Twitter skirmish

I got into a brief exchange with a crazy Irish Catholic yesterday, and it actually got reported on broadsheet.ie, which was odd — and also unsatisfying, since they only reported the first half of the discussion. Just for the sense of completion, I append here the last few comments before he turned up his nose and refused to discuss it further.

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There. That’s better.

Atheism ≠ fascism

Jeff Sparrow is very worried about the Global Atheist Convention coming to Melbourne, Australia next April. Why? Because we’re all goose-stepping fascists come to destroy liberal and progressive dreams with our “very, very right wing” atheistical fanaticism. Which leaves me baffled and confused. Don’t I count? I’m a guy who finds Barack Obama to be far too conservative (I know, that’s setting the bar low), surrounded by wanna-be theocrats in a land straining to escape the Enlightenment, with the giant heads of O’Reilly, Beck, and Hannity howling at me from the television, and somehow, I am the problem?

Sparrow doesn’t mention me at all, of course, but that’s the thing: I consider myself comfortable and not at all an oddball in the company of New Atheists, but Sparrow simply damns the whole movement by equating all of New Atheism with neo-fascism. He accomplishes this by ignoring the diversity of political views within the New Atheists — we’re a madly disorganized mob, united only by our dislike of the god-thing, so politics isn’t a criterion for being one of us — and cherry-picking a couple of prominent New Atheists as proxies for all of us. So he quotes Christopher Hitchens, probably the most belligerent critic of Islam in our ranks, and Sam Harris, who can also be harshly critical.

It is … impossible to compromise with the stone-faced propagandists for Bronze Age morality: morons and philistines who hate Darwin and Einstein and managed, during their brief rule in Afghanistan, to ban and erase music and art while cultivating the skills of germ warfare. If they could do that to Afghans, what might they not have in mind for us? In confronting such people, the crucial thing is to be willing and able, if not in fact eager, to kill them without pity before they get started.

Christopher Hitchens

The […] failure of liberalism is evident in Western Europe, where the dogma of multiculturalism has left a secular Europe very slow to address the looming problem of religious extremism among its immigrants.The people who speak most sensibly about the threat that Islam poses to Europe are actually fascists.

Sam Harris

And here’s where I’m in an awkward spot, because I do disagree with both of the quotes to a certain extent. I am a knee-jerk pacifist who would not ever want to encourage eagerness to kill anyone, and I also would not praise the sensibility of fascists without also immediately stomping on their ‘nads with my Steel-Toed Boots of Sarcasm +3 (which, for all I know from this partial quote, Sam might have gone on to do himself). So I distance myself somewhat from their views.

The will to kill, and actually killing people, is not a sensible approach. Not only is it practically impossible to exterminate all of our enemies, but even if it were, it would be abhorrent and evil, and make us worthy targets of genocide ourselves — so we’re left with the historically common strategy of selectively murdering a scattering of opponents, which never works. At best we could temporarily cow a population, and perhaps deprive a generation or two of children of freedom and security, but we would never win over a nation to a common cause, or even away from revenge. It always baffles me that right-wingers can cheer for a cartoonish revenge fantasy movie like Red Dawn, which shows brave Americans nobly and self-sacrificingly resisting an imaginary Soviet invasion, and yet not realize that every time our tanks roll into some small country, we are replaying that movie for them for real…and we’re the villains.

I disagree with Harris and Hitchens, especially Hitchens on this one issue, but I also defend them, and not just in the sense of defending the principle of free speech, but because I also agree with them in part. Somehow, the meaning of “progressive” has weakened so much that it can be equated to radical, militant tolerance of every blithering looniness someone might spout, with tactics that constitute little more than limp-wristed surrender to the excuses of bigots.

Too often, the conversation between so-called ‘progressives’ and their opponents is one of gelatin-spined appeasers trying desperately to stave off the tyrants of the right by frantically retreating from the conflict.

“I want to chop off my daughter’s clitoris,” says the Islamist. “Oooh, that’s not nice,” says the ‘progressive’, “and your deep, rich cultural traditions make me hesitate to object.”

Meanwhile, the New Atheist says “NO. There is no ambiguity here: your children are individuals, you have NO RIGHT to butcher them. And being an ignorant barbarian is no excuse.”

“I demand that the public schools respect my mythology and teach everyone that the earth is 6000 years old,” says the Christian Dominionist, “and also, you can’t ever say a word to my children that contradicts Scripture.” The ‘progressive’ replies, “Well, we wouldn’t want to offend anyone, so maybe we can find a curriculum that doesn’t use the “e” word and doesn’t stir up any conflicts between science and religion. Let’s compromise.”

The New Atheist says, “You’re wrong. You’re worse than wrong, you’re stupid. We’re going to educate your children whether you like it or not, because they have a right to grow up without your self-inflicted brain injury.”

“Belief in God is an essential part of being human and must be nurtured for the good of civilization,” says the Evangelical. The ‘progressive’ cheerfully agrees, ignoring the sectarian tribalism that religion fosters, ignoring the absurdity of the Evangelical’s very specific, very peculiar adherence to a dogmatic mythology, for which this happy acquiescence to an absence of critical thought is a convenient foot in the door.

The New Atheist instead argues that religion must be relegated to the status of a personal quirk, an affectation or hobby, and that the real heart of modern civilization lies in science, and reason, and evidence-based decision-making. Religion is a barbarous obsidian knife poised over our chests — put it in a cabinet and admire it as a work of art, but don’t ever wield the damned thing ever again.

“Homosexuals are a disgusting abomination,” scream the fundamentalists. The ‘progressives’ respond, “Oooh, well, we were going to advocate tolerance and equality, but in the light of your rousing certainty, we’ll yank this commercial that blandly suggests that maybe gay people are human just like you.”

The New Atheist, at this point, just facepalms incredulously and walks away from these lily-livered fair-weather advocates for equality.

Mr Sparrow’s argument that all New Atheists are fascists rests on one point: the blanket claim that we’re all Islamophobic bigots who want to exterminate all Muslims, and he suggests that it is reasonable to disbelieve in a god, but we have to do it while somehow not annoying Islamic fundamentalists. Somehow, in his mind, the Global Atheist Convention has become a staging area for a few days of focused hate on Islam — and he demands that we take a stand and denounce the speakers. Having attended the last Australian convention, that’s a weird characterization of the occasion. Sparrow might want to look at the Dublin Declaration on Religion in Public Life, which is a much more accurate summary of the attitudes expressed in these New Atheist gatherings.

It’s a very progressive document. Not in the sense that some ‘progressives’ believe, in which the only progressive value is surrender, but in the sense that it actually stands firmly for positive values, like freedom of conscience and thought, equality before the law, and secular education for all. That we actually believe in something, and that we stand up for it in speech and deed, does not imply that we’re totalitarian fascists, except to people who think the only true progressive response must be silence, and inaction, and acquiescence.

Sparrow knows this. He has another column where he rebukes the idea of reform by conciliation and appeasing the right, but he only takes that stand on purely political issues. It’s strangely common to see how adding religion to the mix of issues seems to make so many people drop to their knees and start bowing in obedience.

Atheists Talk radio

This week, that godless radio program has Greg Laden interviewing Ed Brayton at 9am Sunday morning, which will be 3pm out here in the UK, and I’ll be on a train to Heathrow, probably napping. But you can listen to it. Yes, you. If you use the zip code of 56267 you can even pretend to be me for an hour. Except you wouldn’t want to, because me is dragging and feeling a bit like a limp rag after a long weeeeek of bouncing about these strange northern isles.

In the news

The Dublin conference, with quotes from yours truly, appears in the Christian Science Monitor. I might appear on BBC1 tomorrow morning. I was interviewed, but I was introduced to the interviewer by Rebecca Watson as the truly most ferocious atheist around, and while I tried to sound terrifying and cruel, she kept on cracking up during the interview. So it may get cut.

The cracker does rear it’s terrifying head again in a wingnut Catholic complaint. That thing will haunt me to the grave.

I got sent this picture. It’s perfect for my Thursday conversation with Richard Dawkins.

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Dublin World Atheist Conference

I’ve been bad. I’ve been busy. I’m at this conference, and the combination of bad wifi (I can’t get connected in my room at all) and constant distractions means I haven’t been keeping you updated here. Fortunately, Rorschach is here and has been blogging away while I can’t, so I can just cheat and link to him.

The Muslims have invaded. They don’t have much stamina. They were there for Richard Dawkins’ session yesterday, asked a stupid question, and since have retired to a table outside, where they peddle bad literature that looks like clones of Christian creationist nonsense.

I gave a talk today. It was self-confessedly ranty.

There was a women in atheism panel. It caused some seething fury in the audience from the American participants: it seems European women face less discrimination than American women, so it came off as an unfortunately privileged discussion, in which women should just work hard and equality will come naturally.

The communicating atheism discussion was fun. Aron Ra was impressive, Rebecca Watson was fabulously indignant and persuasive about the specific problems women atheist speakers face.

I think I have to go crawl around some pubs tonight. Rorschach is going to go, too, so you’ll just have to go without further information until I get back. And recover.

The Final Tally on the Camp Quest race: I win!

Donations are closed. Here are the final numbers:

Team Awful: $13,550.06
Lord PZ, Unique and Majestic: $12,996.01

Matched amounts:
Team Awful: $1,868.73
Lord PZ, Diabolically Alone: $1,620.00
Total Match: $3,488.73

Team Totals (with matches included):
Team Awful: $15,418.79
Lord PZ, Cunning and Charismatic: $14,616.01

Grand Total Raised: $30,034.80

Goodness was accomplished. Team Awful was punted about unmercifully at my whim, and were completely outclassed and outmaneuvered at every point. My Xanatos Gambit succeeded perfectly, not only manipulating the bewildered, undisciplined mob behind Team Awful, but also manipulating you, the donors! Bwahahahahaha!

Now, of course, the penalties must be paid: Greta Christina will regale us in karaoke, Jen will have pratfalls while learning to bicycle, JT will be going hairless, and Matt will be appearing on the Atheist Experience in drag. While I will be leaning back in my easy chair, sipping an iced tea, and laughing.

You’ll be missing the PZ of 2001:

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Although, heck, I’m looking good. I might go for it anyway. See, this is another way I tricked them: my forfeit, that I used to to get them to stumble all over and make fools of themselves, was no penalty at all.

Ayn Rand wasn’t always wrong

This is a video of Ayn Rand on a talk show in, I think, the 1970s. Don’t run away yet! The interesting part isn’t Ayn Rand, who merely says the same thing all we atheists say nowadays, but the audience and also the host: they seem horrified that someone has so boldly stated that they don’t believe in god. And that liberal host, Phil Donahue, “tsk, tsk, tsk”s her, and you can tell he’s just unable to comprehend someone denying the deity.

We have come a long way. I don’t think a modern audience would be much less annoyed, but at least they wouldn’t be as surprised.

OK, just to correct your exposure to Rand (although she doesn’t say anything objectionable in the clip above), here’s Christopher Hitchens.

Last ditch effort!

The competition between myself and the eleventeen dwarfs to raise money for Camp Quest isn’t over yet: somehow, the chipin widget gives us until 2:00 (what time zone? I don’t know) this afternoon to get donations in.

To complicate matters further, the Todd Stiefel Freethought Foundation has just popped up with an offer to double every donation, up to $5000 for each side, in these last few hours. This is the moment to jump in and kick in a few bucks, to assure my final victory.

You can donate to either side, too. Either one gives me a triumph.

Heads I win, tails they lose

In the last episode of our competition to raise money for Camp Quest, I had elegantly and cunningly turned the tables on Team Beat PZ: after trouncing them thoroughly in all fundraising efforts, I had maneuvered them into desperately offering all kinds of humiliating forfeits if they should win the competition, so I reversed course and urged all of my minions to donate to them. I am now in the enviable position of “pwning” the other team, in Greta Christina’s words, if I raise more money than they do, or of humiliating them, in my words, if they have to carry through with their promised penalties.

They have stepped into my lair and my tentacles enfold them. There is no escape.

Now, though, only $8 separates us in this final day of the race.

My opposition is confused and in disarray, and they don’t know whether to counter my last gambit or to persist in their path to humiliation. I don’t care either way. I’ve already won, no matter which way they stumble. Donate as you will. I’m preparing my victory gloat either way.

I have heard glimmerings that they are planning a final surge, but I am unconcerned. Whatever side the surge occurs on, I am victorious.