In the interests of intellectual honesty, the title above should really read, “What’s so good about people?”
That seems awfully cynical, but political and spiritual dogma are not forces of their own, but entities reflective of the way people generally are; intolerant, conservative, quick to anger, quick to judge, and quick to assume authority over others. People tend to have just enough self-awareness to see that this behaviour is abhorrent as to consequently create ever more arbitrary belief frameworks to justify them. Religion is an excuse not a causative agent in its own right.
For example, you can’t blame religion for the fact that a large proportion of drivers in any country are completely resistant to the idea of being courteous to their fellows on the road.
We could blast every religious zealot into space tomorrow, and two days from now small groups of us will already be murdering each other under the cosmetic glaze of some other arbitrary ideology. I’m not writing from a holier-than-thou position either; we’re all human.
I’ll probably be running with the group lynching people for the inappropriate use of the turn signal.
Pat Condell is one of those British nincompoops pandering increasingly to an American Islamophobic public, in this case atheists. This should come as no surprise, as British and European militant atheism barely exists (there is no real need for it in our context) and there’s little appetite here for Condell’s idiotic musings.
I’ve caught Pat out on seriously factual errors so many times that I find it impossible to take him remotely serious. He’s essentially a know-nothing jingoistic nobody, who happens to be the flavour of the month with those who love strong language.
He should not have a platform here at Paryngula.
A British atheist/agnostic.
Steve_Csays
We’re religiophobic!
Get it straight.
tsigsays
Of course religion is a good thing! Without a strict set of morals imposed by god we might see christians doing drugs, having sex with young boys or engaging in all forms of kinky sex; rubber suits and vasoline anyone?
Betty Boondogglesays
“We’re religiophobic!”
Seriously, if you’re going to wax arrogantly about how much better you are than everyone else, at least be aware of whom your talking too.
tsigsays
Gert says:
“Pat Condell is one of those British nincompoops pandering increasingly to an American Islamophobic public, in this case atheists. This should come as no surprise, as British and European militant atheism barely exists (there is no real need for it in our context) and there’s little appetite here for Condell’s idiotic musings.”
I thought he slammed them all hard.
Why did you just pick out this statement?
I think someone’s ox just got gored.
BTW When someone tells me they want to kill me and demonstrates that the can and will kill, it is not a phobia but a fact.
“BTW When someone tells me they want to kill me and demonstrates that the can and will kill, it is not a phobia but a fact.”
Who’s telling you that? All Muslims? Thought not. You’re only proving my point. A considerable slice of the American public is deeply Islamophobic, as well as Arabophobic. Sadly, supposedly rational atheists gladly jump on the bandwagon too. If it was up to many here, atheism would become a religion, no question about that.
Comment #6 (DS) was spot on.
Betty Boondogglesays
“supposedly rational atheists gladly jump on the bandwagon too.”
Does someone want to explain to Gert that the vid is about all desert religions? Apparently, in Gert’s rush to slam all atheists (while simultaneously saying it’s bad for anyone to do the same to Muslims – because arrogance is nothing without blatant hypocrisy) ) Gert’s having trouble with the fact.
Dahansays
“If it was up to many here, atheism would become a religion, no question about that.”
Gert, yer not from around here are ya pardner? If you’d spent any time at all on this blog you wouldn’t bother to bring up the “atheism as religion” thing. You show extreme ignorance by saying something like that. You’re not worth bothering with beyond saying that.
“Does someone want to explain to Gert that the vid is about all desert religions?”
“someone” doesn’t have to do that: I clearly indicated I was referring to Pat Condell’s “work” in general, of which this vid is not the worst by a long shot.
Condell has often shown poor understanding of the UK and European left, has completely misrepresented certain European demonstrations, displays clear Europhobia (anti-EU – a very British trait, I assure you) and racist tendencies.
Condell could do a lot better if he actually researched his subject a little. Clearly with such a dedicated following here in the US, he doesn’t need to. That’s lazy.
And Condell may slam all three desert religions here but like with Harris, Islam is reserved a special front seat.
Face it lads, Islamophobia is bon ton in the US and sells products.
@20 “Face it lads, Islamophobia is bon ton in the US and sells products.”
Really? Products? Which?
tsigsays
“Who’s telling you that? All Muslims? Thought not. You’re only proving my point. A considerable slice of the American public is deeply Islamophobic, as well as Arabophobic. Sadly, supposedly rational atheists gladly jump on the bandwagon too. If it was up to many here, atheism would become a religion, no question about that.”
The Quran, the Hadiths, muslim web sites and speeches by muslim leaders all tell me that.
Just who tells you different. Your Ayatollah.
Chris R.says
I wonder if Gert is just trolling to get some hits to his Blogspot blog ;) Is one of the ways to “develop web presence” going on to a blog more popular than yours and insulting everyone on it?
Cory Albrechtsays
Why is it that when atheists talk about religion, the only mention the bad things like the crusades and such, and never the good things?
Take, for example, Habitat for Humanity. This is an ecumenical Christian organization dedicated to building affordable housing. People donate money, building materials and time to help provide economical, decent houses for those who would otherwise be unable to afford their own home.
Or how about Ten Thousand Villages?? This non-profit organization buys the products of Third World craftspeople at decent price and sells them in North America. The idea is to give the produces a chance to earn a decent living for themselves and their family without having to rely handouts, and this is in stark contrast to sweat shops often set up by Western World corporations.
The basic reason why all those above organizations were formed is the tenet “Love your neighbour as yourself”, which we are told by Jesus is the second greatest commandment. Why is it that when ever I hold this radical idea up as a counter to atheist claims tat religion is all bad, almost all I get in response is crickets chirping. At best I get the typical evasive, non-replies one gets from creationists when you show them the flaws & misconceptions in their strawman anti-evolution arguments.
Why is it that atheists always seem so deaf to the ideas of the parable of the Good Samaritan?
dieselrainsays
Remember that wonderful Christian, Jim Jones, and his followers in South America, about 1980? He was such a swell guy, leading more than 900 followers to drink poisoned Koolaid. He was from Indiana, a wonderful God-fearing state.
Alverantsays
#24 “Why is it that when atheists talk about religion, the only mention the bad things like the crusades and such, and never the good things?”
Could be for the same reason when religious folks talk about Atheists, they only mention the bad things like Nazis (even though the vast majority of Nazis were Catholic) and ignore the good things they do.
darwinfinchsays
Dear Cory A.,
You seem to be pulling what you seem to take to be a real, unanswerable “fast one” with that rhetorical question nailed up at the end. Fast as molasses on a glcier, really, but you do seem sweetly proud of your cleverness and bravery.
I can answer you, though I doubt I can be heard over that veritable plague of crickets you seem to have chirping in your brain: the fact that good people do things according to their reading of their favorite stories does not in any way make those stories true.
Why is it necessary to accept the truckloads of absurdity and dishonesty of Christianity, or Islam, or D&D, to decide to apply oneself to altruistic causes? (Oooh! Dirty pool, there!)
Religion as a creative process, like a play, is fine. But it is still a temporary fiction that should be left behind once the curtain drops on the matinee.
“I wonder if Gert is just trolling to get some hits to his Blogspot blog ;) Is one of the ways to “develop web presence” going on to a blog more popular than yours and insulting everyone on it?
Chris R.”
You sound of the intellectual level of an average Creationist. Funny that such a high quality blog should attract the brain-dead too… Guess it’s okay for you guys to insult anybody you see fit, huh?
“Really? Products? Which?
misterbowen”
Yeah, lemmesee. Erm, endless reams of books, vids, TV shows, televised “debates”, to name but a few.
It’s only a question of time before that “swell guy”, Pat Condell, starts Ka-Shing-in on his new-found fame in US atheist circles (that’s if he hasn’t already…)
David Marjanović, OMsays
Why is it that when atheists talk about religion, the only mention the bad things like the crusades and such, and never the good things?
The idea is that…
“Good people do good things; evil people do evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”
(Sure, other ideologies do that job just as well — the more similar to religion they are, the more easily.)
Apart from this, most of the posters here live in parts of the USA where they are surrounded by “God hates fags” and “God hates everyone” types.
which we are told by Jesus is the second greatest commandment.
Not quite. We are told it’s not the first and most important — but then we are told it is equal to the first and most important one. :-}
Furthermore, most of us here agree it is great. We just don’t need religion to appreciate it. Again, good people do good things…
David Marjanović, OMsays
Why is it that when atheists talk about religion, the only mention the bad things like the crusades and such, and never the good things?
The idea is that…
“Good people do good things; evil people do evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”
(Sure, other ideologies do that job just as well — the more similar to religion they are, the more easily.)
Apart from this, most of the posters here live in parts of the USA where they are surrounded by “God hates fags” and “God hates everyone” types.
which we are told by Jesus is the second greatest commandment.
Not quite. We are told it’s not the first and most important — but then we are told it is equal to the first and most important one. :-}
Furthermore, most of us here agree it is great. We just don’t need religion to appreciate it. Again, good people do good things…
Rey Foxsays
Boy, it’s a real tightrope act, mentioning Islam on this blog. If you’re too critical, you’re accused of being “Islamophobic”*, if you’re not critical enough, they call you a feminist. What is an atheist to do?
We’re just going to have to instate a rigid quota system by which exactly equal portions of scorn and dismissal are rationed out to every belief system out there. I think Brownian should be up to the task of enforcing it.
That being said, I’ll have to take up some slack here. Hey, all you First Nations people! Dancing around and shaking your rattles and stuff! Buncha dumbasses!
* By the by, I am afraid of a rigid belief system that justifies the murder of unbelievers and whoever happens to be in the way of those unbelievers. Not irrationally afraid, but not particularly tolerant of its existence.
Alverantsays
darwinfinch, what sort of “truckloads of absurdity and dishonesty” does D&D expect people to believe? D&D is up front in saying it’s make believe unlike religion which commands you to believe it or else. Comparing D&D to religions is like comparing Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles to biology class.
Alverantsays
I haven’t seen all his podcasts so I can’t comment about his accuracy. But in the spirit of saying something nice about religion, I’ll try it too.
Islam: Turkish food. The 1001 Arabian Knights stories. Algebra. Their religious symbol, crescent moon and star, doesn’t invoke the image of a bastard offspring of god and pre-teen being brutally murdered.
Radical Islam (or any religion): Easy target for humor. We should all show respect for the “straight man” in any comedy routine.
Christianity: It’s not Islam. That’s really the only nice thing I can think of at this point. Wait, there’s the intricate gothic architecture and Dante’s Divine Comedy.
Judisam: I give them props for persistence. Centuries of attacks and persecution, and they press on. Plus they’re not big on pushing their faith on others and there is a spot for Atheists (or at least a greater willingness to accept Atheists). Also kosher beef franks.
Hinduism: A richness of folklore and gods. Curry and other ways to make vegitarism at least a little more stomachable. The lack of holy wars when compared to the desert dogmas.
Buddism: Very open to other beliefs. Like Hinduism, there’s a lack of holy wars compared to the western religions. And since I’m overweight myself I like the idea of an overweight religious icon. I’d rather have a well developed mind than a well developed body.
Wiccan: No wars, no pressure to convert others, no condemning others for not being Wiccan, no anthropomorphic deity with an unhealthy interest in our sex lives, a more abstract cosmology that doesn’t make mankind the focus of the universe. It’s a very respectable religion when compared to the desert dogmas.
Great video. I can think of another positive thing about Judeaism. Their heaven is beautiful, all the angels have different colored wings.
bernardasays
Cory lists what he thinks are some good xian charities. However, they could do the same work without labeling themselves xians or not even being xians. At least one is not even considered xian by Ministry Watch.
“CCF, by its own admission, is “non-sectarian” and does not adhere to an Evangelical Statement of Faith or Doc-
trinal Statement.
•
While CCF was founded by a minister in 1938 and continues to do good work on the behalf of impoverished chil-
dren, they are not an organization that attempts to bring the Gospel message along with the relief they offer to
needy children.
•
CCF, has in the past, argued it is not Christian so that it could avoid placement in the MinistryWatch.com data-
base. More recently, it has argued that it is indeed a Christian organization because of the good works they do for
children.
•
CCF is not a member of the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability. In explaining why, CCF has ex-
plained, …”we are not an evangelical organization in that we do not teach religion as part of our program activity
and we do not try to convert program beneficiaries as part of our program efforts.”” etc.
Gert is all over the ballpark. What does supposed “europhobia” have to do with Pat’s criticism of religions? In any event, there are two definitions of “phobia”:
1. A persistent, abnormal, and irrational fear of a specific thing or situation that compels one to avoid it, despite the awareness and reassurance that it is not dangerous.
2. A strong fear, dislike, or aversion.”
Taking the second, yes, I am islamophobic, and that includes the so-called “moderates”. In this sense, any rational person would be too, and also christophobic and judeophobic and hinduphobic etc. Anything that has to do with promoting superstition.
RamblinDudesays
“Why is it that when atheists talk about religion, the only mention the bad things like the crusades and such, and never the good things?”
It was the religious crowd that started this little test of wills. The atheists are only reacting to them out of necessity. Christians like Pat Robertson, Hagee, and their ilk have huge followings, and they are spearheading a movement to destroy science, take over the country and blow up the world in a glorious Armageddon. And we’re supposed to spend our time discussing the inoffensive nature of their nonprofit organizations?
We’re not deaf to the parable of the Good Samaritan; we’re distracted by the fact that he’s armed and dangerous–and wants something in return.
When he got around to mentioning the positive stuff about Judaism, I instinctively said: “The food!” I don’t keep kosher (never have, actually), but I can’t bear the thought of giving up the fairly frequent trips to Grandma’s house for meals that leave one full for a week. (And my grandmother’s not very religious either.)
Even though we sorta gave up on proper “Seder” dinners a few years ago, and have transformed Hanukah into “Family Reunion,” that’s the one part of the culture I’m not giving up! *munch* *munch* *munch*
MichelleRsays
Pat, will you marry me? ;-)
Cory Albrechtsays
Darwinfinch says “I can answer you, though I doubt I can be heard over that veritable plague of crickets you seem to have chirping in your brain: the fact that good people do things according to their reading of their favorite stories does not in any way make those stories true.”
I think s/he totally missed the point I was trying make.I was not talking about trueness of religious beliefs, but about visible, real world actions of people. And no, I am not trying to be clever or brave or proud. I asked a simple question. One, I note, that darwinfinch did not answer.
The fact is that the organizations I mentioned do good things, and they were started and people participate in them for faith-based reasons and that directly contracts Dr Myers’s and Mr. Condell’s claim that nothing good comes out of religion.
Bernarda, I think,also misses the point by saying “However, they could do the same work without labeling themselves xians or not even being xians.” That is completely true and there are many charities that do not come from religious backgrounds. But the fact that CCF doesn’t have a doctrinal statement is irrelevant, and since when does a Christian organization have to do religious education just because it is Christian? At best, this seems to me like argument by evasion.
Alverant seems to be the only person who got my point, and is quite right about it. “Religionists” do do the same thing to atheists and they get called on it (and rightly so) by the atheists and sometimes even by other religionists. I try a my best to call either side on this tactic when I see it, though I won’t claim to have a balanced score. I would submit to Alverant that while this is a reason, it smacks of “well, they did it first” that a child would use and is not a justification.
As for RamblinDude, if the person’s armed and dangerous, then he’s not a good samaritan. The G.S. doesn’t ask for something in return. :-)
Yay Pat Condell!
I will be forwarding this on to many, many people….
Pat Condell’s great, I’ve been subscribed to him on Youtube for quite a while now.
I like what he’s saying but he looks way too much like my father (who doesn’t have that accent) so watching that is a bit disconcerting!
Wow. That perked me right up. What is about the pitch perfect smackdown of religion that makes me smile so big?
In the interests of intellectual honesty, the title above should really read, “What’s so good about people?”
That seems awfully cynical, but political and spiritual dogma are not forces of their own, but entities reflective of the way people generally are; intolerant, conservative, quick to anger, quick to judge, and quick to assume authority over others. People tend to have just enough self-awareness to see that this behaviour is abhorrent as to consequently create ever more arbitrary belief frameworks to justify them. Religion is an excuse not a causative agent in its own right.
For example, you can’t blame religion for the fact that a large proportion of drivers in any country are completely resistant to the idea of being courteous to their fellows on the road.
We could blast every religious zealot into space tomorrow, and two days from now small groups of us will already be murdering each other under the cosmetic glaze of some other arbitrary ideology. I’m not writing from a holier-than-thou position either; we’re all human.
I’ll probably be running with the group lynching people for the inappropriate use of the turn signal.
Pat Condell is one of those British nincompoops pandering increasingly to an American Islamophobic public, in this case atheists. This should come as no surprise, as British and European militant atheism barely exists (there is no real need for it in our context) and there’s little appetite here for Condell’s idiotic musings.
I’ve caught Pat out on seriously factual errors so many times that I find it impossible to take him remotely serious. He’s essentially a know-nothing jingoistic nobody, who happens to be the flavour of the month with those who love strong language.
He should not have a platform here at Paryngula.
A British atheist/agnostic.
We’re religiophobic!
Get it straight.
Of course religion is a good thing! Without a strict set of morals imposed by god we might see christians doing drugs, having sex with young boys or engaging in all forms of kinky sex; rubber suits and vasoline anyone?
“We’re religiophobic!”
Seriously, if you’re going to wax arrogantly about how much better you are than everyone else, at least be aware of whom your talking too.
Gert says:
“Pat Condell is one of those British nincompoops pandering increasingly to an American Islamophobic public, in this case atheists. This should come as no surprise, as British and European militant atheism barely exists (there is no real need for it in our context) and there’s little appetite here for Condell’s idiotic musings.”
I thought he slammed them all hard.
Why did you just pick out this statement?
I think someone’s ox just got gored.
BTW When someone tells me they want to kill me and demonstrates that the can and will kill, it is not a phobia but a fact.
“We’re religiophobic!”
Very rational indeed… Glad you got that “straight”!
A phobia, generally debilitating in it’s effect, is any irrational or misplaced fear, an extreme overreaction to actual situations, objects or places.
Throwing around terms such as islamophobic, and then diagnosing “the public” is fatuous.
“Throwing around terms such as islamophobic, and then diagnosing “the public” is fatuous.”
Did you mean flatulent?
Gert. Thanks for your “concern”.
I would forward it to people, but I don’t really know any.
tsig (#11):
“BTW When someone tells me they want to kill me and demonstrates that the can and will kill, it is not a phobia but a fact.”
Who’s telling you that? All Muslims? Thought not. You’re only proving my point. A considerable slice of the American public is deeply Islamophobic, as well as Arabophobic. Sadly, supposedly rational atheists gladly jump on the bandwagon too. If it was up to many here, atheism would become a religion, no question about that.
Comment #6 (DS) was spot on.
“supposedly rational atheists gladly jump on the bandwagon too.”
Does someone want to explain to Gert that the vid is about all desert religions? Apparently, in Gert’s rush to slam all atheists (while simultaneously saying it’s bad for anyone to do the same to Muslims – because arrogance is nothing without blatant hypocrisy) ) Gert’s having trouble with the fact.
“If it was up to many here, atheism would become a religion, no question about that.”
Gert, yer not from around here are ya pardner? If you’d spent any time at all on this blog you wouldn’t bother to bring up the “atheism as religion” thing. You show extreme ignorance by saying something like that. You’re not worth bothering with beyond saying that.
“Does someone want to explain to Gert that the vid is about all desert religions?”
“someone” doesn’t have to do that: I clearly indicated I was referring to Pat Condell’s “work” in general, of which this vid is not the worst by a long shot.
Condell has often shown poor understanding of the UK and European left, has completely misrepresented certain European demonstrations, displays clear Europhobia (anti-EU – a very British trait, I assure you) and racist tendencies.
Condell could do a lot better if he actually researched his subject a little. Clearly with such a dedicated following here in the US, he doesn’t need to. That’s lazy.
And Condell may slam all three desert religions here but like with Harris, Islam is reserved a special front seat.
Face it lads, Islamophobia is bon ton in the US and sells products.
@20 “Face it lads, Islamophobia is bon ton in the US and sells products.”
Really? Products? Which?
“Who’s telling you that? All Muslims? Thought not. You’re only proving my point. A considerable slice of the American public is deeply Islamophobic, as well as Arabophobic. Sadly, supposedly rational atheists gladly jump on the bandwagon too. If it was up to many here, atheism would become a religion, no question about that.”
The Quran, the Hadiths, muslim web sites and speeches by muslim leaders all tell me that.
Just who tells you different. Your Ayatollah.
I wonder if Gert is just trolling to get some hits to his Blogspot blog ;) Is one of the ways to “develop web presence” going on to a blog more popular than yours and insulting everyone on it?
Why is it that when atheists talk about religion, the only mention the bad things like the crusades and such, and never the good things?
Take, for example, Habitat for Humanity. This is an ecumenical Christian organization dedicated to building affordable housing. People donate money, building materials and time to help provide economical, decent houses for those who would otherwise be unable to afford their own home.
Or how about Ten Thousand Villages?? This non-profit organization buys the products of Third World craftspeople at decent price and sells them in North America. The idea is to give the produces a chance to earn a decent living for themselves and their family without having to rely handouts, and this is in stark contrast to sweat shops often set up by Western World corporations.
Organizations like Christian Peacemaker Teams, Christian Childrens Fund, Mennonite Central Committee, Mennonite Coalition for Refugee Support any many others somehow never (or very rarely) seem to get mentioned whenever atheists talk about religion.
The basic reason why all those above organizations were formed is the tenet “Love your neighbour as yourself”, which we are told by Jesus is the second greatest commandment. Why is it that when ever I hold this radical idea up as a counter to atheist claims tat religion is all bad, almost all I get in response is crickets chirping. At best I get the typical evasive, non-replies one gets from creationists when you show them the flaws & misconceptions in their strawman anti-evolution arguments.
Why is it that atheists always seem so deaf to the ideas of the parable of the Good Samaritan?
Remember that wonderful Christian, Jim Jones, and his followers in South America, about 1980? He was such a swell guy, leading more than 900 followers to drink poisoned Koolaid. He was from Indiana, a wonderful God-fearing state.
#24 “Why is it that when atheists talk about religion, the only mention the bad things like the crusades and such, and never the good things?”
Could be for the same reason when religious folks talk about Atheists, they only mention the bad things like Nazis (even though the vast majority of Nazis were Catholic) and ignore the good things they do.
Dear Cory A.,
You seem to be pulling what you seem to take to be a real, unanswerable “fast one” with that rhetorical question nailed up at the end. Fast as molasses on a glcier, really, but you do seem sweetly proud of your cleverness and bravery.
I can answer you, though I doubt I can be heard over that veritable plague of crickets you seem to have chirping in your brain: the fact that good people do things according to their reading of their favorite stories does not in any way make those stories true.
Why is it necessary to accept the truckloads of absurdity and dishonesty of Christianity, or Islam, or D&D, to decide to apply oneself to altruistic causes? (Oooh! Dirty pool, there!)
Religion as a creative process, like a play, is fine. But it is still a temporary fiction that should be left behind once the curtain drops on the matinee.
Okay, I’m out of here.
“I wonder if Gert is just trolling to get some hits to his Blogspot blog ;) Is one of the ways to “develop web presence” going on to a blog more popular than yours and insulting everyone on it?
Chris R.”
You sound of the intellectual level of an average Creationist. Funny that such a high quality blog should attract the brain-dead too… Guess it’s okay for you guys to insult anybody you see fit, huh?
“Really? Products? Which?
misterbowen”
Yeah, lemmesee. Erm, endless reams of books, vids, TV shows, televised “debates”, to name but a few.
It’s only a question of time before that “swell guy”, Pat Condell, starts Ka-Shing-in on his new-found fame in US atheist circles (that’s if he hasn’t already…)
The idea is that…
“Good people do good things; evil people do evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”
(Sure, other ideologies do that job just as well — the more similar to religion they are, the more easily.)
Apart from this, most of the posters here live in parts of the USA where they are surrounded by “God hates fags” and “God hates everyone” types.
Not quite. We are told it’s not the first and most important — but then we are told it is equal to the first and most important one. :-}
Furthermore, most of us here agree it is great. We just don’t need religion to appreciate it. Again, good people do good things…
The idea is that…
“Good people do good things; evil people do evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”
(Sure, other ideologies do that job just as well — the more similar to religion they are, the more easily.)
Apart from this, most of the posters here live in parts of the USA where they are surrounded by “God hates fags” and “God hates everyone” types.
Not quite. We are told it’s not the first and most important — but then we are told it is equal to the first and most important one. :-}
Furthermore, most of us here agree it is great. We just don’t need religion to appreciate it. Again, good people do good things…
Boy, it’s a real tightrope act, mentioning Islam on this blog. If you’re too critical, you’re accused of being “Islamophobic”*, if you’re not critical enough, they call you a feminist. What is an atheist to do?
We’re just going to have to instate a rigid quota system by which exactly equal portions of scorn and dismissal are rationed out to every belief system out there. I think Brownian should be up to the task of enforcing it.
That being said, I’ll have to take up some slack here. Hey, all you First Nations people! Dancing around and shaking your rattles and stuff! Buncha dumbasses!
* By the by, I am afraid of a rigid belief system that justifies the murder of unbelievers and whoever happens to be in the way of those unbelievers. Not irrationally afraid, but not particularly tolerant of its existence.
darwinfinch, what sort of “truckloads of absurdity and dishonesty” does D&D expect people to believe? D&D is up front in saying it’s make believe unlike religion which commands you to believe it or else. Comparing D&D to religions is like comparing Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles to biology class.
I haven’t seen all his podcasts so I can’t comment about his accuracy. But in the spirit of saying something nice about religion, I’ll try it too.
Islam: Turkish food. The 1001 Arabian Knights stories. Algebra. Their religious symbol, crescent moon and star, doesn’t invoke the image of a bastard offspring of god and pre-teen being brutally murdered.
Radical Islam (or any religion): Easy target for humor. We should all show respect for the “straight man” in any comedy routine.
Christianity: It’s not Islam. That’s really the only nice thing I can think of at this point. Wait, there’s the intricate gothic architecture and Dante’s Divine Comedy.
Judisam: I give them props for persistence. Centuries of attacks and persecution, and they press on. Plus they’re not big on pushing their faith on others and there is a spot for Atheists (or at least a greater willingness to accept Atheists). Also kosher beef franks.
Hinduism: A richness of folklore and gods. Curry and other ways to make vegitarism at least a little more stomachable. The lack of holy wars when compared to the desert dogmas.
Buddism: Very open to other beliefs. Like Hinduism, there’s a lack of holy wars compared to the western religions. And since I’m overweight myself I like the idea of an overweight religious icon. I’d rather have a well developed mind than a well developed body.
Wiccan: No wars, no pressure to convert others, no condemning others for not being Wiccan, no anthropomorphic deity with an unhealthy interest in our sex lives, a more abstract cosmology that doesn’t make mankind the focus of the universe. It’s a very respectable religion when compared to the desert dogmas.
Great video. I can think of another positive thing about Judeaism. Their heaven is beautiful, all the angels have different colored wings.
Cory lists what he thinks are some good xian charities. However, they could do the same work without labeling themselves xians or not even being xians. At least one is not even considered xian by Ministry Watch.
“CCF, by its own admission, is “non-sectarian” and does not adhere to an Evangelical Statement of Faith or Doc-
trinal Statement.
•
While CCF was founded by a minister in 1938 and continues to do good work on the behalf of impoverished chil-
dren, they are not an organization that attempts to bring the Gospel message along with the relief they offer to
needy children.
•
CCF, has in the past, argued it is not Christian so that it could avoid placement in the MinistryWatch.com data-
base. More recently, it has argued that it is indeed a Christian organization because of the good works they do for
children.
•
CCF is not a member of the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability. In explaining why, CCF has ex-
plained, …”we are not an evangelical organization in that we do not teach religion as part of our program activity
and we do not try to convert program beneficiaries as part of our program efforts.”” etc.
Gert is all over the ballpark. What does supposed “europhobia” have to do with Pat’s criticism of religions? In any event, there are two definitions of “phobia”:
1. A persistent, abnormal, and irrational fear of a specific thing or situation that compels one to avoid it, despite the awareness and reassurance that it is not dangerous.
2. A strong fear, dislike, or aversion.”
Taking the second, yes, I am islamophobic, and that includes the so-called “moderates”. In this sense, any rational person would be too, and also christophobic and judeophobic and hinduphobic etc. Anything that has to do with promoting superstition.
“Why is it that when atheists talk about religion, the only mention the bad things like the crusades and such, and never the good things?”
It was the religious crowd that started this little test of wills. The atheists are only reacting to them out of necessity. Christians like Pat Robertson, Hagee, and their ilk have huge followings, and they are spearheading a movement to destroy science, take over the country and blow up the world in a glorious Armageddon. And we’re supposed to spend our time discussing the inoffensive nature of their nonprofit organizations?
We’re not deaf to the parable of the Good Samaritan; we’re distracted by the fact that he’s armed and dangerous–and wants something in return.
When he got around to mentioning the positive stuff about Judaism, I instinctively said: “The food!” I don’t keep kosher (never have, actually), but I can’t bear the thought of giving up the fairly frequent trips to Grandma’s house for meals that leave one full for a week. (And my grandmother’s not very religious either.)
Even though we sorta gave up on proper “Seder” dinners a few years ago, and have transformed Hanukah into “Family Reunion,” that’s the one part of the culture I’m not giving up! *munch* *munch* *munch*
Pat, will you marry me? ;-)
Darwinfinch says “I can answer you, though I doubt I can be heard over that veritable plague of crickets you seem to have chirping in your brain: the fact that good people do things according to their reading of their favorite stories does not in any way make those stories true.”
I think s/he totally missed the point I was trying make.I was not talking about trueness of religious beliefs, but about visible, real world actions of people. And no, I am not trying to be clever or brave or proud. I asked a simple question. One, I note, that darwinfinch did not answer.
The fact is that the organizations I mentioned do good things, and they were started and people participate in them for faith-based reasons and that directly contracts Dr Myers’s and Mr. Condell’s claim that nothing good comes out of religion.
Bernarda, I think,also misses the point by saying “However, they could do the same work without labeling themselves xians or not even being xians.” That is completely true and there are many charities that do not come from religious backgrounds. But the fact that CCF doesn’t have a doctrinal statement is irrelevant, and since when does a Christian organization have to do religious education just because it is Christian? At best, this seems to me like argument by evasion.
Alverant seems to be the only person who got my point, and is quite right about it. “Religionists” do do the same thing to atheists and they get called on it (and rightly so) by the atheists and sometimes even by other religionists. I try a my best to call either side on this tactic when I see it, though I won’t claim to have a balanced score. I would submit to Alverant that while this is a reason, it smacks of “well, they did it first” that a child would use and is not a justification.
As for RamblinDude, if the person’s armed and dangerous, then he’s not a good samaritan. The G.S. doesn’t ask for something in return. :-)