Ay yi yi
Minnesota’s very own Michele Bachmann starts praising science, but I don’t think that word means what she thinks it means, since she concludes with “science ultimately conforms to god’s truth”.
Pity us. This raving fruitbat is our 6th district congresscreature.
I feel for you, PZ. Here’s hoping she gets herself booted out the door when she next comes up for re-election.
Michele Bachmann espouses much of what the Mormon Church teaches. She knows that homosexuality is an abomination,and that abortion is a the taking of human life, and she isn’t afraid to say it. If Govenor Romney was selected as the Republican presidential nominee, Bachmann would have been an excellent choice for his running mate in the VP slot.
Good grief – and I thought we in Northern Ireland had it bad with Iris Robinson!
If that’s the case, someone should ask her if she follows what the bible says about the place of women. I believe it deals with that in Corinthians and Timothy – forgive me for not recalling the exact chapter and verse.
She’s a member of the Truth Squad for Palin.
How can a college town have such a freak as a representative?
Here is an excellent article on the view of the LDS Church
(Mormon) on women.
http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Conferences/2006_Lives_of_Mormon_Women.html
The Mormon Church is not afraid of science, it embraces it because it knows that science will reveal more and more of the wonderful creation of God. There is a very good science department at Brigham Young University.
Hey! Don’t diss fruit bats like that.
Sniff, sniff, I smell a troll. Sniff, ah one of those hit and run types who has nothing to say, and says it anyway.
wtf! She’d be laughed out of office in the UK.
Z
Shorter Llauraa the Mormonotonous @ #2:
Fags are hellbound, this I know,
’cause some old guys told me so.
And you women, listen, too –
Your bodies don’t belong to you.
Who dat “Dr. Robbie George who teaches up at Princeton” fella dat she pimpin?
Llauraa, seriously, you’d have a better chance of converting any of us here to your kooky cult by selling it door-to-door. And I have many large dogs with long snouts full of sharp, shiny teeth.
Who dat “Dr. Robbie George who teaches up at Princeton” fella dat she pimpin?
http://www.peopleforlife.org/robert.html
1 Corinthians 14:34
As in all the churches of God’s holy people, women are to remain quiet in the assemblies, since they have no permission to speak: theirs is a subordinate part.
1 Timothy 2:11-12
During instruction, a woman should be quiet and respectful. I give no permission for a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. A woman ought to be quiet.
Ahh-good old brick testament. http://www.thebricktestament.com/epistles_of_paul/instructions_for_women/1tm02_11-12.html
From SC’s link:
From his Princeton page:
From her subsequent blatherings about cord-blood and adult stem cells, I made the mistake of assuming that he might be a stem-cell researcher.
Lightnin,
Thanks for that. I should have taken the time to do the research but I wanted to get my post in. I’ve since had a look through the Skeptic Annotated Bible and found they’ve got a section devoted to pointing out why, according to the bible, women are second-class citizens.
Llauraa wrote:
Do they have special courses for coping with the cognitive dissonance?
bwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111
Wow that’s scarily mental.
Pardon me if I ignore the thread hi-jacking by llauraa.
Michelle the Kisser represents a district that was gerrymandered through the conservative sections of central Minnesota, the northern suburbs and an eastern suburban county. She doesn’t represent a “college town.” There are some colleges in her district, including St. Cloud State which was recently a hotbed of anti-Jewish activity. That has since been fixed, from what I understand, but it also illustrates that Minnesota is hardly any sort of liberal oasis. We have our idiots, just like any other state.
The Mormon (LDS) Church is rather more wacko than most Christian religions. According to the almost unreadable Book of Mormon, the Americas were settled by not one but two waves of immigrants from Israel. These two groups failed to leave any archaeological, linguistic or anthropological evidence that they were ever anywhere near Palmyra, New York.
Praise science!*
* as long as it reaps benefits for me and it is not applied consistently to all things I believe
Llauraa said:
Folks like Pons and Fleishman?
Anyone have a good link on the various types of stem cell research and which one is actually providing the most promising results so far?
Llauraa – Are you aware that most Americans aren’t Mormons?
Moreover, most Americans do not view homosexuality as an abomination, and most are pro-choice–especially if the choice involves a pregnancy that affects them personally.
In a democracy, any member of the public has a right to examine the bases of policies that affect them, and are paid for with their taxes, in every detail, and with no obligation to show the least reverence to ideas they find stupid, illogical, or poorly supported.
So if a politician tries to base a law–affecting people who do not share her religious beliefs–on whatever some pastor tells her, and members of the public point out that (a) her beliefs are nebulous, ego-stroking hokum; (b) her pastor is a self-serving, misogynist creep; and (c) she is a nitwit for taking them and him seriously, she is in no position to complain that her precious religious beliefs are being disrespected.
But they do, nevertheless.
The secularity of American public life is what economists call a commons. It’s the reason America has been spared much of the religious violence you see in other places. We shouldn’t have to tell the Michelle Bachmanns of this country that their religious beliefs are idiotic (with the attendant public rancor), because we shouldn’t have to know about it, any more than we should know about her sex life. Instead, she and others, are despoiling that commons with her insistence that the rest of us toe the line on their religious beliefs.
Bachmann may be a good match for Romney, but she isn’t a good match for the rest of us.
The Mormon (LDS) Church is rather more wacko than most Christian religions.
Christopher Hitchens is not a great historical scholar by any means, but:
http://www.slate.com/id/2165033/
No, science ultimately has and will definitely disprove any imaginary gods. Bachmann and her relgious hordes make all the uses of science every day without recourse to their insane religious nonsense, and this only proves the dominion of science over the nonexistenst gods formed by disabled minds. Science has proved facts, religion has proved nothing and never will.
“This raving fruitbat is our 6th district congresscreature.”
Hmmm… the use of the word ‘creature’ implies creation, PZ. Are you becoming a creationist?
I seriously doubt that this lady is a raving fruitbat. She is merely wrong about god(s). Running around hysterically screaming that everyone that you disagree with is ‘fundy’ or “batshit insane” is merely going to marginalize you further, which appears to be a major problem with atheists.
This is precisely the behavior that the fundies and neocons can point to and use to label us “batshit insane”.
I suspect she’s wrong about a great many more things than god(s).
Holbach wrote:
I have to disagree with you there, Holbach. Religion has proved one thing without a doubt – that no matter how much access people have to the truth many of them will choose the comfort of lies if it helps make them feel special.
TX CHL Instructor:
Your concern is noted.
You might want to discuss this subject with Matthew C. Nisbet PhD. You should find the two of you have much in common.
Willy, Pons and Fleischmann were at Utah.
You know PZ, you should probably get more sleep. You posted this at what, 5:30 AM?
Looking at her Wikipedia entry suggests she is wrong about a good number of things.
A quick glance shows she oppose abortion and gay rights and thinks homosexuality is a mental disorder, is a creationist, would support the use of nuclear weapons against Iran, opposes increasing the minimum wage, wants privatise social security and opposes attempts to reduce CO2 emissions.
I would say raving fruitbat pretty much covers it.
Pyroclasm, PZ has admitted to using a time delay feature for his posts. But I agree, he seems not to need much sleep.
She doesn’t know it. She believes it.
What she doesn’t know is that sexual orientation is something you’re born with. It’s even to some degree inheritable. In short, she doesn’t know what she’s talking about.
I repeat: sexual orientation is something you’re born with. Like skin color.
There was no chance of that happening, and you know that full well. The base of the Reptilian party — the evangelical fundies — would never vote for a Mormon, completely regardless of his or her qualifications.
Oh yes. For example, it has revealed that the Mormon teachings on the history of North America are wrong from A to Z. Go ahead, try to deny it. I wish you lots of fun.
Oh yes, there is, and it’s so good because it flat-out ignores all teachings of the Mormon Church! Or did you really believe the paleontologists there are young-earthers? They laugh at the concept.
No. They have no cognitive dissonance. B-)
German has a mildly derogatory word for “animal”. So does French to some extent. And so does English: it tends to end up being spelled critter.
Of all three, only the last descends from creature.
Don’t make arguments you don’t even believe yourself.
She is ignorant enough to believe homosexuality is an abomination — remember, upthread? –, and she wants creationism to be taught in science classes. Does that suffice as an answer?
[massive heart failure] HOLY SHI…….
Oh, whew. [/massive heart failure]
At 00:50 I thought she was going to rip off her face and it would be Kent Hovind underneath yelling, “I’m free you bastards!!!” I shat myself! Don’t do that, PZ! Whoa… …just breath… Oh, pasta!
Sounds like she’s preaching the prosperity science. Heysoos of Nazareth was big on personal wealth enhancement. Through science. Apparently.
Two years ago Bachmann told the congregation at the Living Word church that God told her to run for Congress and also that she is not lukewarm, but hot for God.
Wowbagger @ 29
Hard to refute that Wowbagger, just as it hard to comprehend a mind to turn a cracker into the body and blood of an imaginary god. Credulity is strained on both accounts, but more so in abject madness for the latter. Even science cannot penetrate a mind ossified by pernicious religion.
1. Mormons should read Sir Arthur Conan Doyle’s “A Study in Scarlet” and ponder the advisability of encouraging intolerance. 2. Godbotherers can redefine god faster than their definitions can be disproved 3. Consider it entertainment, and it may delay the ulcer.
Pons and Fleicshmann were at the U of U, not BYU. Yes, BYU has some good sience departments, but they are also limited. They have an excellent nature museum (been there a couple of times with my kid’s classes on field trips), but I hesitate to call it a natural history museum, because there wasn’t a single mention of evolution in the entire place. Lots of discussion on ecosystems, but no evolution. Maybe I missed it, or maybe they were refurbishing that display at the time – I don’t know. Several years later I took my kids to Thanksgiving Point to see their dinosaur museum. I thought it was a very good museum, and the displays were great, really impressive. Much to my suprise, most of the specimens belonged to BYU. So good, but limited (BYU, that is).
And it’s probably good to note that periodically BYU does a purge of professors (and the church does this periodically with their intellectuals) who don’t toe the party line, although that tends to be more in the history and philosophy departments, as I recall.
It’s hard to know what the official LDS stand on evolution is. Maybe some of you guys know, but I’ve never heard anything definite. Every now and then hard core LDS members of the state legislature try to get creationism into the school system, but the last time someone tried, it just faded into oblivion. On the other hand, I noticed the lack of any mention at all of evolution in the BYU natural museum, and what university sends such a spectacular set of dinosaur fossils to a commercial attraction?
As for the status of women in the LDS church – their theology explicitely puts women below men. Explicitly. This was explained to me more than once when I was a member. My purpose in life is supposed to be to marry missionaries and create more missionaries. I still remember the off-the-wall discussion with my bishop about that one.
This frightens me to no end: “God has given us unlimited resources. He is a kind and good guy.”
Well gee, god, thanks for the unlimited oil.
Congresswoman Bachmann doesn’t believe in global warming and says not to worry because Jesus saved the planet two thousand years ago.
I like how she says God has given us unlimited resources. I’m quite the fan of any politician who says, “There’ll always be enough oil!”
Llauraa #6 wrote:
This is basically the same point Michelle Bachmann is making: because God exists, and religion is true, then scientific studies and advancement will never undermine religious beliefs. The devout can relax.
Not necessarily. Faith doesn’t really move mountains. If God and its effects are made vague, remote, metaphorical, and flexible, then sure; science can’t undermine anything you believe about God. Its acts have no discernable consequences.
But believers like Bachmann and, I’m assuming, Llauraa, don’t believe in that kind of God (frankly, I doubt anyone really does.) No, they’re not taking a position that makes it pragmatically and theoretically impossible for science and religion to conflict: they can indeed butt against each other. The faithful are making God/religion empirically testable. They’re making predictions about what science will reveal, based on God’s existence.
Heheheh. Good luck with that.
Just in case Llauraa is still around, I’d like to ask her a question: what sorts of scientific discoveries would COUNT AGAINST God as creator? Try to be specific.
If every possible thing you can imagine only “reveals more and more of the wonderful creation of God,” then guess what? You’ve got ahold of that vague, remote, metaphorical, flexible — and meaningless — form of God which looks just like No God at all.
You want God confirmed by science, you take your chances it won’t be.
Lluraa @ 2 and 6
The moron church is just another aggreagation of unstable halfwits who formed their religion with the intention that their’s is the authentic one, and all other religions are made from the offshoots of mongrel sects gone crazy. “Hey, we are the real crazies here, not you.” “Bullshit, we are crazier than you and we will prove it by forming another religion and laughing at yours.” Morons, mormons, separated by a letter, but united by madness.
PZ wrote:
It reminds me of Kansas Senator and one time presidential candidate Sam Brownback’s New York Times Op-Ed, “What I Think About Evolution”:
http://normdoering.blogspot.com/2007/06/brownback-mountain.html
I expect Palin will eventually say something similar.
If you believe in a god, and if you believe that the scientific method will ultimately lead to discovery of truth, then… seems like what’s being said is straightforward. Ultimately science will “discover” the truths that exist–the ones created by the gods.
Ultimately science will conform to god’s truth.
That, plus all the nutty stuff. :)
The religious nuts love to hammer on about “embryonic stemcell research”, which she describes here as a “brutal tactic” because it involves destruction of the blastocyst–the pre-implantation fertilized egg. I wonder if she realizes that during the course of a normal married life a woman is likely to flush quite a few blastocysts down the toilet.
Congresswoman Bachmann wants an AR15 assault rifle.
Avidor @ 38 & 43
Good grief, it is hard to determine who is the more demented, Palin or Bachmann? Is there a run on insanity in our Congress? Why don’t we just shut the country down, and rely on the creotards power of prayer to their god to take over? So when their prayers are shown to be useless, and our country has sunk into miasmic ceespit, what will they next prescribe? This is getting to be serious and scary.
Keep in mind that this also the lady that claimed caribou love pipelines, falsely blamed Democrats for blocking renewable energy incentives, and repeated the lie about China drilling for oil off the Florida coast. She’s out of touch with reality.
Avidor @ 50
Why does she need an assault rifle? Can’t she just point her finger at a potential criminal and use the power of her imaginary god to subdue the slime? Nothing like the reality of an assault rifle to back up imaginary power. When will this madness end?
@Lightnin
I’ve never heard of the Brick Testament before. It’s hilarious. This one is great:
http://www.thebricktestament.com/epistles_of_paul/instructions_on_marriage/1co07_03a.html
“God has given us unlimited resources…”
No wonder conservatives are not a fan of conservation.
But seriously, this is yet another reason to hate religion. It teaches no matter how much we fuck up our planet, there is an invisible dad who’s gonna make it all right at the end of the day.
Incontheivable!
Matt wrote:
I’ve linked pictures from there several times to illustrate my blog:
http://normdoering.blogspot.com/2007/09/thank-you-mother-teresa-part-2_03.html
Wow, suddenly Canadian politicians look a lot better…thanks, I think. It seems that every time I read something regarding American politicians, I grow both more concerned about the state of our neighbors, and happier to be north of the border.
She’s hot, though. I’d tap that.
Llauraa is one of the stranger godbot trolls yet…
But she’s correct about BYU; they have a fine Biology Department with many faculty explicitly studying evolution. Jack Sites, for example, has been doing great work on the evolution of lizards for decades.
I assume, then, that the
LSDLDS Church views Genesis metaphorically.Of course, their Holy Book was found by a guy named Joe Smith in the form of some golden tablets guarded by a flaming white salamander, IIRC. *shrug* The Angel Moroni, indeed.
As strange as this may sound, I’m an atheist and I actually attend BYU. I came to my senses last October, and I only have 1 semester left to graduate so I think I’m just gonna stick it out. If you’re trying to find LDS views on evolution, good luck. No one has the balls to make an official statement on it. The best you’ll get is something like “the theory of evolution agrees with LDS doctrine as long as it doesn’t try to say that god doesn’t exist.” Really? Cause I couldn’t tell that the nonexistence of God was incompatible with your dogma. In practice though, I think the vast majority of the church rejects it. The campus newspaper had an article by some professor of “family science” (or something else dumb) that rejected all research on the evolution of love because “god created love.” The science departments here are actually pretty good, but sometimes I look at the professors and try to figure out how they can compartmentalize all that shit they believe and what they’re teaching. Thank Zeus that some science, philosophy, and math courses taught me how to think properly so I could escape that nonsense.
@Sven, #60
The LDS church only takes selective parts metaphorically. They don’t believe the Earth was created in 6 literal days, just 6 time periods or that it was created 6000 years ago. But, they still buy into all of the Adam and Eve/talking snake stuff. And my dad is convinced that the theory of evolution is wrong because even though the Earth isn’t 6000 years old, man has only been on the earth for 6000 years. And don’t even get me started on the “Garden of Eden is in Missouri” bullshit.
If all this science “ultimately conforms to God’s truth”, why are creationists continually coming up with ridiculous interpretations of basic geological data? It’s been a while since I eviscerated a creationist but I recently went back and had a look. And another. The arguments that get trotted out are so predictable that you can index them straight to counter-arguments on talkorigins.org. That isn’t science, and it certainly isn’t anybody’s idea of truth.
Well, obviously geology isn’t science, because it doesn’t conform to god’s truth.
Bachman is an embarassment; her opponent this cycle, named Tinklenberg, has a chance of unseating her. Sadly I live in the next door district, where moderate non-idiot Republican Jim Ramstad has recently retired, and we have a tight race to replace him between an intelligent moderate Democrat and an archconservative who seems to be somewhere between fruitbat and batshit, though most of his opinions are coded in the usual far-right generalities and innuendo.
By the way Bachmans rather famous appearance on the stage at Living Word church has gotten the pastor, Mac Hammond, in trouble. He’s a particularly odious cross between the Osteen Ken and Barbie Prosperity show and the reptilian Dobson hater. Hammond actively supported Bachman and others like her from his pulpit, pays no taxes, and zooms around on a private jet. His utterly egregious behavior and completely unrepentant attitude finally moved even the Bush IRS to investigate and perhaps go after his tax-exempt status.
http://www.minnesotamonitor.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=1265
One of his more colorful underlings just got sent up for 11 years for tax evasion and other colorful loonery, and Hammond has made a variety of taunting declarations lately, though apparently his travails have scared away a bunch of his supporters and his donations are on the decline.
By the way when PZ was tossed out of the Expelled showing last year, many of the local folks who were there were associated with this church; several of them lied and cavilled about what had happened on this very forum.
Seems to me that if Hammond goes down–looking likely–Bachman will suffer; and if Bachman is diselected, Hammond’s federal troubles will probably accelerate. They deserve each other.
Bachman has had a number of other colorful adventures. She made her reputation as a state legislator with a lot of gay-baiting and vituperative sanctimony, and once during a gay rally at the capitol she was lurking around and when a camera found her she hid in the bushes.
http://www.eleventh-avenue-south.com/archives/000491.html
It’s with mixed feelings that I await the election. If she wins, more entertainment, and her arrogant disregard is generally a plus for those inclined to favor intelligence and moderation. She tends to cling to and smoke out the most dangerous people, so she’s useful.
ice
That’s a bit harsh on fruitbats, isn’t it?
That’s a bit harsh on fruitbats, isn’t it?
Damn, didn’t mean to post that twice.
Oh well. It seems from speedy investigation that she’s practically Minnesota’s own Sarah Palin. I’ve just had a ghastly thought: Palin/Bachmann 2012? OH NO!
What an incredibly sexist comment to make. These are women, you are not allowed to be critical of their views, record or actions. Any hint of doing so is evidence of your underlying misogyny.
Funny thing you should say the BDC, Bachmann in particular seems willing to take offense on behalf of all American Women:
James Carville and Bachmann discuss Palin. (skip to about 6 mins for the fun, or watch the rest for yummy yummy context. If you do skip ahead, know that 2 minutes before Carville was contrasting Palin to Olympia Snow, who he considers qualified.)
“She knows that homosexuality is an abomination,and that abortion is a the taking of human life, and she isn’t afraid to say it.”
Holy crap. I skimmed over this comment at first, thinking it was just a warning comment from one of the regulars here about how non-moderate Romney could have been in office. But you’re serious?!
And you, Llurra, you’re the one who was bitching about PZ being anti-religious on his blog. These are the views that science is supposed to respect? What other bullshit are you proud of, that Lost Tribe of Zion story?
I really doubt you’re reading this, because you’re a cowardly hit-and-run artist, but fuck you. Seriously. Fuck you and your demented backwards cult of repressive magical thinking. From the bottom of my godless heart.
“…fuck you. Seriously. Fuck you and your demented backwards cult of repressive magical thinking. From the bottom of my godless heart.”
My sentiments exactly. I couldn’t have expressed it better.
Ack, the first line of my post above should read “Funny thing you should say that, BDC, Bachmann in particular …”
I know BDC is The King, can I be the Useless Sub-Minister of Typos?
It brought a little tear to my eye, that did.
What a twit. At what point in that interview did Carville say anything about her being unqualified because she was a woman. What a moron. All that feigned offense.
I mean Carville was Hillary Clinton’s biggest supporter.
To me it’s even more offensive to women the way the Republicans are using palin as some sort of sign that they are the progressive party.
Fuckheads.
Unlimited resources.
Unlimited resources.
When did science demonstrate THAT?
The problem is, when people like Bachmann say “science ultimately conforms to god’s truth”, it’s not an observation – it’s a demand.
Tony Sidaway #49:
This is one of the most important facts of life that the public doesn’t know. The general odds that a fertilized human egg will attach and carry to term are only about one in four. The world birth rate is about 120 million a year, or 10 million a month, so if only one in four get born, that means that 30 million a month die. Nothing done with stem cells can touch that 30 million number of natural abortions every month.
Skeptics may argue that one in four is too low, but even one in two (which is higher than any proposed data) would result in 10 million deaths a month. Why isn’t the public told this?
I just always find it quite telling (and quite amusing) that whenever those people start talking about god or reciting something that god allegedly said they get all breathless, like they are about to have an orgasm. I suppose that it’s better than the shrill screech of people like Bill Donahue, but who knows (I apologize right now for a really gross image that I’m about to put in to your skulls) what he’s like in the throes of orgasm.
No it doesn’t. You’re fucking insane.
“…fuck you. Seriously. Fuck you and your demented backwards cult of repressive magical thinking. From the bottom of my godless heart.”
My sentiments exactly. I couldn’t have expressed it better.
The Mormon Chruch is hardly a repressive cult of magical thinking, we have and have had some great people with very good minds in the religion. People in leadership positions both in the private and public sector of America,
They have very good polititans live Govenor Romney, and others,we have teachers, especially those at BYU, the state of Utah is what it is today because of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Hardly a cut.. so to use your vanacular……Fuck you.
Or how many embryos in fertility clinics have to be destroyed or sit there unused for years.
Won’t SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE SNOWFLAKES!!!!!
So where is all this unlimited oil? I’m tired of paying $4.00 for gas, getting squeezed by the Arabs, and fighting pointless wars in the middle east.
This is BTW, a common fundie belief. Oil is not a fossil fuel but a gift from god. Who will presumably refill all the oil reservoirs as soon as he finishes his TV program.
It is a glaring example of magical thinking. It wouldn’t be so bad if Bachmann was some suburban housewive but she is a representative, and seems unqualified for her job.
Hi, Lluraa. Do you have any idea how stupid your comments make you seem? Do you care?
Not sure what that word “polititans” means…I guess not these Titans…
oh, oh, “politicians”? Then your phrase is an oxymoron (look it up. No, not oxycontin. No, I’m not calling you a moron [at the moment].)
I’d let you use my vanacular, but it’s in the shop.
Say, Llamaa, or however you spell your name, you know something about Michelle Bachman? She’s an evangelical Lutheran. She thinks you and your fellow Mormons are heretics. No matter how much you hate gays and women’s rights, they still don’t think you’re one of them. Probably why Romney had such a hard time getting the GOP vote in the presidential primary. What do you have to say to that? Something about how religion and politics shouldn’t mix, perhaps?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
That’s hilarious. Magic underwear, governance by modern revelation, Jesus was in Americas, Blacks until recently not allowed to be priests, Celestial Kingdom, Terrestrial Kingdom, and Telestial Kingdom, Native Americans are the descendants of the Israelites, women having to be invited into heaven by their husbands and even in heaven have to be submissive, and that any person can become a god.
That is 100% magical thinking.
Don’t forget that your prophet was a fraud and a con man who used the location of his first revelations about the books and golden tablets to prey on an already susceptible populace.
You are one deluded person.
I had to check the liklihood of that and found this from the Backmann link PZ posted,
Now if only that was a poll Pharyngulites could crash come election day.
The Rev wrote,
Laura who can’t spell her name thinks Milt Romney is a good politician. Sorry Laura, but Milt is no a good politician. I knew George Romney, the former Michigan governor. Now there was a good politician. Milt is no George, as he can’t seem to keep his religion out of politics.
pfffHAHA
Michele Bachmann: She’s
hot!Stupid
but hot.(I had to correct that after going to the site – I forgot this is the twit who couldn’t wait to suck on Bush’s face at the SOTU.)
Not only that, but Smith had so little respect for the twits that followed him that he even named one of the Angels, MORONi. That’s like something out of a Colbert or Daily Show skit, only the tards didn’t get the joke. Ron L. kinda did the same thing and it still worked (a sucker born every minute).
I’d say Hubbard took matters just a touch further than Smith.
Nerd of Redhead, Sometimes a slip of the fingers on the keyboard causes a word to be spelt wrong. There are on this blog others who spell words wrong so I wouldn’t be as upset as you get over the few times I hit the wrong keys.
Govenor Romney is one of the finest men in government, a fine moral man who truly lives his faith. Most Mormons tend to be white, conservative Republicans and really do have a significant influence on American Politics and life.
#80: Marrying dead people to each other–that’s magical thinking.
I prefer the term “Congresscritter.”
“THE Hoipolloi”? Was Hubbard too ignorant to realize that “hoi” means “the”?
And now that I’ve ordered mine, I can let you know about the reversible squid hoodie. Every PZ minion should have one. It will help to keep the spittle off.
Llauraa wrote:
Unfortunately, Llauraa, being a Mormon also involves believing in, amongst other things, death worship and magical underwear. That someone who believes such ludicrous nonsense can have any influence on politics is profoundly disturbing.
I totally get why Ambigram brought up the totally hilarious Gorilla Goals as a comparable for Mormon theology’s weirder aspects. L. Ron Hubbard and Joseph Smith are practically interchangeable as distinctly American conmen, bretheren in their use of sorta, kinda, pseudo-thought that’s so out there that it MUST be true.
Smith saw an America traumatized by the vast numbers of family members who were heading west, most probably never to be seen again, hence his “celestial family” crap to soothe the fears of those left behind (little did he know he would soon be driven west himself). Hubbard saw atomic age anxiety and used his considerable imagination and charisma to create an inexhaustible income stream from parishoners who would never ever be rid of the body thetans that he invented as the source of all their problems. Both conmen always had some new twist, or revelation give them more power over their needy fold. Fascinating and somewhat comical except for all the pain these “creeds” have caused.
Let’s see, according to the church:
– Sex (unless married) = Sin
– Masturbation = Sin
– Homosexuality = Sin
– Out-marrying is discouraged
– Study of other religions is discouraged
I think that covers repressive.
The term “cult” seems to be subjective, with most religions finding excuses to call the other ones cults. Almost all other flavors of Christianity label Mormonism as a cult. It does fit three of the five definitions for “cult” in the Merriam-Webster dictionary, the other two don’t really apply to religions.
Magical Thinking:
– After death people go to heaven (mostly) to live with their families forever, and also become gods.
– The current God and Jesus live on a planet called Kolob where, according to some accounts, a single day is equivalent to one-thousand of our years. (This is one of those advanced topics that they wisely avoid discussing when trying to win converts.)
– The special underwear can protect you from physical harm, but _only in the places it covers_, and only if you’re following the rules.
– There are Three Nephites (similar to the Wandering Jew, but from the American Continent) who witnessed Jesus in the flesh and are doomed to walk the earth until Jesus returns.
So there we go, a repressive cult of magical thinking.
My favorite bit of the magical thinking is rather new: DNA evidence has recently totally debunked the belief that Native Americans came to the continent from Israel, an important part of the church’s doctrine. Of course any archaeological and historical evidence to the contrary has been ignored, but now there are apologists claiming that God has changed the Native Americans’ DNA in order to fool people / test our faith.
Sorry for the screed, but I had to shoot this silliness down. How did the topic of Mormonism come up anyway?
lllllluaraaaaaaa started proslytizing and leaving little poodle sized turds in the comments.
I couldn’t help read that “Most Mormons tend to be white and delightsome …” [Skeptic’s Annotated Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 30:6] (The new wording isn’t much better IMHO. Purity is for drinking water, not people.)
Poster #2, a troll called Llauraa voiced her supported for Bachmann by stating that she believes in much of what Mormons believe. Posters reacted accordingly.
I’m don’t know too much about Mormonism – despite there being both a church and a temple near where I live, and having watched all of Big Love – but the more I hear the more baffling and hilarious it sounds. Magical underwear? That’s comedy gold.
But the mistakes you made make sense when their pronunciation is considered — and none at all when the places of the keys on the keyboard is considered.
Why are you in denial about such a harmless triviality?
What else don’t you dare to admit to yourself?
Think about that.
<drool>
Would make them look like Darth Vader and the Imperial Guards.
I lived in Jackson Hole Wyoming for a good 8 or 9 years and spent many a spring climbing in Zion NP which is in bumfuck southern Utah, hotbed of the weirdest of Mormonism in action. But it isn’t confined to the red necks of the Mormon world. The beliefs that define the wierdness are standard.
Funny, I had read #2 comment but skimmed past #6. I took #2 to be an attack on Mormonism, i.e. “they believe all this crazy shit too”. While that seemed out of place given the topic it wasn’t remarkable.
It’s both remarkable and perplexing that she’d come here and start defending Mormonism, which wasn’t even being attacked. If she’s looking for converts she’ll have better luck checking the penguin exhibit at her local zoo than coming here and flailing at shadows.
:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
I think the best tutorial on Mormonism is the one done by South Park. “Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb”.
One of the most popular Scientology hymns:
L. Ron loves me,
This I know.
‘Cause my E-meter
Tells me so.
now there are apologists claiming that God has changed the Native Americans’ DNA in order to fool people/test our faith.
I’ve never understood this kind of argument. God tests faith through lies? How is that the action of a ‘good, kind and loving’ entity? These people will believe anything.
Oh. Wow. So I was researching a little more on Mormonism as I’m watching football and I found this.
Talk about being repressed.
@43 Thanks for the video on global warming.
These people don’t get it.The ultimate outcome for global warming is global cooling.Confusing yes but they can’t walk and chew gum at the same time,let alone think…oooo…that hurts.It is only those prospering from oil and those afraid of change,that are encouraging the religious to believe “oil is a gift from god and he will never let it run out.” WTF wake up
Well yeah oil got us this far in are technical evolution and change hurts sometimes but DAMN look at the alternative!
Michele’s point is quite logical. What she clearly implies is that she is a theist. Now, given that point, if she believes in God all scientific truth has to conform to devine truth. From her perspective, you cannot have a divine truth (will) and an empirical scientific truth that are in contradiction. That does not preclude her advocating for sientific advancement. For her, scientific advancement might even be a vector to divine understanding
You can rationalize it that way if you chose. But to those who worry about the recent war on good science by people like her, those are the words of someone who likes science only when it works in her favor. Politically and religiously.
In other words, fruitbat.
I guess I’m not quite done yet. Your god won’t save you if you Knowingly destroy his planet and now you know.
Plus who the fuck are you, that you think you can fuck up the earth. I live here too ya know.
So yeah I’ll say it fuck you and fuck your religion.
wow that felt good.
Christian stupidity at its finest. One has to wonder why he chose to place most of it in the hands (or under the feet) of people who don’t believe in the same god as them.
Rev. #109
I’m not trying to carry a brief for Michele. True, she has said some pretty off-center things, like “the accomplishments we’ve had in Iraq shows that God has not abandoned us”, “we don’t need Pilosi to save the planet, someone did that 2000 years ago, and “global warming is voodoo nonsence”. But, she does have some redeeming value: She said “McCain is not my guy”.
They have taken the words of a fine philosopher and corrupted them to fit their own greedy goals.
They are the master of deceit and why not, its been going on since the concept of god was created.That’s a long time.
One of the most popular Scientology hymns:[snip]
Sorry wrpd, your futile attempt at parody pales beside the unimaginable reality.
Is that because she wanted Huckabee?
Only in Idiot America politicians sound like preachers.
“Sorry for the screed, but I had to shoot this silliness down.”
Oh no, don’t be, it was quite informative. I was just shooting from the hip because Llaumaa really hit a nerve with her comments. It’s good to see all that repression and magical thinking definitively laid out.
okay, so the chick in the video is a bit scary since she has authority – but she has nothing on this: http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=964
You think she’s a worry? Or Pat Robertson? OR even Palin? Read the article and then we’ll talk scared.
Well, we are the in the century of the fruitbat.
@Rey Fox:
Nah, not ‘definitively laid out’, I just threw out a few of the fun facts.
I missed important things like:
– Ceremonies for the dead: Complete w/ a live person standing in as proxy for the deceased,
– Buck naked ritual washings and anointings (which I imagine are the least fun one can have naked),
– An unsettling love bordering on mania of multi-level marketing schemes
It’s kind of fun writing a little about this crazy shit, but there’s got to be some pharyngula regular who is infinitely more qualified to do so. I was born into the church but I wouldn’t consider myself ex-mormon, since implies being at least moderately mormon beforehand. It just didn’t resonate with me and was too easy to leave behind as I got older. Now it’s a way to one-up people at parties: “You think you’re parents taught you some crazy shit huh? I’ll show you crazy shit!” Jehovah’s Witnesses and Scientologists have my stories beat, though.
Ceremonies for the dead:
One of the quainter aspects of the LDS is their holding baptisms for dead ancestors and relatives. Combine genealogy, weird religious ideas and monomania and you get a massive repository called the Family History Library.
Does it creep you out to think that if a Mormon has determined that if some of your ancestors are related to him, then he will have had them baptised into the Mormon faith?
Comes the day that they have every record in existence entered into the database, they will be left waiting until you die to turn you into a posthumous Mormon.
Fools. The more one observes the religious, the more obvious it is that humans have near infinite capacity for self flattering self deception.
Fruitbats don’t say that much nonsense.
Ambigram @114 – this is the funniest thing ever. Leave it to Scientologists to invent funkless funk.
My ex-Mormon ex-sister-in-law told me that every Mormon has a secret magical name. Wives can never ever know their husbands’ secret name, but husbands must know their wives’ because a woman cannot enter Heaven until her husband dies and “calls her through the veil” by her secret name.
Mormon magical misogyny!
A Mormon man has to have lots of children and grandchildren… to populate the planet he gets when he becomes a god (if he follows all the rules).
Hard to pick the most unusual Mormon belief.
God is married. To lots of women. They spend a huge amount of time making spirit babies. That end up as human’s souls. One of the reasons they push large families is to provide meat robots for god’s kids. Of which, you are one.
There are 4 afterlifes. Outer darkness, terrestrial, telestial, celestial. Only a few make it into the celestial. Where you become a god with a fleet of wives and your own planet to populate and spend all your time making babies.
Not sure if I got this quite right. Then they wonder why other xians consider them heretics. Rumor has it that Romney was vetoed by Dobson and Perkins for Palin because the fundies weren’t going to accept a Mormon.