Oh, Vatican. Can you ever say something without shoving your foot in your mouth? It’s great that you revised your laws to make disciplining sex-abuser priest easier, but you couldn’t just stop at that, could you?
But what astonished many Catholics was the inclusion of the attempt to ordain women in a list of the “more grave delicts,” or offenses, which included pedophilia, as well as heresy, apostasy and schism. The issue, some critics said, was less the ordination of women, which is not discussed seriously inside the church hierarchy, but the Vatican’s suggestion that pedophilia is a comparable crime in a document billed a response to the sexual abuse crisis.
Ah, yes. Women with power – just as bad as child molesters!
Not to mention heresy and apostasy are also lumped with pedophilia. Anyone who has spoken out against Catholicism? All you former Catholics? Same level as child molesters. Congratulations.
That’s simply awful.
So…I might as well enjoy some fun-sized sex, since I’ll end up in the same level of hell anyway?Sweet.
This is exactly the sort of crap we expect from Pope Benedict Arnold. Oh, heck, it’s the sort of crap we expect from the Catholic Church in general. It’s going to take a major cataclysm to stop those ass-seeking head monkeys from doing their work.
Not only are they insulting women, but they’re hurting themselves. Catholic diocese already have a hard time finding enough priests to serve. If they would ordain women, their priest shortage problem would probably go away. But on another note, man am I glad I got out of that horrific religion.
Makes me glad I did this
I’m not sure what to make of this. On the one hand, I quite enjoy seeing the Catholics shoot themselves in the feet… but on the other hand, it shows that they aren’t learning anything.
It’s just evident of how incredibly out of touch the Catholic church is with the modern age. They can’t seem to grasp that things have moved on from biblical times, and the worst part is, as much as I rack my brains I can think of no reason why women priests would be a bad thing. (Less paedophilia, for a start…)
I am not sure, but I believe that Catholics do not have a level system for how wrong something is, it is either wrong or right, so essentially killing Jesus and rolling your eyes at your mom are also on par with molesting children. Then again God calls it an adult at the age of 13, as it is then they are ready to marry.
Jen, this is the first time I have to disagree with you. The Church is not saying that the two are equal in severity. They are not too clever anticipating bad press and should have been more astute.I am an ex-Catholic and am also really glad to have gotten out of this religion and am now a happy atheist, but I still like to call people out who misrepresent intentions.
As an X-Catlick (studying for Priesthood) I’ve been thru this same schite with contraception and condoms. I really hate it when catlick HiPPO-crites say they are going to ignore the church rules. BS!!! The church says women are to shut up and spread’m, no contraceptives, no condoms, etc. If you are a catlick then FOLLOW the RULES or get out!!OK the church rules are BS! So what? Its their rules, like it, live it, or LEAVE! and I wish a LOT of the people would leave.The same goes for the others as well…leave! grow a brain and think!Hopefully the church (insert any religion) leaders will stick to their decisions and even make worse ones. No skin off me. The more they get schite on the better!
http://www.stuff.co.nz/environ…Completely off topic, but found this (ashamed to say it’s from NZ) and thought you would appreciate the laugh.
“Not to mention heresy and apostasy are also lumped with pedophilia. Anyone who has spoken out against Catholicism? All you former Catholics? Same level as child molesters. Congratulations. “I still had make my apostasy, but thanks in advance…
The funny thing is that celibacy was in response to priests selling of or willing church properties during the Renaissance. The Roman Catholics also allow married priests from other sects, such as Episcopalians, who have converted over to remain married so why not allow their own to get married? Not sure other then the idea that if the current crop can’t get married then the new guys shouldn’t either.
i tweeted the same thought process when i heard it on the radio!
Actually celibacy was put in place well before the Renaissance (more like 1000CE). It is considered a useful practice but not a divine decree which is why married priests are recognized (eastern rite Catholics always have had married priests though not married bishops). Episcopalians/Anglicans married (male) priests are a bit oddly placed by Catholic standards. Officially the Vatican decreed back in the 19th century that Anglican ordinations were invalid because somewhere along the line the correct ritual for making bishops wasn’t followed and subsequent bishops weren’t really bishops and couldn’t make priests. Unfortunately after Vatican 1 in the 19th century the Old Catholics (with a bishop or two) split from the Catholics and went into communion with the Anglicans and their bishops (who were fully valid by Catholic standards) participated in making new Anglican bishops with the correct ritual (who would be valid) and both participated in making new priests. So Anglican priests switching to Rome (swimming the Tiber) might be priests in Catholic eyes so are conditionally ordained (just in case they aren’t) even though married (they aren’t permitted to marry if they aren’t already). A reason why they probably won’t permit married priests in the near future is they might have to pay them a wage that allows them to support a family.
In seriousness, this is actually one of my major issues with the Catholic church. During my teenage years when I was feeling suicidal like everybody else in the world does when they’re a teenager? I always figured that it I was going to kill myself I might as well kill as many other people as I could, because I’d be in hell either way.That’s the kind of thinking Catholic morality leads to. The fact that I could care so little about other people’s lives is part of what helped me realize how worthless religious morality is.
Well, look at it this way. Given their track record I expect this means we should start seeing women priests by sometime early next week… {:-)
i think the Church’s view is that apostasy, heresy, and ordaining women priests were already considered very serious offenses, so now they are putting child molestation on the same level. to show how enlightened they have become.
Unfortunately it’s not JUST the Catholic church. Look at the evangelical Christians who want to re-write our textbooks so they can marginalize evolution and claim that America was founded as a Christian nation. Or fanatical Muslims who want to kill infidels and stone adultresses. Or Jews who use bronze-age fairy tales about chosen people & covenants to justify apartheid in The West Bank, a crushing siege in Gaza and ethnic cleansing in E. Jerusalem. Unfortunately there are large swaths of the world’s population who seem not to have gotten the memo that we’re well into the 21st century.
Gee, I am now an apostate because I’ve criticized my former Church. So is, apparently, my family going back to my grandfather. Yay us. This also makes us like child molesters?This illustrates how out of touch they are, and unintentionally shows their attitude towards women in a very direct way in terms of scale.
But they are. All these things are considered equally bad in the sin list. They are equating ordaining women on the same level of pedophilia now. Tin ear aside it’s that bad.
“First its women pastors, then its gay pastors, then its transexual pastors, then its satanic pastors.” – Sharp from ChristianchatThat’s kinda the mindset some people have. Had to include the quote for the lolz, but it’s basically what a lot of people think. All because two lines from the bible said so.
So, I’m a bit confused. According to the Catholic Church, “the ordination of women is an ‘offence’ in the same category as paedophilia – deemed to be one of the ‘gravest offences a priest can commit'”. In other words… if you ordain women, they will try to hush it up as much as possible, and never really reprimand you until the Church gets sued for it 30 years later? Good news, everyone! The Vatican is taking a more liberal stance with regard to women’s rights!
Highly unlikely, have you been to Italy and the Vatican there is peace, love, and loyalty. Just look at every religion and organization, there is always a bad seed. I believe in my church, Italian churches are ancient and set in their ways and thats the way we like it.
I’m not sure I would jump to that conclusion. There are plenty of women who sexually assault children.
My goal in life is to be officially excommunicated from the church. Anybody have any ideas on how to accomplish that?
A DIRECT SIN against God is always greater than just a sin against one’s fellow man. Liturgical abuse, such as ordaining women to the priesthood is such a sin. Women priests are not the solution to ordaining abusive faggots. The solution to clerical abuse is not to ordain faggots. The Church has had problems with nuns that are just as serious as its problems with practicing homosexual priests.All ancient religions had female priests or priestesses.Only Judaism and Christianity did not. Why was that?Sexual symbolism.For CATHOLICS who have been evangelized by the world and who are unable to refute a simple attack against the Church around ordaining priestesses, I suggest you listen to Dr. Peter Kreeft: http://www.peterkreeft.com/aud…Remember, the Mother Mary is the Church’s greatest saint so the Church does not discriminate against women. There will be more females in Heaven than men, so God does not discriminate, either.The Chosen People of the Old Covenant did not establish the Jewish priesthood…it was established by the Supreme Being. All priests, God commanded, had to come from the sons of the tribe of Levi (no relation to Levi Strauss, you dummies) and NOT the other 11 tribes of Israel (Asher, Benjamin, Dan, Gad, Issachar, Joseph, Judah, Naphtali, Reuben, Simeon, and Zebulun). Did God discriminate then against the sons and daughters from the other eleven tribes? Jesus, took up the occupation of carpenter. Did Jesus then discriminate against soldiers, farmers, fishermen etc. because he did not take up their occupations while he walked the earth?Honestly… what some people come up with.
@Never Was An Arrow:”A DIRECT SIN against God is always greater than just a sin against one’s fellow man. “There is no god; there is no sin. There are only crimes, abuses, and bigotry. The Catholic Church is guilty of all three. You’re guilty of the last of those three. Please explain to me what justifies your lumping together the good, decent, kind, and trustworthy gay friends I have with abusive pederasts of the priesthood. And remember, not all gay priests abuse children.In short, they’re not all “faggots.” Try to understand the distinction, please.
You mind distilling what you are trying to say into a clear, cogent argument? You are bouncing all over the place from gay clergy, ancient religion, “sexual symbolism”, then into Mary and talking about jewish priests and something about Jesus? Also the official reason there are no women priests is because, according to the Bible, women are not allowed to rule on matters of authority or hold authority over men. That is pretty damn discriminatory. Reading the Old Testament, that God discriminated against anyone not Jewish by demanding they die. He also would strike down his own people on a whim based on all sorts of transgressions he dreamed up. Then there is the idea that only one group of people are allowed the power positions basically. So yes he was pretty damn discriminatory.
lomifeh… “You mind distilling what you are trying to say into a clear, cogent argument?”Some of what I have written is redacted Peter Kreeft.A fuller treatment is HERE: http://www.peterkreeft.com/aud……A man writes a book and signifies meaning through his words only. That is the limitation of man. God is the author of Holy Writ, and of the material universe. He conveys His meaning to us not through words only, as any man can do…but through things, themselves.So everything in nature means something. Created institutions by the very way they are constructed, and execute their duties also mean something. Are meant to tell us something.God writes history (salvation history) and nature… as a man writes words.So if everything in nature means something. Then the really big things in nature mean something really big. And sex is a big thing.Anyways, follow up with Peter Kreeft and you’ll see another worldview that opposes the secular humanist one you’ve been indoctrinated in, throughout your entire life. “Also the official reason there are no women priests is because, according to the Bible, women are not allowed to rule on matters of authority or hold authority over men. That is pretty damn discriminatory.”In some aspects of the faith, we ALL have different roles. I cannot celebrate the Mass. I am a Catholic, but NOT an ordained priest.”Reading the Old Testament, that God discriminated against anyone not Jewish by demanding they die. He also would strike down his own people …”The Messianic line had to be kept religiously pure. Jews who lived in close quarters to God in the beginning were given distinct instruction on how to live their lives. Fools have always taken proximity to God, lightly. Kind of like modern culture that tends to view God as a detached grandfatherly type with a white beard who looks in on mankind from time to time.God is a consuming fire, and He owes no one mercy, or tolerance.Cycle Ninja…there is God. In fact, He is the only thing that is real. And sins are offences to God. And the Catholic Church may be guilty of falling short, at times. And they have humbly owned up to this sobering fact…as an institution.So when will you, as an individual, own up to those times you have fallen short? Especially when you had judged the entire Catholic Church and all her members through the kaleidoscope of your own projected bigotry?I made a distinction when I mentioned practicing homosexuals.
A few points:–“(God) is the only thing that is real.” And Brutus was an honorable man. Just saying it doesn’t make it true.–“…humbly owned up to this sobering fact as an institution.” After decades of denying any knowledge, then denying any wrongdoing or cover-up, then refusing to pay out to the victims, then blaming it all on “teh gayz,” and finally issuing a statement that has all the credibility of a BP press release. I’ll believe them to be sincere when I see substantive reforms on how they treat women and gays and not a moment before.–“So when will you, as an individual, own up to those times you have fallen short?” I’m not the one under scrutiny, the Catholic Church is. And you’re the one rushing to its defense on matters that are indefensible.–“I made a distinction when I mentioned practicing homosexuals.” Homosexuality isn’t the problem…child-fucking is the problem, and the Catholic priesthood has been a safe haven for predators for too long. There are no excuses, there is nothing there that is anything like the decent people I know who happen to be gay. And for the record, I’m a former Catholic who finally wised up and left, and am immeasurably happier without all the conflicted emotions and self-loathing with which Catholic dogma contaminated me. It’s completely illogical, inhuman, and lacking in compassion. It amazes me anyone could believe it. And if they’d never harmed anyone in preaching it, I’d have just shaken my head and gone on with my life. It’s the harm done to real people–both the official dogma as well as the child rape that is more institutional than dogmatic–that makes me detest and lash out. And I and all others who feel the same way are completely justified in our position.
“I’m not the one under scrutiny, the Catholic Church is.”You are immediately under scrutiny as soon as you scrutinize others. The Catholic Church is not a building . It’s the body of Christ comprised of millions of members.”the Catholic priesthood has been a safe haven for predators for too long.”That’s because idiots from the science of psychology told the Church that “problem priests” could be psychoanalyzed into a cure. Or moved around to nullify their perp behaviour. It is NOW well known these officers of medical science were. And how deep seated those dark ped. impulses are, and remain.”Homosexuality isn’t the problem…child-fucking is the problem”… “and the child rape that is more institutional …”These last statements are simply maniacal. The perps were predominantly homosexual. They were not attracted to little girls. They developed their own little’ Man-Boy Love Associations fostered on by the equally maniacal sexual revolution mindset that infected society right after the sixties. These homo perps were quite adept at luring children and having their way with them. And then keeping it covered up for years afterward. My family and I were members of many different parishes. If child rape was so institutional… I’m sure I’d have personally come across it through the years. Even found a hint. Nope!The Church is also a victim. Bet, you never considered that! Listening to junk science yahoos instead of blunt common sense to manage these perps. These perps should have been jailed, and been subject to harsh canon law as they were in the past… But no… disciples of Freud promised a cure! So, these subhuman perps and the new Freudian evangelists did their damage… and now the Church has to pick up the pieces! Gee, that sounds fair to me!