.
Some of the nastiest. most vile, evil people on the planet (such as the pope and its bishops, the fundanutters, Cheney and its sockpuppet, Bush the Peabrained) will, hopefully, have vanished, never to return. I’d have a massive celebration, and should I recover, wonder what it was that my education and books and thinking missed.
Can’t find a good version of this in Danish, but I don’t think the sadness carries over without context.
It’s originally a song from a light play, but it has become entangled with funerals in Denmark. To the point that it’s in the new revised psalter. We used it when my paternal grandparents were taken from home to the chapel before the service, and that sadness has become intrinsically linked to the song in my mind. We used it for my mother’s service as well – we ended up having one since neither of us knew what to do in the circumstances, so a ‘master of ceremonies’ came in handy, even if the paternoster &c were empty posturing.
Unfuck this gobshite.
Don’t forget that the real hardcore fundagelicals don’t think Catholics are “real Christians”, along with anyone who isn’t a hardline evangelical Biblical-literalist Protestant. So presumably they wouldn’t be raptured, and we’d be stuck with thousands of (entirely redundant) Catholic clergy, not to mention Mormons, Episcopalians, Muslims, Bahá’í, Scientologists, and all the other religious groups that turned out to have got it wrong?
Sorry about the miscommunication – I wasn’t trying to argue in favor of religion, just posing a question.
@Walton
I definitely can see where you’re coming from with that… although at that point, it would probably be a lose/lose situation. Either there’s the hell of fire and brimstone, or the hell of eternity with evangelicals.
@negentropyeater
Ha, I have no idea, I wasn’t aware that there were so many flavors.
@Caine
I didn’t look at the list you provided, but I’ll admit that the huge number of deities besides the Judeo-Christian god was a big part of my deconversion. Actually, it was the last straw, and that eureka moment happened while I was reading Pharyngula. So, everybody – thanks for that :D
Though the funny part is that Peter, Paul and Mary had to spend much of the remainder of their musical careers explaining to people that the song isn’t, in fact, about marijuana. – Walton
I remain slightly sceptical – even given the trio’s ultra-conformist appearance. After all, the Beatles denied that Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds was about LSD.
I see your sad and beautiful and move on to suicidal and beautiful.
End Of The Rainbow
I feel for you, you little horror
Safe at your mother’s breast
No lucky break for you around the corner
‘Cause your father is a bully
And he thinks that you’re a pest
And your sister she’s no better than a whore.
Life seems so rosy in the cradle,
But I’ll be a friend I’ll tell you what’s in store
There’s nothing at the end of the rainbow.
There’s nothing to grow up for anymore
Tycoons and barrow boys will rob you
And throw you on the side
And all because they love themselves sincerely
And the man holds a bread knife
Up to you throat is four feet wide
And he’s anxious just to show you what it’s for.
Your mother works so hard to make you happy
But take a look outside the nursery door
There’s nothing at the end of the rainbow.
There’s nothing to grow up for anymore
And all the sad and empty faces
That pass you on the street
All running in their sleep, all in a dream
Every loving handshake
Is just another man to beat
How your heart aches just to cut him to the core
Life seems so rosy in the cradle,
But I’ll be a friend I’ll tell you what’s in store
There’s nothing at the end of the rainbow.
There’s nothing to grow up for anymore
Yay! I’m not the only one who de-converted since I started commenting here. :-)
This one is safe, no double meaning :
proud to be a stoner
So you’re asking us if a hypothetical tribalist tyrant proved his existence by stepping up and seizing power, would I kiss his ass to save my skin?
I believe the definition of integrity is to answer that question with an emphatic no.
Well, if the/a Rapture happened tomorrow, it’d be too late to be saved, so it wouldn’t matter whether I believe or not.
Don’t know why I thought of this – I’m in no way, shape or form a poëtry guy – but it seems appropriate for euphemism week.
negentropyeater,
Well, looking at the derivation from your link, what is really at stake is the locality of interactions: one supposes that the influence that one particle, say, exerts on another can not be transmitted instantaneously, and here c represents the highest possible speed, so that v ≤ c.
Anyway, in your hypothetical, you’d get ‘imaginary’ results, but they would not be meaningless, the problem would be how to interpret the result.
Knockgoats:
No, it’s true that the song isn’t about weed or any other drug. The poem was written in ’58 or ’59, and the author has clearly stated it was a child’s poem and had nothing to do with drugs. Ditto the songwriter.
On Puff the Magic Dragon and poignancy –
It just occurred to me the chord progression in Puff is the same as in Pachelbel’s Canon (except Canon is in D maj., while most versions of Puff are in G maj.):
I-V-vi-iii-IV-I-IV-V (or subs. V7 for any V)
Sure, it’s one of the most common chord progressions in pop/rock music, and it’s overused. But it does have this intrinsically bittersweet quality. Why that’s so is another question.
Jebus, Walton, that was beautiful! Thanks! (Sorry, Josh, but that one got to me.)
Re “Puff”… I’ve had that song running through my head ever since it dawned on me, while reading the anniversary thread, that PZ and the TW™ are in fact Paul and Mary, and started wondering if they might not have a friend named Peter. ;^)
Also, I autodopeslapped myself when you mentioned clicking on Ol’ Greg’s name and getting to hear her songs. I’m always curious about the people around here, and yet somehow I never think to click on their frakkin’ names. Off to give a listen right now….
csreid:
That’s nice to hear, thank you! :D A long time ago, Marcus Aurelius said:
That sums up my attitude. If the Abrahamaic god did exist, there is no way I would ever bow down to such an evil. I would have a shitload of questions though.
Josh @#679: Yeah, cellists noticed this before you did…
Incidentally, that video led me to look up this song,, which I posted on a previous subThread – and which I oddly really like.
Addendum to #682: The better-known version, sung by the eccentric Jinx Dawson (whose other work I don’t much care for, incidentally).
Green Day’s “Basket Case” and Blues Traveler’s “The Hook” are obvious examples. (It seems to me “The Hook” even lampshades that fact in the lyrics.)
“Growing up isn’t much fun, really. :-( ”
Nonsense. I have had unutterable joys along with almost unbearable pains in becoming an adult. I would have had none of them being a child.
Sex; sunrise on the beach after a night of drinking; holding my first born in my arms; holding each of my new granddaughters; burying loved ones; surviving a fire fight and feeling totally alive; saving a life; having a life bleed out from under my hands; making mistakes, making people happy; giving; taking; sharing; first hit of pot; first taste of seriously good cognac (a story in its own right); watching myself bleed and wondering at the lack of pain; having the pain suddenly leap into focus; first coffee in the morning; last cigarette at night; love; love lost; love found; love wrenched away by suicide; love returned to reclaim my shell and fill me – all these moments are adult, all the joys and all the pains and all the moments in time. I would not trade a single joy, a single sorrow to be a child again. Of course, my childhood sucked so your mileage may vary. And this may just be sharing too much. (smile)
Take big bites, nibbling is for those afraid to eat of the tree of life.
Caine, Fleur du mal,
Thanks. Still, as the pomos remind us, we can’t just take an author’s word for what their works mean! Reminds me of a fantasy short story in which Shakespeare is brought forward in time, and introduced to the works of literary critics. His response is something like:
“Ye gods, what cannot be wrung from words in five centuries? One could, methinks, wring a flood from a damp clout!”
He is later entered for an examination on his plays, and fails miserably.
@ Walton:
A slight correction, my monarchical friend. I just noticed the identical chord progressions between the two pieces. I didn’t claim that no one else had ever noticed the ubiquity of the Canon chord progression in Western music. I’m well aware that they have. And yes, I’ve seen that very funny video ranting about it:)
JeffreyD: That was poetic, and very beautiful, and made me cry a little.
Pharyngufoodies:
Top Chef is going on tour! Dates and details are mostly unavailable so far, but anyone feel like trying to meet up at one of those stops?
Wow, that was awesome.
Fair enough. My response was mainly aimed at providing me with an excuse to post that video. :-)
Knockgoats:
:D As I mentioned upthread, I was often in an alternate reality when I listened to songs such as Puff. While it’s a poignant song, it can be amusing when doing a certain type of smoking.
It is an awesome video, Walton. On the larger question of why certain melodies and harmonic progressions provoke certain emotions – I’m vexed by the question.
I like that video. Thanks, Walton.
I’m no ethnomusicologist, but there seem to be some musical relationships that evoke emotions fairly universally and others that don’t.
Wow. What a contentless sentence. Sorry.
PZ must be too engrossed with reading his pathetic, biased Australian newsapers and enjoying his Vegem*te-on-toast to notice we’ve gone over the comment limit.
@Caine #681
I can’t agree with that more. It sounds to me almost like anti-Pascal’s wager. I have a very Christian friend with whom I was discussing my lack of belief. She gave up when I told her that I plan on living a good life, dedicated to the betterment of the life of my fellow Homo sapiens through acquisition of knowledge, charity, and kindness, and if that’s not good enough for god, I’ll be in good company in hell.
Walton sez:
I started out lurking here as a vague, general pantheist. I came to the conclusion that I believed in God(s) because I wanted to, not because there was any real evidence. So, I started examining *why* I wanted to believe, and came to the conclusion that it mostly was force of habit. I was raised fairly devout Episcopalian: we went to church weekly, Dad was involved in the Vestry, stuff like that – in discussing things with Dad later, I discovered that he himself didn’t really believe either, but was raised to believe that going to church and being part of the community was simply what one did as an adult, so he did.
My progression seems to have been fairly typical, I’m discovering: I couldn’t believe in Christianity (well, I’ve got a brain, and let’s face it, the god of the bible ain’t a nice chap), had an Experience and converted to a form of paganism, was active in pagan circles for a long time mostly because I liked the symbol set. Well, I still go to circle (sometimes) because, yeah, I do like the symbol set of that particular tradition, but I never did *believe* in the Gods, whatever that means. I just like ceremony and acknowledging the transitions of the seasons.
but yeah, I now use the A-word to describe myself pretty much. Thanks, guys.
If you’re not careful, Walton, you shall end up a peacenik.
I try to understand the technical music talk, but it just does not resonate with me.
Walton sez:
I started out lurking here as a vague, general pantheist. I came to the conclusion that I believed in God(s) because I wanted to, not because there was any real evidence. So, I started examining *why* I wanted to believe, and came to the conclusion that it mostly was force of habit. I was raised fairly devout Episcopalian: we went to church weekly, Dad was involved in the Vestry, stuff like that – in discussing things with Dad later, I discovered that he himself didn’t really believe either, but was raised to believe that going to church and being part of the community was simply what one did as an adult, so he did.
My progression seems to have been fairly typical, I’m discovering: I couldn’t believe in Christianity (well, I’ve got a brain, and let’s face it, the god of the bible ain’t a nice chap), had an Experience and converted to a form of paganism, was active in pagan circles for a long time mostly because I liked the symbol set. Well, I still go to circle (sometimes) because, yeah, I do like the symbol set of that particular tradition, but I never did *believe* in the Gods, whatever that means. I just like ceremony and acknowledging the transitions of the seasons.
but yeah, I now use the A-word to describe myself pretty much. Thanks, guys.
csreid, at least she gave up! Maybe she’ll see the light one day. It was a good tack, it simply makes god superfluous.
Walton, crying a little is fine, but laughing is better on a regular basis. Death and pain are waiting on you, build up an armour of laughter and it will help protect you when life strips you naked.
To continue the Tom Waits mini theme:
And an Indigo Girls that hits home with me:
Walton sez:
I started out lurking here as a vague, general pantheist. I came to the conclusion that I believed in God(s) because I wanted to, not because there was any real evidence. So, I started examining *why* I wanted to believe, and came to the conclusion that it mostly was force of habit. I was raised fairly devout Episcopalian: we went to church weekly, Dad was involved in the Vestry, stuff like that – in discussing things with Dad later, I discovered that he himself didn’t really believe either, but was raised to believe that going to church and being part of the community was simply what one did as an adult, so he did.
My progression seems to have been fairly typical, I’m discovering: I couldn’t believe in Christianity (well, I’ve got a brain, and let’s face it, the god of the bible ain’t a nice chap), had an Experience and converted to a form of paganism, was active in pagan circles for a long time mostly because I liked the symbol set. Well, I still go to circle (sometimes) because, yeah, I do like the symbol set of that particular tradition, but I never did *believe* in the Gods, whatever that means. I just like ceremony and acknowledging the transitions of the seasons.
but yeah, I now use the A-word to describe myself pretty much. Thanks, guys.
Anthony? That’s how I describe myself in RL too, mostly because it’s a habit I inherited from my folks.
arugh! I hate multiple postings! I don’t know what happened – I only hit submit once, really I did!
Psssst, Becca, you can say atheist here. It’s a protected environment. ;D
(Psst, Caine, cm’ere! See that gal over there, Becca? She’s like, an atheist and stuff. C’mon, let’s dip her pigtails in the inkwell!)
Josh, you do the ink, I’m getting gum…
Hate to break it to you, but… according to Catholicism, there won’t be any rapture, ever. Only a few American Protestant denominations believe in the Rapture. The pope is here to stay. Unless he suddenly decides to step back because of the latest scandal in Germany; rumors to that effect already exist. But in that case, there’d be a new election and a new pope who’d be here to stay.
Also, Fearless Flightsuit might believe in it, but Richard the Lying-Hearted? :-/
That depends on your choice from the list in comment 648!
As opposed to Poe-try?
It’s a nice example, to return to a short-lived topic from last subthread, of “oh” (coats, throats, don’t) pronounced as [ɵʉ].
X-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
Day saved! Was about time (10 minutes before midnight). :-)
John,
No, we know how we could interpret this result, ie an imaginary Lorentz factor: you’d get an imaginary time dilation, it would mean that what would be travelling faster than light relative to the inertial frame of reference of the observer, would be travelling backwards in time relative to the other frame. This would mean that in this other frame of reference, an effect could be observed before its cause. Such a violation of causality has never been observed, which means we’d get a meaningless result.
Becca – I deconverted through paganism too, later I found out lots of people do. It’s the kinder, gentler woo.
Does anyone know if there are special togs for the kite flying sport? I’ve been invited and don’t have a clue.
It’s also interesting how much can be changed within one single such background. Experimenting on myself, I have found I can… “perform”* funeral marches in such a way that the result isn’t sadness, but wrath, holy wrath, you know, the will to start the Revolution, that kind of thing. In other words, I can turn Chopin’s funeral march or Mozart’s requiem into the Imperial March without twisting the tune in the slightest.
* Hum, hum while holding the jaws so that the teeth participate in the vibration in some tones, whistle, bang the teeth together with my mouth open**, growl, use velaric-egressive trills (like a click, but in the other direction), and so on.
** Whether that’s even audible depends on the acoustics.
If it was just the dragon’s name “Puff”, then it would be easier to accept their denial, but what makes it difficult is also naming the boy “Paper”.
Move along, move along.