You asked for it, I deliver. Here’s a good chunk of the opposition email that I’ve received in the last two days; not quite all of it, though, since I got bored and a lot of it has just been going straight into the trash. I’ve tried to cut out most of the identifying names and so forth, but if I missed a few…tough.
Trust me, it’s very tiresome to read.
I know you are smarter than most people and probably even God himself, if you even believe in God. But you could learn something in humility. And there is nothing wrong with a Catholic standing up for his faith. In fact, a Catholic who doesn’t defend his faith is an ignorant Catholic. Mr. Donohue defends the Catholic faith and deserves praise from all Catholics. I bet your one of those tolerant professors who shows tolerance to everything but Christianity. But I am sure your are proud of bashing the Catholic faith.
I can definitely score a Eucharist for you. You may not care for the taste though, but then again I don’t care for your moronic position regarding the desecration of the Eucharist. Would you be bold enough to take this type of childish stance if it were involving a sacred Muslim object/ I’d bet cash money that you wouldn’t as folks like you hide in the insulated academic world, as you are too frightened and inept to work in the corporate world where one is paid and advances based on performance, not liberal childish rants. Where do you want me to send it?
The Catholic League is going after your job because you are a vile anti-
Catholic bigot who really does deserve to pay a high price professonally for
such a public act of contempt for the Catholic faith of tens of millions of
your fellow countrymen. I intend to write to your University and support the
call for disciplinary action against you (and encourage all my colleagues to do
likewise) for misusing your University’s resources to express hatred and for my
faith. You are confusing free speech for hate speech and the U. of Minnesota
would do very well to help you see the difference, since you have given every
sign of lacking the emotional, social and intellectual resources to make such
an elementary distinction.
IF Catholics had half the testosterone of muzzies, the answer would be simple. Holy hollowpoint. But alas, I expect they will whimper and grovel as usual.
I am sure you are a very intelligent man and that is why it surprises me that you would find the time to spew such vile anti-catholic bigotry about something held sacred in a religion of over a billion people. Surely you have more valuable things to do with your time than hate filled blogs about the Holy Eucharist. I wont waste a lot of my time or your time trying to change your mind through a debate. All I can say is please refrain from hate filled blogs. It makes what is supposed to be an intelligent person look very small minded. Keep hope as I’m sure you are being prayed for.
just read that you are looking to desecrate the Eucharist. It’s great to know that America’s institutions of “higher learning” have gifted folks like you teaching future generations. Sometimes I worry about whether or not our schools and universities are filled with a bunch of whack-jobs spewing nothingness into the minds of our young. I need not worry any more…with “professors” like you, Mr. Myers, I know we are in great shape.
God help us (us includes you).
PS – I find it rather funny that so many people are incredibly tolerant (nice buzzword) until they feel offended. Then all tolerance goes out the window.
So, would you really do something like that? Really? I can only suppose, then,
that you also wouldn’t mind defecating on a Buddha in a temple, or urinating on
a Torah while it’s still in its Ark, or maybe you’d go for stuffing a Koran
down a toilet and flushing. Were you the kind of brother that would tear off
the head of your sister’s favorite doll? – or step on one of your
mother’s favorite plants? I saw your picture on the university’s website
and you look like a pretty even-tempered man. You don’t look like a man that
would do what you described above, let alone say it. What happened man?
Seriously – what happened?You should be nicer in what you say and do to people and to the things those
people hold dear. If you don’t have anything good to say – don’t say anything
at all.
Why are you such an insensitive man? Do you think you’re funny? Your comments hurt a lot of people-but don’t worry-we’ll pray for you!
Hey Mr. Critical, I dare you to do something to desecrate Islam. -Oh thats right; they are not passive like Christians and a loud mouth Jerk like yourself would get jihaded. My guess is your principles stop when it gets scarry!
I’ll be looking for you’re new “Islam Posting” you pussy. I don’t think you have the balls though!
Take a good look in the mirror-is there a soul in there? I sure hope you find it.
Unfortunately,
You couldn’t help yourself! Pay the tax payers for your advertising!
Free loader!
You are another fine example of good education dollars gone to waste…..I hope your resume is up to date, because after your latest diatribe regarding the Eucharist, you are going to be out of a job. Good riddence.
is it so easy to acquire academic status at this seat of learning (UMM) that the acquisition to Professor be given to the one least fitting?
I refer you to Prof Paul Zachary Myers and his alleged remarks regarding the Eucharist, or Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ, Son of the living God.
I do not know the professor but if I am to understand his mental state he considers the Eucharist merely a ‘Frackin Cracker’?
If this be the case why would an alleged intelligent person (supposed) become so enraged over a ‘Frackin Cracker’?
This Prof lectures in Science and Mathematics and if he said those things that would hardly be Scientific or Mathematical.
For instance he could have responded by saying what is the Mathematical odds of the Eucharist being what it is claimed to be?
Or he could have said those Christians are not very Scientific in their beliefs and he could have acted in a more mature fashion.
He chose to do neither of these but apparently flew off at a ‘Tangent’ and became quite un-scientific in what he would or would not do to a small ‘host’, and before photographers as well.
Is he that un-stable and lacking in attention that he would resort to childish behaviour without regard to his faculty or the example set to his students?
I say again the standard set for academic heads in this university needs to be addressed.
Perhaps Mr Myers has deep seated animosity toward Christians and somehow seeks redress for his earlier years as a Jewish person (assumed) growing up in the wrong neighbourhood?
If that is the case then Christians everywhere apologise and assure him we do not hate Jewish people but love them as elder brothers and sisters in Christ.
We would like him to reciprocate in kind and give up the hatred that drives him to say such things against the only person in the Universe that really loves him, and that is Christ.
He will understand the immensity of that love being in the science faculty. Regards
Paul, why are you persecuting Me?
We will be praying for you and for your conversion in reference to your “It’s a Frackin’ Cracker!” comments.
Perhaps Prof. Myers should try desecrating the Koran next time … or perhaps you should censure him, and let him know that 21st century people don’t go bashing other folks religious beliefs. What Prof. Myers problem is … drinking too much, or just he just like bullying soft targets … as his boss you need to address the BIG BLACK EYE he just gave your school … nationwide! All Catholic kids would do well do avoid your campus until you resolve this issue.
I know that you are just acting out because you are spending your career at a fourth tier university (wasn’t the community college hiring?) Would you go to a Mosque and eat a ham sandwich? No of course not, because you are a typical whiny college professor. Are you upset because your boyhood priest didn’t show you any love?
As a Catholic professor in theology I am deeply sadden by your comments. If this were said about the Muslim Koran or the Jewish faith the media would be all over you and you would lose your job. But not if you attack the Catholic Church. Your University turns a blind eye. Shame on them.
What do you have against Catholics and our faith to make you say such harsh and evil things?
I am a believing Catholic and saw the statements about the Eucharist you posted at 10:40 a.m. today (July 10, 2008) on the Pharyngula website (“It’s a Frackin’ Cracker!”). I found your e-mail address on the University of Minnesota’s web page, Dept. of Biology.
You trample one of the very dearest beliefs of Catholicism in brutally offensive terms, and you propose heinous sacrilege. I was very sorry to read that and earnestly hope and pray that you will not follow through on your desire to commit sacrilege with a consecrated Eucharist.
It is profoundly disturbing that you are in a position of authority over students most surely including Catholics, Orthodox, Episcopalians and other Christians who believe in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist.
As I’m sure you are now aware one of your staff members, Paul Myers, has publicly made remarks that are extremely offensive to the sensibilities of all Orthodox and Roman Catholics:
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/07/its_a_goddamned_cracker.php
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/07/now_ive_got_bill_donohues_atte.phpI understand that Prof. Myers has the constitutional right to speak his mind on whatever issues he feels compelled, however as a staff member of your university it is my understanding that Prof. Myer is expected to adhere to code of conduct that fosters respect and civility towards people of all backgrounds and beliefs:
http://www1.umn.edu/regents/policies/academic/Code_of_Conduct.htmlProf. Myers comments have clearly gone beyond any reasonable dialog and I don’t think it would be too much of a stretch to say that they constitute hate speech.
I am not asking for any specific action on your part, as I trust that you will know best how to ensure that the values of tolerance and civility are being fostered at your University. However, I did want to ensure that you were aware that these comments were made and that they are being associated with University of Minnesota on a national level:
http://www.catholicleague.org/release.php?id=1459
Dear President Bruin:
It appears that Professor Paul Z. Myers is either insane or, if there is a difference, a rabid hater of the Catholic Church as he has publicly (With ID as one of your teachers) stated that he will publicly desecrate the Holy Eucharist in the form of a consecrated communion host.
If he is generally against religion, I suggest that he show the courage of that position by publicly using a copy of the Koran to wipe his behind. If he plans to do so, please let me know so I can give prior notice to the Muslim communities in your State AND recommend to a mathematics instructor I know to apply to fill the sudden vacancy of Dr. Myers’ position.
Unless Dr. Myers is severely disciplined I would recommend to the University of Wisconsin, Marquette University and all other schools that they do NOT accept credit transfers from your school as to serious doubts as to the quality of instruction there.
I do not wish to remove your cranium from your backbone.
I do not know what drives you to be an intolerant hypocrite of an Atheist.
But I would be happy to press charges of committing a “hate crime.”
Do not stand in line for the Eucharist in my parish; I would be sure to prevent you from committing a heinous desecration
How did you ever get hired? You sure won’t get tenure, and don’t deserve it. I’m writing to the President for what its worth.
I urge you to stand up against the hate-filled “professor” Paul Zachary Myers, and the University President Robert Bruininks for allowing Mr. Myers to spew hateful Anti-Catholic tirades that can be accessed directly from the U of M’s web site. I EMPLOR YOU TO STOP GIVING ANY MONEY TO THE UNIVERSITY UNTIL MR. MEYERS IS HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR HIS BIGGOTRY!
Here is an excerpt of his July 8 post, “It’s a Frackin’ Cracker!” accessed from the U of M website:
“Can anyone out there score me some consecrated communion wafers?” Myers continued by saying, “if any of you would be willing to do what it takes to get me some, or even one, and mail it to me, I’ll show you sacrilege, gladly, and with much fanfare. I won’t be tempted to hold it hostage (no, not even if I have a choice between returning the Eucharist and watching Bill Donohue kick the pope in the balls, which would apparently be a more humane act than desecrating a goddamned cracker), but will instead treat it with profound disrespect and heinous cracker abuse, all photographed and presented here on the web.”
If any professor denigrated and insulted homosexuals, Muslims, threatened to desecrate the Koran, or insulted Martin Luther King in this way you would have an all-out riot on your hands. However, as usual, it seems to be open season on Catholics with no consequences.
Paul Myers is a buffoon with zero intellectual qualities and has no business on your University’s staff. If you don’t believe me just check out the level of immaturity and stupidity he displays on his blog.
I read your blog about the consecrated host being a “frackin’ cracker”, and criticizing, objecting to a position the Catholic League took against a student at the university of Central Florida.
Needless to say, as a devout Roman Catholic, I join with thousands of others who were very offended by your remarks. I believe that the “frackin’ cracker”, as you so cleverly referred to the Sacred Host, is the Body of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ consecrated by a priest at Mass under the appearance of a wafer of unleavened bread. This is my faith and that of millions of other orthodox Catholics. You have offended us grievously. If you have such apparent regard for the sincere faith of others, I challenge you to publish a similar disparaging remark about the Koran or other sacred beliefs of Islam, or for that matter any other religion.
I demand that you publish an apology for your offensive remark.
I pity the students who pay good money to go to college and have to listen to your arrogant diatribes against whatever subject you loathe. How totally immature and pathetic.
Would you be so brave as to use such hate-filled rhetoric against the MUSLIM tenets? I doubt you’d want a jihad launched against you for your FREE SPEECH which many Catholics in the service died giving you.
Wow PZ that’s quite a rant! Your temper is getting the best of you? As an asso professor, what a lesson you teach our children: hate, religious bigotry, intolerance, shouting instead of discussion, use of innuendo w/o facts, etc.! You must really hate Catholics.
“Scumbags” and “which hunters”? I thought liberal intellectuals were tolerant – even of those they disagree with.
Just because you’re a devout and zealous atheist (I see your blog site http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/) doesn’t mean you have to HATE and offend all Catholics. Can you not be “respectful, fair and civil”.
Yesterday almost no one outside of the narrow confines of Minnesota academia had ever heard the name of Paul Zachary Myers. But today the name rings with infamy, and has become synonomous with hatred and intolerance. You might have gained renown for some tremendous scientific breakthrough, or for touching the minds and hearts of your students. Instead you have become notorious for your ignorance and your bigotry. Your story, Paul, is truly tragic.
If you are not Catholic than you have no reason to publicly opine about the doctrine of Eucharistic transubstantiation. You certainly have no right to parade your ignorance and sacrilege via a link to the university’s web page. If you had so publicly mocked the culture of blacks, Muslims, homosexuals, or Jews than you would be (rightfully) without a job today. But since you picked on Catholics and their beliefs, you probably feel that you are professionally in the clear since it is very fashionable in the academic sphere to trash Christianity in general and the Catholic Church in particular.
As a Jew who has been baptized a Catholic I can say I am no stranger to either anti-Semitism or to anti-Catholicism. Both lead to the same conclusion, Paul: the perpetrators become lesser human beings.
Shame on you for abusing your academic pulpit in this way. I pray that the university authorities will handle your case with wisdom and with justice.
Paul, you have some bridges to build after this terrible misdeed. Make amends, and stop hating for hate’s sake.
Myers: How about dropping your ignorant, immature, hate-filled, bigoted stunt? If you do desecrate the Body and Blood of Christ, you are playing with fire, and you will regret it eternally. I know how people like you laugh at and scorn people like me, but I’m afraid God will get the last laugh on this one. GOD IS NOT MOCKED. Because I’m Catholic, I have to pray for you, and I will, but in the end, you’re the one with free will to accept or reject Jesus. Good luck–you’ll need it.
I am writing to express my outrage at Professor Myers’ expressed intention to desecrate a consecrated Host, an object held sacred by Roman Catholics. Yes, we all know by now that the professor holds all religion in utmost contempt — he’s made that clear enough to the general public. However, what he is asking for on his blog post goes beyond the pale. As American citizens who enjoy the right to the freedom of religious expression, Catholics should also have the right to be free from this sort of harassment against our faith, especially from a professor who is paid with tax dollars, tax money which we Catholics also contribute.
From his latest posting, he’s obviously feeling like he’s rather immune from any sort of consequences. If that turns out to be true, then I will be deeply disappointed. Obviously, there isn’t much I can do. I won’t threaten him because such threats would be empty and stupid (and those who have threatened him should be ashamed of themselves). I can’t say I’ll boycott paying my taxes as the State wouldn’t appreciate it. However, I can call on those who are in authority to exercise that authority appropriately and to at least reprimand him for what should be easily recognized as truly outrageous behavior.
I seriously doubt that he would ask someone to get him a Koran from a mosque or a copy of the Torah from a synagogue in order to publicly desecrate them since, after all, they’re only pieces of paper with ink on them. Asking for the Koran would probably bring him and the U of M physical harm. Asking for a Torah would bring a swift lawsuit from the ADL. Right now, all he’s getting is a public scolding from the Catholic League and some nasty e-mails. Therefore, I hope the U of M sees this for what it is — a serious offense against Catholics — and takes appropriate action.
I honestly pity the hatred that you seem to embody. Anybody that did threaten you or was hateful was absolutely wrong….however one cannot but pity the sadness, anger and frustration that is clearly evident in the way you write. It truly would not take a psychologist to see how toxic to you your own poison actually is!!
I am not sure what form of education gave you the licence to speak the way you do or made you think that “you’re it”, however, truly you would do yourself an immense favor (probably more than anybody else), if you at least minimized the amount of trash you spew and the ignorance you portray in so doing…. Truly there is no limit to stupidity!
As a Catholic I forgive you. May God bless you and enlighten your mind.
What a sad, pathetic man you are. You were raised a Christian – why all the hatred and name calling? What did we ever do to you to make you hate us so much? As a taxpayer who’s helping pay your salary I’m entitled to have a say over vitriol posted on a public site that rips into me and my beliefs.
I want to tell you how disgusting your blasphemy is to me as a Catholic and as a UMM grad.
I have asked to be removed from any further contact with UMM and will never give another dime towards any alumni support or scholarship support. It is quite interesting how you who are amongst the most liberal denigrate and blaspheme that which you know nothing about and criticize that which is sacred and holy.
I just read the July 8, 2008 rant by Prof. Myers, in which he pledges to
desecrate the Catholic Eucharist (which Catholics consider to be holy).
Frankly, I am astounded that your University would allow such vitriolic
hatred and bigotry to be spewed from one of its Professors! I don’t think
I’ve ever before come across such prejudice and hatred in print! The fact
that he teaches students (some of whom are Catholic) is most troubling. Is
this the kind of person parents and taxpayers pay to influence the minds of
their students? I wonder if Catholicism is belittled in his classroom as
well–who knows? Clearly, he is an immature man and a first class bigot.I certainly hope that you and the Board of Regents will treat this matter
with the seriousness it deserves. In such cases, I’ve found that it’s often
enlightening to argue by analogy and to substitute another group for the one
which is being denigrated. Thus, instead of against Catholics, let’s assume
that Prof. Myers spewed bigotry against Jews or Blacks. For example, let’s
imagine that Prof. Myers said, “The Torah is nothing more than a piece of
paper. Can anyone out there steal me a torah? I’ll show you sacrilege,
gladly, and with much fanfare. I will treat it with profound disrepect and
heinous abuse, all photographed and presented here on the web! I intend to
urinate on it, draw swastikas on it, and then rip it up.”I’m sure that if your professor said such things regarding a holy Jewish
object, he would be instantly fired. Or, at the very least, he would be
vilified in the press and picketed by students. Great numbers of enraged
faculty members, moreover, would call for his resignation. And alumni would
boycott their contributions to the school. No one would even think to
mention freedom of speech or tenure in the face of such hatred and bigotry.Why, then, should it be any different when Catholics are the object of his
hatred and bigotry???????We need to hit him where it hurts. Perhaps I should grab a copy of his Holy
Book, which I assume to be Darwin’s Origin of Species, and desecrate that!
LOL!!
I recently found your comments on your blog, which is linked to official U of M sites, to be offensive to members of the Catholic faith. I am a 25-year old Catholic who is also a teacher and I would ask you to consider the position you have in the academic world. As a professor and a teacher of students, you are a unique position to change lives. You are, no doubt, respected for your position and your expertise. As such, you also bear a responsibility to those whom you teach to be civil and use your reason to bring others to the truth. Degrading a religious faith is an abuse of your position in society. Arguing against the doctrine of the Eucharist in a rational matter would have been a better choice. Then you could have engaged in an interesting debate. Many people would have benefited. I hope that you will consider your approach to such issues in the future. I’m sure you are a busy man, but if you would like to correspond more on the matter, I would be happy to speak with you.
if you want to get some real laughs and giggles, why not say something really disparaging about Allah?? i think we all know why, let’s see how wild and kooky you are and do that, we all know attacking Christians is easy, i think you were the kind of kid who would hand over your lunch money to the bullies at school instead of standing up for yourself, by the way, what are you doing for mankind that equals what a Mother Teresa did, and she believed in the Eucharist…oh i know, you teach biology……that is a big deal.
Your plans to publicly and intentionally debase a consecrated communion wafer have recently come to my attention. While I have the utmost respect for your right to freedom of speech, I have to strongly discourage you in this course of action. Just because you can do something, does not mean you should. Not only will you deeply offend and disrespect millions of Catholics, Orthodox and Episcopalians with such an act, you will violate the sense of mutual respect and understanding that has allowed this nation to be a forum of shared knowledge and a haven for the persecuted. Perhaps you are unaware of it due to its lack of publicity, but anti-Catholicism is alive and well. While this act might seem to be a harmless act of protest to you, it only reinforces the bigotry that many of us face on a daily basis. This act would be as offensive to Catholics as a desecration of the Koran would be to Muslims. I doubt your employers would approve of a plan for you to publicly defile the Koran, so I would hope that they will not endorse your current plan either. Why do you feel the need to do this? I am happy for you to voice disapproval with the Catholic Church, but can’t you find some other, intelligent and meaningful way of doing it? Debate a Bishop, write a paper, make a TV appearance, burn the Papal flag, just don’t carry out your plan. If you have grievances with the Church, explain your position in a public forum. That’s the American thing to do.
You have asked your reader to provide you with communion wafers for the purpose of “show[ing] you sacrilege, gladly, and with much fanfare.” I readily concede that it is extremely strange, even a little creepy, to believe that a wafer is in a real sense God, and yet that is what I do believe. I have no objection to your jokes and satirical remarks — they’re not much different from what Protestants have been saying for five hundred years, and indeed what Berengar of Tours said in the eleventh century. However, I do ask you this: that you not actually carry out your plan. I wouldn’t ordinarily make such a request of a stranger, but the thing can hardly matter to you one way or the other — as you put it, it’s a cracker — and it does matter to me. I have tried to find an analogy to explain my request and this is the best I can do: you might be entirely right that a old rag is worthless and should be thrown out, yet, if that rag were a small child’s security blanket, I doubt you would do so, to spare the child’s feelings. I put myself in the place of that child, and ask: Please don’t. I’m not asking for respect, only for a small kindness of omission: not trampling feelings for the sake of the trampling.
What do you hold sacred?
Do you respect the faith of others?
Does your employer support all kinds of diversity EXCEPT religious?
Do you support all manner of rule and law breakers?
Your threat is foolish and your reaction to the Catholic League borders on psychotic.
I urge you not to desecrate the Eucharist.
In the most blessed sacrament of the Eucharist the body and blood, together with the soul and divinity, of our Lord Jesus Christ and, therefore, the whole Christ is truly, really, and substantially contained.
Such a sacrilege would not only be deeply offensive to Catholics, but also to people of all faiths for such a blatant disrespect of a profoundly held religious belief.
I am getting more accustomed to the idea that there apparently exists a nascent consensus in certain academic circles that it is OK to bait Catholics (whilst other faiths- whether of religious or secular pedigree- are either ignored, tolerated, or, in certain privileged instances of natural selection, jammed down our throats by judicial decree).
I simply wish to point out that such a consensus is odious. It is ugly, uncivilized, and perfectly know-nothing.
I hope that you will determine it to be in the best interests of your institution- as it most certainly is in the best interest of limiting further self-humiliation of this ignorant boor Meyers- to advise him to leave his Catholic-bashing to his private time and resources.
You must be crazy.
Myers, you certainly sound like a B.Y.E.
What do you do in your spare time, watch The Exorcist and root for Satan?
You supposedly “teach” science and math?
I doubt it.
Remember that Freedom of Speech is not freedom to harm others, which is what you are doing.
But since you are snug in your relative values of the moment, I know that will mean nothing to you, or your sick ego.
I can’t tell you how disappointed I am regarding remarks of desecrating something that is Sacred to my family and all Catholics; the Holy Eucharist
The University of Minnesota Morris should be a beacon of enlightenment, not a cave of prejudice, hatred and ignorance. I have twins in high school and the University of Minnesota Morris is one university where I, unfortunately, will not allow them to attend. I will not have them present at a University that will entertain individuals who will hate them for their religion.
don’t know what your beliefs are, but it is sad that you have no regard for those many millions of us who love the catholic church and the Holy Eucharist. It is disappointing that someone in your position, in a university teaching our young, future leaders to desecrate something others deem holy. Perhaps you should be more considerate and learn some basic manners. You don’t need a college degree for that, do you? Certainly, this is a scathing indictment on your “institution of higher learning”.
I ran across your blog via a link from Mark Shea’s website.
Your blog is, in my opinion, a very inspirational site.
I’m retired from the military, a college graduate, and have a 99th percentile IQ, verified by High School, college, and military intelligence testing. Since you are a professor, I assume you understand percentile rankings.
I am also a convert to the Catholic Church, being fully accepted into the Church in my early 40s.
I must tell you that, far from being offended by your commentary, I am, rather, confirmed in my beliefs, and inspired by your hatred of Christ.
I used to believe, essentially, as you do, though without the vitriolic hatred. I had nothing against people who believed in God, regardless of their denominational persuasion. I just didn’t buy it.
But, over the years, as I experienced life, educated myself, studied (as a hobby) subjects such as physics, cosmology, quantum mechanics, history, theology, biology, and many other topics, I found myself realizing that there may be more to our existence than simple happenstance.
Anyway, to cut a long story short, I appreciate your blog. Christ foretold you, and many others just like you, two millennia ago when He prophesied that his followers would be hated because of Him. Pretty clever for someone you regard either as a myth, or as a deranged lunatic.
Remember, PZ, you have absolutely no verifiable explanation of why, or how, we are here. None. Your atheism is a faith equal to or exceeding that of the most committed religious zealot. You have no proof whatsoever of your atheistic beliefs. None. Zilch. Zero. You are no different in your faith than Mohammed Atta, or any of the 9/11 killers. In a way you are worse than they were; you are “educated” and “civilized”, whereas they were simply indoctrinated. But you and your kind are the greatest killers in the history of Man; see, for example, Stalin, Hitler, and Mao: they were all intellectual secularists, just like you.
You’re not at all intelligent, PZ; you’ve simply adopted the 1960s default position of taking a contrarian position to accepted or conventional wisdom, and imagining that you’ve adopted a position of “enlightenment”. It’s sad, really; you’ve achieved a position of educational eminence, yet have never learned how to think.
If you really want a wafer to desecrate, you’re welcome to come to meet me in Skowhegan at my Church; I’ll give you one, and gladly, and sadly, watch you make a fool of yourself. I’m not a bit bothered that you don’t believe in God; God may be, but I’m not.
You’re a bully, a coward, a bigot, a dullard masquerading as an intellectual, and an extremely poor writer. Incidentally, perusing the comments on your blog I was struck by the extraordinarily poor grammar and writing skills of your disciples, in addition to their ignorance, hatred, and bigotry. But not terribly surprised, actually.
As a graduate student and a convert to Catholicism (through my own, intellectual choosing), I find your disdain of Catholics and their beliefs deplorable, immature, and unprofessional. I hope that as a historian that I never call for such disrespect for any world religion as you have done, much less be responsible for the scandal that it would bring to the devotee’s hearts, faith, and well-being.
As an employee of the state, much like yourself, I would also think such offensive speculation would jeopardize my standing in the field and would limit me as I try to advance in my chosen career path.
I hope that others contact you as well, and that a heartfelt and sincere apology to Catholics and those that happen to not share you ‘enlightened’ worldview would be much appreciated by all involved in this ugly and unfortunate event.
Your posting on your website titled “It’s a frackin’ cracker!” was both rude and insensitive toward the beliefs of millions of people. Your opinions about whether or not the Eucharist is actually God are your own, and I respect your opinion, but desecrating another’s sacred and holy object is not at all respectable. Ripping apart the Eucharist for those of the Catholic faith is equivalantly worse than force-feeding a cow to a Hindu, or displaying pictures of Allah to insult the Muslim community. You do not need to act like an ass to express your beliefs. I request that you refrain from treating my God in such a disrespectful manner; in case you do not comprehend how much your suggestion has upset people, it might be equivalent to your grief had someone threatened to run over your children. Your opinions are your own, but they don’t give you license to do whatever you please. I hope your research in the biological field continues to be successful and I thank you for your time.
So i just wanted to tell you how much I appreciate your ideas about
the Eucharist. It really demonstrates how incredibly far the modern
man has gone to reject God and any form of religion. It shows how far
we have fallen that you, a so called PROFESSOR would say these things.
Why do you not post something like, “Its just a ROCk” for the Temple
of the Mount and offer desecration and cursing for a piece of it. Why
do you act like this? Biology has nothing to do with theology so why
do you get involved? Your behavior is that of a child, not a PhD.You should be ashamed of yourself and you should delete the post and
offer an apology because alot of people are offended by your comments.
If it’s just a cracker, then why not just desecrate an unconsecrated host?
How about a Koran, Dr. M? How about speaking w/ a Catholic theologian?
It is absolutely unacceptable to have on faculty a professor who does not represent and honor true showmanship and academic professionalism. It is abhorring that a University should labor such a person in question of doubtful virtuous character. Teachers and faculty members represent, both as a whole and in parts, the quality and the degree of excellence of the institution. But evidence have shown to the contrary. If the University wishes to maintain its high standard and prestige, it must show the dependability on part of the administration to keep and sustain the good reputation of its academia and people.
I have read your blog before for information on evolution and found it very informative. I find it sad that you also use it to broadcast irrational, foul-mouthed rants. You are giving yourself, your university, and all biology professors a bad name. Is it only when dealing with scientific data that you can muster self-control and rational thinking (rather than running, first thing, to ad hominem)? Or can you be trusted even to impartially evaluate scientific arguments? Show some respect and please try to use a little decorum. If you were to similarly insult any group–ANY group–other than Catholics, there would be a media uproar.
I am Catholic and I understand why you wrote the posts such as “frackin cracker.” I would like to say take the instance you have a personal prized possession that to many looks like nothing special. People would look at it and say “it`s just a rock” or something along those lines but to you it is so much more. Now imagine someone threatened to take it and damage or destroy it (which I am not at all threatening) how would you feel? What if they actually did such a thing? Shock and outrage would probably comprise all or part of your reaction correct?
To you the host the Eucharist is a cracker, yes it certainly looks like one, smells like one and so on. For Catholics though when the priest speaks the words of consecration something called transubstantiation takes place whereby the appearance of bread and wine remain but they become the body blood, soul and divinity of Jesus. Yes it is difficult to grasp I know but for Catholics who believe (including me) that that really is Jesus defending the Eucharist is a big deal for that reason, they think it really is Him. They see value in that “cracker” that you do not the same way you see value in a simple object that I do not. It is only through discussion not desecration that we can come to understand the meaning behind things we hold as special but to the other look like nothing.
I would ask of you to take to your nearest Catholic church any hosts that people may send you, and give them to the priest. Please do not do anything to them. The Eucharist (those crackers) is something special to me and I would appreciate your co operation in not harming something I care about even though you do not see its value.
May I ask you to click the following link to find out how Catholics feel about our Eucharist?
http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/engl_mir.htmTake your time and explore it…please explore with an open mind. I wish you well in mind, body and spirit…I wish you Eternal Truths, and a Hunger to seize you to know these Truths.
Please also, click the banner above to feed the physically Hungry. There are rising food prices and we believe that Jesus is present in everyone. But He is physically present in the Consecrated Host, and He feeds us spiritually with His Body and Blood in a form we accept as food – bread.
I can’t describe to you how deeply I know this. It is out-of-this-world information.
Even if you never believe in the Reality of God in the Consecrated Host, I would humbly ask you to respect the beliefs of others and please don’t do what you have said you will do.
Prayers, Blessings, Happiness now and for Eternity be yours!
I read an article on Catholic On-line about your intentions on desecration of the holy Eucharist. It is shameful that a person in your position of leadership over our youth in this nation would act in this manner. You should stop your sinful actions and apologize to the many Catholics who you have truly offended.
In the end, you are accountable which I will pray for your soul.
Myers rant and threats against the Holy Eucharist are a sad, but not a historically unfamiliar occurrence. I think Myers would have fit in well with other movements throughout history that sought to treat the Holy Eucharist with unholy regard. The Anarchists of the Spanish Civil War would have welcome Myers with opened arms, for example, and they surely would have supplied him with a large bundle of Eucharists.
Those throughout history that have attacked the Holy Eucharist in such a way harbor a deep seated resentment for things holy. And for Catholics, it doesn’t get much holier than the Eucharist. The Holy Eucharist represents Jesus Christ himself to Catholics, and it is beyond me why Myers would think it appropriate to desecrate Jesus Christ (again fitting in quite well with Anarchists and such). (Ironically, of course, Jesus represents the “Truth”, and it’s laughable that Univ. professor would harbor such deep resentment for the truth).
Myers is a wonderful example of an intelligent professor who, by way of his hatred of the Eucharist, has no respect for his Catholic students or co-workers. Send this professor packing. As a Catholic and an alumni of the University of MN, this man lacks an essential characteristic needed to be a Univ of MN employee, and that would of course be a basic respect for others.
As a devote Catholic I am deeply saddened by your recent statements. I respect everyone’s free will to believe what they believe but you have crossed the line from personal belief to attacking and degrading the very most important facet of my belief. I fully support your right to your beliefs and will gladly fight to protect those rights but please lets keep this a discussion. I can disagree with your beliefs but I would never destroy something you hold a sacrosanct like Darwin’s personal diaries for example just because I don’t fully agree with him.
that a scientist– someone in the business of seeking truth– is so utterly blind to it.
Do you find yourself amusing? I bet you do.
Your latest , about the Holy Eucharist , just makes you repugnant.Do you have RESPECT for anything, anyone, yourself? This is not a rhetorical question.
Why must you offend?I’m sorry that you are an atheist. I’m sorry that the Church hurt you in some way.
We will pray for you, your pathology is in need of prayer.“Love One Another ,as I Have Loved You!”
I wish to express my alarm and concern over the hateful comments of Dr. PZ Meyers concerning the desecration of the Eucharist. As a faithful Catholic and a trained cell biologist (MS Biochemistry, University of Idaho, Ph.D. Molecular and Cellular Biology, Arizona State University), I am deeply offended at Dr. Meyers’ intention to desecrate that which millions of Catholics across the country (and billions of Catholics across the world) hold as most sacred. I am certainly a believer in the freedom of speech. However, this hatred goes too far. The University of Minnesota, I am sure, values diversity in thought and in life. Dr. Meyers’ comments and intentions far eclipse academic freedom, free speech, and civility. How can he claim tolerance when he is being completely intolerant of Catholic belief and practice? He is targeting a specific group of people for their beliefs and is attacking them for the sole purpose of denigrating them. I don’t have a problem that Dr. Meyers would disagree with me about almost everything. The university is a setting where different ideas are to be weighed and debated. However, Dr. Meyers is only concerned with hatred and bigoted attack. I wonder what the response of the University of Minnesota would be if the group he was attacking were a minority, or Jewish, or Muslim, or gay? With the publicly expressed opinions and intentions of Dr. Meyers, how would one expect a Catholic student to be treated by him? Clearly as a parent and academic, I could never support anyone going to the University of Minnesota if these are the kinds of faculty members it employs.
Imagine, if you will, a steel ball the size of the earth.
Every 1,000 years, a sparrow flies by and lightly brushes its wing against the steel ball.
When those light brushes wear the steel ball down to nothing, eternity will have just begun.
That’s a long, long, long time. Some of us will be spending that time in happiness with God in heaven and some of us will be spending that time suffering with Satan in hell.
Showing disrespect for God and the Eucharist is a good way to end up with Satan.
What college did you attend that taught you to be so disrespectful? It does not bespeak of the dignity we would expect of a college professor.
ou are nothing but a coward. You would not choose a Muslim symbol to desecrate because you would be in grave danger. You pick a Catholic symbol because you know that Catholics will just pray for you.
Your actions constitute a hate crime. There will be no prosecution because hate crime laws were designed to put White Christian males in jail.
PLEASE Prof.Myers, Use your wonderful God given gift of learning to find out exactly what it is you plan to desecrate… NOT what you THINK it is!
I’m writing about your blog post from July 8 (“IT’S A FRACKIN’ CRACKER!”). This is not a piece of hate mail, and I’m sorry that you’re receiving hate mail. I don’t have a very complete understanding of the incident, but, based on what seems to have happened, while I don’t approve of what Mr. Cook did, I disapprove of the efforts to go after him, and I even admire your willingness to stick up for the young man — while not admiring some of the rhetoric you use while doing so – which I find in places to be needlessly abusive (and yes, I do recognize some on the other side are needlessly abusive, too). But what really concerns me are your proposals in your penultimate (“So, what to do”) paragraph. It’s as if your goal in writing that paragraph was to see if you could meet (and *perhaps* even surpass!) the stupidity and meanness of the worst of the examples you took to task earlier in your post. I had planned to argue to you that you should rescind that plan, complete with careful analyses of when and how we should take into account the beliefs of others that we consider to be false in deciding how to treat the people in question. But I’ve read some of your blog posts, and based on my sense of your character, I have faith that you need no argument from me here: If you just take a deep breath and objectively consider what you wrote, keeping in mind the many Catholics (and other Christian too, for that matter) who are innocent in this matter but whom you would be needlessly hurting by what you propose (even if their being hurt depends upon beliefs they hold that you take to be obviously false), I am confident you will be able to see the light. On the other hand, if I have read your character wrong (as I’m often inclined to do, being disposed to being overly charitable [perhaps even gullible] in my judgments of people, as many Christian friends have told me, based on my admiration for important aspects of Prof. Dawkins’s character), and you still think yours is a great idea after a little consideration, you are probably beyond the reach of the help of any argument I could produce, anyway.
Hey you cocksucker! I am not holy but I have respect for the religion. Go ahead and do what you intend to and then see what transpires, Ego te provoko, you worthless piece of tenured shit.
We pray for your soul. Jesus loves you, and He tells us that we are to love you too.
We feel sorry for you, that evidently you believe life is just about yourself and the “here and now”. What do you have to look forward to? Old age? What comes after that???
We pray for your conversion,
It is very rude to make fun of someone’s religion, even if you do not agree with that belief. Very sad indeed.
I wonder what has caused you to be filled with so much hate that it would drive you to these childish antics. One would think someone of your intelligence would find something more productive to to with his time.
I have no love for the Catholic church and don’t like organized religion. But I do have Catholic friends and coworkers and they seem like nice people.
If for some reason you are offended by the Catholic church then I suggest you go out and get thicker skin. I have learned a long time ago that being offended at every little thing does nothing but cause medical problems and a shorter life.
I read today that you made disparaging remarks about the holy Eucharist, which is the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ to every Catholic. Your remarks are extremely offensive, hateful, and immoral to say the least. Its hard to believe you could say such things rather than sticking to your area of study. Clearly you have a dislike for the Catholic Church and God for that matter. I sincerely pray for you this day that you will find God in your life. I hope you consider writing an apology regarding your remarks.
I think you underestimate the importance of mythology and ritual in the human condition. Yes, even your human condition. After all, your diploma is just a bit of cloth and ink, isn’t it. I don’t suppose you’d mind if I just whip one up in my basement and start teaching biology, do you? Oh that’s right, yours was consecrated by the Dean in a Late-Middle-Ages ritual. There is a lot of wrong in this situation, but you are also wrong. Please read some Joseph Campbell.
p.s., I’m not a religious whacko, I am in fact a VP of engineering and also a computer science graduate student working on my dissertation in theoretical computer science at night. I do attend church, but not Catholic; I personally don’t believe in transubstantiation. The communion ritual is an important part of the Christian church’s ability to propagate itself and has been effective for many centuries. As a biologist you should respect that.
Nice Job Mr. Myers!
Thank you for finally showing those Catholic jerks what’s what!!! You’re the man! You’re so smart! How did you ever figure the whole thing out! “Kick the pope in the balls!!!” Way to bring that holy roller back to earth! You must be like, the smartest person I’ve ever written an email to, you obviously have such a wide and deep understanding of history and the world! I mean….you’re a big important professor!!! At UM!!! That Catholic Church and its 2,000 year history has nothing on you man, you’ve got them pinned.
Don’t worry, you didn’t make yourself look like a totally ignorant fool. You looked smart! And witty! Sacrilege…that’s a big word, even for a smart guy like you, did you have to look it up? And don’t worry…you didn’t sound like a venomous hater, you sounded respectful and accepting of the Catholics, just like I’m sure you do with all people who have different beliefs than yours…..I’m going to go out a trash a mosque, and then key the first car I see in a parking lot that has one of those rainbow stickers on it, just so I can be like you!
I have just read with deep and heartfelt emotion of your intention to desecrate that which us Catholics call the Holy Sacrament of the Altar but which you call a “Frackin’ Cracker”. Please! I appeal to your better sense of respect for all to refrain from this act which is already causing me and those of the Catholic Community great pain. The intention to do this causes deep grief to those of us who hold the belief that the Host, once consecrated, is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Our Lord Jesus Christ. I am not asking you to believe this. Far from it. I am simply asking you to respect our beliefs and to refrain from committing this act of anger and utmost disrespect towards that which over 1 billion people world wide hold sacred.
Of course you are entitled to your views on the situation which occured last week in relation to a student taking the Host from the Church and “holding it hostage” and its consequences and rightly so, but please understand that we have our views too and, greater than views, they consititue the source and summit of all we believe. In carrying out the sacrilege you threaten upon that which we consider Holy, you can in fact carry out no greater act of disrespect and hurt. You hit right at the core of our beliefs which I know you understand we are entitled to hold and believe without any disrespect or violence. Perpetrating this act will hit us all very much and will cause many of us much grief. Is this truly what you want? Are you wondering how will we respond? There is only one way we can respond and that is the way of love and forgivness. There should not ever be any violent repercussions form anyone who calls themselves Catholic. We will forgive your actions yet we will grieve over them deeply.
I finish this mail literally on my knees, begging of you to reconsider your proposed actions and turn away from the feelings of anger you have towards us. You are certainly a man of respected intelligence and your position in life has confirmed this. Your position in the world may not change as a result of your actions but remember that every decision must be followed with personal responsibility and the carried memories that you have inflicted a very great wound upon many hearts.
If, at present as you read this, there are already any Hosts in your possession, please return them to their rightful place i.e. the nearest Catholic Church. Simply return them. If you don’t wish to apolgise for your actions, don’t apologise. Just know that if you do the right thing and return them, many hearts will be most grateful and will not forget your change of heart.
Re: communion wafer… You are one sick man. One day, eventually, you’ll have to face what you’ve said today in an honest light. No, really, you will.
Save yourself some grief. Resign, go find Ward Churchill and just hang out in the same slime hole.
It is disappointing to read of your recent comments. I doubt you would dare say such insulting things about other groups such as Jews, Muslims, or gays but do feel empowered to engage in such a tirade when it comes to Catholics!
The mark of an educated person is the ability to reason and think critically. It seems your education has been deficient.
As a Catholic, I am offended by the insulting and crass comments you recently made about the Holy Eucharist. I firmly believe that this “frackin’ cracker”, as you described it, is indeed the body, blood, soul and divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ. If I am wrong as to the nature and identity of the Holy Eucharist and it is indeed nothing more than a wafer, your comments are still needlessly crass, offensive and incendiary. On the other hand, if I am correct, then you are also guilty of a serious offense against God for even uttering such words.
I urge you to retract and apologize for your comments. I also urge you to exercise more prudence, restraint, respect and charity in the future — regardless of the target.
I don’t know you or what your life is like, so I don’t judge you personally. You may be both nice and decent, personally. But your comments were certainly not. I hope this was merely one of those moments we all have during our lives in which we look back and think “that was not one of my better moments.”
While I do candidly believe some sort of discipline is in order because of the extreme and public nature of your comments, I will also be praying for your well-being — both temporal and eternal.
You will discover soon enough what your blasphemy gets you. Since you have said your hateful lies where me and my friends can see them, it will be sooner than you think. You’ll wish you had a cracker in Hell!
Rude, hostile, insulting bigotry may get you more page hits, but it hardly contributes much to the public discourse on religion.
If your goal was to simply appeal to the lowest common denominator, then congratulations – you win the internets. I’m sure the suburban rich white teen “rebelz” that infest your comments section are tremendously proud of you.
Thanks for, once again, making it even more difficult to be an atheist in America.
I am in complete disbelief that Professor Myers is still in good standing at your university after his mocking and hateful rampage against Catholicism’s central and most sacred doctrine of the Holy Eucharist. I urge you as President of of UM-Morris to not only make him apologize for his remarks but discipline his hateful speech.
Please take a moment to read what Mr. Meyers has posted on his faculty page on your university’s website:
“Can anyone out there score me some consecrated communion wafers?…if any of you would be willing to do what it takes to get me some, or even one, and mail it to me, I’ll show you sacrilege, gladly, and with much fanfare. I won’t be tempted to hold it hostage (no, not even if I have a choice between returning the Eucharist and watching Bill Donohue kick the pope in the balls, which would apparently be a more humane act than desecrating a goddamned cracker), but will instead treat it with profound disrespect and heinous cracker abuse, all photographed and presented here on the web.”
Is this the standard we can expect from faculty members at your state university?
Mr. Myers:
How old are you? I cannot believe that a “professor,” representing his 1) college 2) country
3)state 4) family 5) himself…chooses to throw a temper tantrum which gets international attention. You will desecrate the Eucharist, huh? I live in Germany. We had lots of your ilk running around here 65 years ago…and you may have read about the consequences. Why don’t you desecrate the Koran, or a Torah? You do not believe in either of them either, but, like all cowards, you stroke your big Morris, Minnesota ego by attacking the last legal target of predjudice…the Catholic Church. Boy, you must have really been hurt at one time…maybe by someone in the Church. Grow up! Act like an educator. Swallow your pride, admit you said something absolutely stupid, and seek humility.
I hope you weren’t serious about what you were threatening to do. I disagree with many different beliefs of people but I respect their right to their beliefs, including your right to disagree. I would not wish you harm or want to deface your property or possessions. You may have wanted to get attention, and that you have. I ask you to reconsider the sacra ledge you proposed, if only because it is hurtful to others. I will pray for you.
I own 4 guns. I bet liberal vermin like you don’t own any.
Why would you be so insensitive to Catholics worldwide with your hateful ranting’s about something billions of people worldwide hold so dear? I just wanted you to know that your words cause me a profound sadness and I pray you come to feel heartfelt contrition over the pain your words have caused to so many.
Professor Myers is a disgusting, immature guttersnipe. You should put him in the unemployment line post haste.
If he had insulted Jews, or Muslims this wouldn’t even be a question…the bum would have been fired.
Come on down to Florida. We know how to welcome bastards like you…..with a bullet.
Try desecrating anything Muslim and see what happens.
Why are you against Catholics? I’m sure we don’t care how you worship. You must just be trying to get attention.
Just for your information: The main reason the Eucharist is so closely guarded is that they are coveted by those who participate in satanism and the black mass. It’s not a “frackin’ cracker” to them.
PS. I’m ashamed a professor from a Minnesota University would utter such depraved private thoughts.
I hope that you will consider the abusive and completely unnecessary behavior of Paul Myers in its true light. His hate speech is beyond offensive, even to those of use who are not Donohue-esque zealots.
Please try having the same respect for others that you expect (and demand) for yourself.
On his blog Pharyngula, PZ Myers asked that letters of support for him be sent to you. In good conscience, however, I can’t do that. Reading Myers’ writings on Pharyngula quickly convinces any reader who doesn’t share his faith in Darwinism that the man is an insufferable ass who brings discredit to your university. If you’re not ashamed to have him on your faculty, you should be.
Over the past few days controversy has erupted over your stated intention to obtain a concecrated host from a Catholic Church and to desecrate it live on the web.
Having read your original post on the subject I find the level of disrespect displayed towards Catholics absurd, it abounds with irational ad hominum attacks and falls short of the standards that students such as myself expect from those who teach us.
Whilst I can understand that some of your views of Catholics have been coloured by abusive comments from my fellow co-relgionists, it could be argued that you have intentionally baited them with your less than tactful comments and that you bought this torrent of absue on yourself.
Whilst I respect you as a professor in your established field, I would also ask that you respect my beliefs and those of my co-religionists
Aren’t you cool! Another big-mouthed Christian buster. Play with the Sacrament, demon boy. Everything will play out in the end.
Are you by chance a former Catholic?
What happened in your past to turn your soul to sludge?
You are in my prayers.
If you would like the controversy which your hateful anti-Catholic bigotry has initiated to go away immediately, all you have to do is recant your pledge to desecrate the Eucharist and apologize to the Catholics and others whom you have offended.
Hopefully you are man enough to do that. You’re in my prayers, Paul, for you must truly be a broken vessel. I am very sorry for you, and for the distraction from your academic career which your unfortunate vitriol has visited upon you.
Just because you do not appreciate the Eucharist, is no reason to assault what is so precious to me.
The Eucharist is not a “thing” , but a PERSON….Jesus Christ,.. who is truly present in that form of Bread.
Even though you don’t have the faith to believe it doesn’t take away the fact.
I don’t live in your house,….but that doesn’t give me the right to spray-paint your house.
Why are you so offended for the student???
Isn’t it REALLY your own pride and anger with God that you are not the man you are supposed to be???
Do you resent the fact that God lives whether or not you “allow” Him to?
The Eucharist is the MOST PRECIOUS POSSESSION EVER to HAVE. It is my MOST PRECIOUS
POSSESSION–and to desecrate Him is to mutilate me.
I understand how when people don’t understand something, they are scared of it. I’ve made that connection with you and the Holy Eucharist.
I’m disappointed that you would, as a respected professor, make hateful remarks that offend not only Catholics, but all people who hold thier sacred tradition and beliefs close to thier heart.
I’m disappointed with your actions, but I pray that one day your heart will be opened. You are free to believe anything that you would like…a joy of living in the United States, even if it’s that you believe the Eucharist is a frickin cracker, but your proposed hate acts against that “cracker” are a bit extreme in behavior.
I DONT SPEAK FOR ALL CATHOLICS BUT MOST OF US HAVE HAD SOME GREAT EDUCATIONS FROM GRADE SCHOOL TO GRADUATE LEVEL.
WERE EVEN RANKED SECOND BEHIND THE JEWISH COMMUNITY. WE RESPECT BILL THATS WHY HE SPEAKS FOR MOST OF US AND WE APPRECIATE IT. WE SEE IN YOUR COMMENTS THAT WE NEED THE BILL’S OF THIS WORLD TO FIGHT FOR US EVEN THOUGH WE CAN DO APPOLOGETICS FOR OURSELVES.
WE RESPECT OTHERS AND WE EXPECT THE SAME FROM ANYONE ELSE. ITS EXPECTED OF MOST PEOPLE IF NOT ALL PEOPLE’S TO RESPECT OTHERS. ITS TO BAD THE
WORLD IS LOOSING THIS RESPECT.
ANYWAY WE EXPECT WHICH DOESNT ALWAYS HAPPEN THAT OTHERS RESPECT THAT TINY LITTLE WAFER
BECAUSE WE RESPECT OTHER PEOPLE TRADITIONS. IT PROBABLY COMES FROM THE STUDY OF ANTHROPOLOGY AND ARCHAEOLOGY THAT I SAY THIS. HMM I GUESS AS A CATHOLIC I REALLY CAN SPELL THESE
WORDS WITH INTELLIGENCE AND UN-
DERSTANDING. I GUESS IM NOT SOME
IGNORANT CATHOLIC WITH A SUPERSTITIOUS NATURE. WOW I WONDER WHERE THIS CAME FROM?
MUST BE COMPLETELY EVEOLUTION AND NOT REVELATION. PERSONALLY
IT IS REVELATION.
You just don’t have the backbone to attack the Muslims do you? A bit of a castrati are we? Coward
As a practicing Roman Catholic, I am socked to hear that you have threatened to desecrate the Holy Eucharist. I find this as shameful bigotry against the Catholic Church.
I respect all mainstream religion in out fine country. I hope you will start respecting mine. There is no room for this type of behavior in our country. I urge you think about what is causing you to act the way you are to sincerely apologize to all Roman Catholics.
You are very misguided. Why you would chose to attack others beliefs and show such hostility is beyond me to understand. You need to show a little control and self respect. Any how I will say a few rosaries for you and perhaps you will get well again. Best Regards
May you come to know the love of Jesus in the miracle of the Eucharist. All are welcome!
Mr. Myers…If you have a problem with religion why not rationally debate it, instead of attacking the most important part of our Catholic religion, the “sacred host, the Eucharist” which to us is the “Body & Blood of Jesus.” Please, persecution and hate will not address your complaints and disagreements. Let’s act civilly…God bless…By the way, when I first read about your diatribe, I thought of St. Paul. I do believe God can work miracles…I’ll be praying for you…Please pray for me…
Hey, professor… I dare you to show the same sacrilege with “equal fanfare” to the Muslim religion. Perhaps you can dunk a Koran in a jar of urine and post that on the web with some funny comments? Oh wait…. I guess your version of atheism doesn’t include hating a religion that would surely respond by threatening your life and limb huh? You pitiful, immature coward.
You just made this Catholic’s prayer list. You may make it to heaven yet brother. Peace.
I think you should do the right thing and apologize for your hateful remarks toward Catholics. I don’t know what brought about your hatred, but I guarantee you, it will never make you happy. Turn it around.
if your college wont fire you ill come out there and take care of the problem for them
If you’re looking for something to desecrate, why don’t you try a Quran? I’ll even buy it for you! It won’t cost you a thing! Think of the attention you’ll get! What? You won’t do that? Why? Oh! You’re a COWARD! C’mon paulie, put on some big boy pants, cowboy up, grow some balls and just do it. You pick on a true religion of peace and won’t do anything to upset followers of a pedophilic so-called “prophet”. Count your blessings that Catholics don’t behead people, ass hole.
I’ll pray that this hatred leaves you.
You’re a bigot and a hypocrite. Try insulting Muslim’s and then I’ll support your biased attack against Catholics.
Dear Professor Myers:
Or, should I say, “intellectual pygmy” masquerading as a professor?
I undersatnd you want a Eucharistic host to desecrate and insult my religion” ? Well, professor, I shall be happy to provide you with one in person. Please name the place and time.
Since you are brave behind your blog, threatening Bill O’ Donahue of the Catholic League saying you would be happy to kick him in the balls, why don’t you try that with this Catholic veteran? I will be in Minnesota for the Republican convention and would be pleased to deliver your special host to you.
I’m really looking forward to coming to Minneapolis in September. Hoping you take me up on my offer…
You sound like a terribly insecure little man. I am astonished that the University would even employ you. By the way, who gives a rats ass about zebrafish? You ought to do extensive research about how an idiot like you survives to adulthood?
Sir, if any of what we’ve learned is accurate, you should be ashamed of yourself.
You are just another example of what is wrong with our culture; freedom out of control.
idiot.
After reading several of your blog posts, I find that you compose them with all the grace and wit of a third-grader who has just learned some dirty words. I encourage you to continue your Don Quixote-like crusade against religion, for the venom you spew does more harm to your cause than anything else. How can a man who supposedly lauds “reason” waste his time insulting a God he doesn’t believe in? Thank you for keeping the stereotype of the angry, bitter atheist alive. Kudos.
I am not sure what would cause someone to act so hateful toward Catholics and our Lord Jesus Christ. Others are angry at you, but I am very sad. I feel so sorry for you. One does not have to believe in Jesus if they choose not to. No on will try and force you to believe in Jesus Christ nor that the Eucharistic host is His body, blood, soul, and divinity. So why is it that you must try and stir up problems? I cannot believe that it is because your life is so boring. You must have been hurt by someone and for that I am sorry. I will pray for your healing and that you will not feel such hate.
GET A REAL JOB!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you for your comment regarding the desecration of the Eucharist. I am sure Jesus has heard it and will respond accordingly. It may hurt a little, but don’t worry, we Catholics will pray that you’ll still live long enough to repent. If you don’t apologize, we Catholics won’t be able to see you from where we spend our eternity. You won’t have a lick of a chance.
Your comments to Bill Donohue were ridiculous, dangerous (for you) and really not worthy of comment. But – well – since I like Bill and I pray for you – well – maybe someone should comment!
A Professor????
At a university???!!!
What a shame!!!!!!!!
Are you so starved for attention that you must take other folks faith and ridicule it? I know I should respond by prayer for you, but right now I am just puzzled. What is your purpose? Like anti-Semitism, bigotry, prejudice, etc., it’s folks like you who need a watchdog like Donahue. I am glad he is there. I hope like the rest of your ilk, you will be “taught” how inflammatory your words are, since you seem to be oblivious to any other intelligent reasoning.
I will try not to say anything that will encourage you and your counterparts in attacking the Catholic Church or the faithful. I think it’s so sad that you are ignorant and intolerant of things other people hold dear to their hearts. Let me give you an example.
I live in Kansas. Lots of jokes about that – I can take it. It’s beautiful here and I have no desire to live anywhere else. From the west side of the state where the July air can be hot and dry during the day and cool and calm at night, to the east side of the state where the towns are bigger, there’s more vegetation, more “culture”, and more people than cows. I’ve stayed in New York City, Washington, DC, Atlanta, GA, etc. I lived for a short time in Ft. Worth, TX. People in New York City are great at making jokes about Kansas, but they’ve never been here to know how glorious the lifestyle is. Most of the people I know here in Kansas are well-traveled; we know what “the big city” is like – we’ve been there, done that. But how many people in the city can understand the simple joy of sitting on the porch and waving at neighbors as they take their evening walk or how much fun a 4th of July celebration is on the town square? I have relatives who live on the east coast and it took them a week to relax and enjoy life; they were so keyed up. Even in Wichita (the biggest city in Kansas), people know when wheat harvest is and pray for good weather for the farmers. We pull together and we pray together. Catholic or Protestant, we hope the best for each other.
You on the other hand, seem to be happiest when causing other people pain or consternation. Why? What has happened to you in your lifetime that you are so bitter you have to attack another’s beliefs? We probably don’t want to go there. It just makes me wonder and feel so sad.
Catholics have not asked you to give us anything, so just let us be! Isn’t that what the United States is all about? If you don’t like it, maybe you should live somewhere else.
I just want you to know that I and my family will be praying for you. God bless you.
You could use a little more tact and manners in your current PR debacle.
Your first amendment rights do not insulate you from looking foolish.
Don’t like what you are hearing? Look in a mirror or videotape yourself before you go in public.
Catholics do not hate you ,but you are courting their indignation by your stupidity as your proposed
anti catholic sacrilege.
I see you love getting attention. Were you deprived of it as a child? Do you think your family would be proud of your puerile , offensive behaviour?
Is that how they raised you? You owe Catholics and indeed, all decent minded human beings an apology for your ignorant comments and antics.What this all boils down to in the end is that you are just a silly old man clamouring for public attention.
My hope is that, aside from mockery, you shall be deprived of it.
You are a monster. We need another Inquisition to root out idiots like you (and anyway, the Church only excommunicated heretics and witches, then handed them over to the state for punishment. We never executed them directly). How dare you insult the Lord God like that. Losers like you will suffer. I hope and pray that this will loose you your job and your career.
What have we Catholics done to you? Why do wish to desecrate the Eucharist? You probably know that we believe that the Eucharist is the body and blood of Our Lord Jesus Christ. To desecrate it would be the vilest act you could ever commit against us. Please respect our religion as we respect yours and everybody’s.
Myers, your opinion of God will be your undoing. There are more than 5 Billion people on this planet that belives God has given you and all others the capability to move civilization forward in His Name.
I can’t help feeling sorry for you, to desacrate God, Creator of the World will be delt with in His time.
Please do NOT desecrate the Eucharist in any way. Please, I beg you to NOT damage what is So PRECIOUS to me.
It is usually disillusion with unrelated issues that causes people to strike out. But that is exactly what Jesus came to address,..
and to offer healing and purpose.
If you only KNEW….
I will pray for you and for whatever healing of lost dreams you may be enduring.
I understand that you accept, on Faith, the unproven Theory of Evolution. I
haven’t made up my mind about it yet, as we haven’t quite found those pesky
“missing links”–I like to keep an open mind about all theories until one is
proven beyond all doubt. However, after reading your illogical and puerile
rants against Catholics recently, I’ve come to the conclusion that you must
be partially right about evolution. I don’t know about the rest of us
folks, but you are most certainly just a few swings away from being a
monkey.
Since you mentioned fatwa, I bet you don’t have the balls to descreat a Koran. They are a people of the Book also. Go ahead, I dare you.
You shouldn’t open your mouth and trash our beliefs. And if you have balls, go after the Muslim….or I forgot you scare. You are a very smart individual, build something with it, but don’t pull everyone down with you.
I believe the consecrated host is the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus Christ. I don’t care whether you believe it or not. In this country we have freedom of religion. I don’t approve of anyone taking my religion away from me.
If this is not the Paul Myers who is making news today for planning to desecrate The Eucharist, forgive me.
If it is, may God forgive you.
Only the general contempt for Catholics in this culture allows you to call it a cracker. It is in fact the body of Christ.
Would you degrade something Jewish? How about something representing the nation of Islam? Many web sites are alerting people like me to contact your employer to decry your blasphemy, and I just did.
Perhaps atheists like you are praying you have tenure…if not, I would be looking in the Chronicle for a new piece of chalk.
I am writing to express my concerns about Professor Myers announcement of his intentions to desecrate the Eucharist. Such a remark is not consistent with the cultural competency that an institution of higher learning should represent. As a psychologist, I am quite familiar with University of Minnesota’s academic reputation. Please take steps to defend the integrity of your institution by appropriately disciplining such bigoted, hateful, and culturally insensitive remarks. Fortunately, the Catholic religion teaches the virtues of peace, tolerance, and charity. Such threats against some other religions would be met with force, which is why I think it not a stretch to assume that Catholicism is subject to such cowardly attacks.
Why are your people so fowl towards Catholics?
Sir?; Shame on you! May God forgive you and I will pray for you. You should seek help soon
Does it make you nervous knowing that so many people are praying for you? You might just get converted!!
Why don’t you stick to your professional credentials and expound on something you know about and want to know about. Leave the rest of us alone.
We haven’t done you any harm in following our religion as Catholics. I don’t get the beef. Furthermore, you are a “public servant” paid by the taxpayers of Minnesota.
Your unprofessional and disrespectful attitude toward Catholics and the Catholic Faith looks really bad and the taxpayers have got to be wondering why are we paying this guy?
As a matter of fact I am wondering that very same thing about 90% of the professors in the United States who seem to have become experts on everything except what they are supposed to teach.
So please, BUG OFF.
thought you professors were all liberal, feel good about yourself and let others do what they want types. How come you are the total opposite? Talk about disrespectful, non liberal, non productive, divisive speech and thoughts. You should be ashamed.
In this world where everybody works for inclusion, you distance yourself and disrespect millions of people who, as Catholics respect the Host as THE Body and Blood of Christ ?
How dare you!
I am sponsoring efforts to get you fired for your comments on the CATHOLIC EUCHARIST – free speech has nothing to do with your idiotic & disrespectful comments – Now just go pick on the Muslims – or are you too afraid – you must be – you assinine PHD – too afraid to affront a religious belief that would terminate you. God Bless
DO YOU HAVE THE GUTS TO DO SOMETHING SIMILAR REGARDING THE MUSLIM RELIGION?
I DOUBT YOU DO, YOU KNOW THEY WOULD LOP YOUR HEAD OFF !
ATTACKING CHRISTIANS, ESPECIALLY CATHOLICS IS EASY FOR PEOPLE LIKE YOU !
Don’t you have anything better to do with your life? I would be interested to know what religion you were raised. If a person has a happy and fruitful life they don’t go out of there way to degrade anothers religion. – – God Bless America and you. – –
You want to desecrate my Lord & Savior?
Well, I’m going to say a prayer for you because, I know
you do not know what you are doing.
Sham on you……..
Snap out of it…..
I feel compelled to write you to express the offense and hurt I feel as a Catholic for your apparent disregard and callous for what I and other Catholics hold most dear — the sacrament of communion. I have no idea what motivates your hatred and scorn for the Church and her beliefs.
I can only hope and pray that whatever your issues are, some resolution can be found which dissipates the tension and prevents more words and possible actions which are offensive to many sincere believers, and, as one who has spent an hour each day in a Catholic church or chapel in prayer for the past 35 years feels confident to say, to the Lord himself.
I don’t really know who you are other than you don’t like Catholics or Jesus Christ. That is your right in a free society.
But I would like to ask you not to desecrate the Holy Eucharist. We Catholics know it is the body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of our Lord Jesus. Your threats to desecrate Jesus is extremely hurtful to us. Advancing a free, good, and charitable society comes from respecting others not mocking their belief and desecration what others hold dear.
Hello Bad Boy Myers,
You need help, what do you want? Jesus (only son of God) gave his young life to save every one, even you!
God the father is sad that you Mr.. Myers have sided with Hate.
As a good Catholic Man I must Pray for you Mr. Myers, who hates Christianity.
Hells gates are wide open for hateful people Mr. Myers.
Hope to meet you in Heaven Mr. Myers.
I find it hard to believe that there is such anti Catholic and anti God hatered being spued by anybody let alone supposedly ‘educated’ people. I will work to let as many people as possible know there are still people like you taking advantage of the freedom America offers. Eventually people like you get their just deserve. I hope you get yours sooner than later.
If you really think the Blessed Eucharist is just a “farckin’ cracker” then I challenge you to do a little scientific research…
beginning here -> http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/engl_mir.htm
Check especially this sight here, -> http://www.acfp2000.com/Miracles/eucharistic.html
if you have the balls and intellectual integrity to stand up to what you’ll find.In short Mr. Myers what you’ll find, if you are honest with yourself, is that you’re wrong. It’s not just a “frackin’ cracker”. It’s Him who made you.
You really need to get your head around what that means. In the mean time I’ll pray for you.
I was outraged to learn of your call to desecrate a Communion host. Why such hatred against the Catholic Church?
Would you do the same against the Koran and the Islamic faith or the sacred Torah and the Jews? I
Please do not offend Our Lord. I am praying for you.
You’re nothing more than a poor, pathetic little coward. You rant that you’re going to desecrate the Communion Host knowing full well that the worst that you’ll suffer are a few denunciatory editorials and maybe a censure or two. Oh! The horror of it all!! Do you want to demonstrate REAL courage by desecrating a religious symbol? Make an image of Mohamed (one serious affront to Islam) then desecrate it (another even more serious affront to the “religion of peace”). Of course, that would expose your person to actual, corporeal danger. What’s the matter? Don’t you have the stomach for real confrontation? You’re pathetic.
Bill Donohue defends the Catholic Faith and does a wonderful job of it. When he sees disrespect or irreverence, especially in the extreme, he takes action.
Your threat to desecrate a consecrated Host is a most vicious and hateful action for which you know in your heart you need to apologize.
Please retract your threat of sacrilege and apologize to those you have offended. Most of all, please apologize to your God and Creator for your blasphemy. He doesn’t deserve it.
Dear Little Paul,
It appears that you are a naughty little man and have been doing things you shouldn’t be doing! Shame on you!
Once you get your unique proclivities for sin under control, you will certainly have a greater appreciation for your own existence. Surely, your current brazen boast and desire to desecrate the Eucharist, stems from some unresolved childhood trauma. There are ways to find peace and forgiveness. They, that hurt you, do not represent the Loving Father in Heaven. Clearly, your hatred flows from inside and is affecting your very dignity as a human being.
You have been made in the Image and Likeness of God. The angry feelings you have cannot diminish this Truth. He created you for greatness and gave you intelligence. I challenge you to take that intelligence and go searching for the existence of God.
In the mean time, I adjure you to a life with honor and be a man that young people can admire, instead of an embittered curmudgeon, whining about how terrible things have been for you.
I will pray for you.
You are a very little man. I will pray for you.
I was wondering why you would want to do something that would be so painful to so many people. Anyway, whatever the reason, I will remember you in my prayers so that whatever it is that causes you so much hatred can be reconciled in yourself, before you hurt yourself as well as others.
You need to repent and give your life to God. You just may find yourself in “Hell” for what you have done to God’s church when you die.
I am a deacon in the Anglican Church. I want to voice my concern and disapproval of Professor Myers’ comments regarding his intentions toward the Holy Eucharist. I can only imagine the discomfort that this will cause his students who profess the Christian faith.
As a publicly supported university, the University of Minnesota Morris is to provide a safe learning environment for all of its students. While there needs to be a spirit of academic inquiry and freedom in this institution of higher learning, Professor Myers’ comments hold no academic value although they do create a hostile learning environment for Christian students. I can only imagine the turmoil I would face if I were a biology student at your institution and had to study under a professor who set out to make a mockery of my faith in such a manner. While I respect one’s freedom of speech, as a professor at your institution, Professor Myers has a responsibility to consider the impact of his words and actions on his students. I agree with others that what Professor Myers is involved in is nothing less than a form of hate speech.
I trust that you will take the concerns of the Christian community into consideration as you consider your response to this matter. Thank you for your consideration.
I want to thank you for reminding me how wonderful it is to be Catholic. Your anger toward the Eucharist makes clear to me how powerful It must be. I promise to pray for you when I receive Him tomorrow at Mass. I promise to become a better Catholic in response to your promise of desecration.
May God give peace to you!
If you want to have anti Catholic views, fine. do so on your own time.
I am emailing you to pray for you and that God may reveal to you His mysterious love and mercy.
Jesus, I Trust in You. Jesus, we trust in You. Jesus, in the most holy sacrament, have mercy on us. God the Father, for the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world. Eternal Father, we offer you the body, blood, soul, and divinity of your dearly beloved Son, Our Lord Jesus Christ in atonement for our sins and those of the whole world. Our Father, who art in heaven, hallow be Thy Name, Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven, give us this day our Daily Bread and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us and lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil. Amen. Hail Mary, full of grace the Lord is with thee, blessed are thou among woman and blessed is the Fruit of thy womb, Jesus, holy Mary, mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen. All Glory be to the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, as it was in the beginning is now and ever will be, world without end. Amen.
Fatwa? Is this the go-to accusation of those who believe Catholics are credulous, cracker-munching provincials? Your response to Bill Donahue was puerile bravado and begs the original question: why would an educator choose to denigrate the sacred belief of others irrespective of his own convictions? The vitriol you spewed regarding the student who came under scrutiny evinced a total ignorance of Catholic teaching and, worse, a reductionist mentality that conflates religious faith with irrationality. You are a prisoner, sir, of your strictured understanding. My condolences.
I do not appreciate you bigoted and religious intolerance of any faith or credible believe, especially the Catholic Faith. Your intent to obtain and desecrate a host is at least unbecoming of a University professor. A professor is supposed to show tolerance and respect for other viewpoints, let along a long standing and respected religion as the Catholic faith.
You indeed show your self to be a miscreant of society and certainly do not deserve to be teaching anything anywhere as far as I and millions of Americans are concerned.
Where did you learn this trash of hate from anyway?
May God have Mercy on your soul.
You won’t get any threats from me, unless it is to see that you loose your job you do not deserve.
Are you in love with yourself. Satan has tried for over 2000 years to destroy us (Catholic Church) and has failed miserably. You will, too. Saint Michael defend us in battle. Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him. Mary, Mother of God, protect your Church from those that wish us harm.
Hey, fella, we’re praying for you.
Your problems obviously run deep. It’s all very sad, but there’s only so much anyone can do to help you.
being that you are clearly an egotistical little man and I am loathe to give it to you but I still am compelled to say, it is not a “fricken cracker” to millions of Roman Catholics nor is it to me “Professor”.
If you are so brave, why don’t you steal a prayer rug from a local mosque and defile that?
Of course you wouldn’t dare do that because you haven’t any balls and the islamists would REALLY killyou, unlike Catholics…..You are nothing more than a typical liberal jerk from Minnesota…Your head is like the state you live in, full of holes.
You should be checked out by a very good psychiatrist. Your mind is indeed in trouble. You now have had your 15 minutes of fame. What next? You should be praying for your life.
Please respect people who believe with their heart and soul, of the transubstatiaton miracle at our Holy Mass each day of the week, the real presence of our Creator is being received by all of us who are baptized in the Apostolic Catholic Church, we believe in God the Father almighty and all the saints. We ask for the conversion of souls, and pray for you. Thank you.
I love America. It is the only country in the world where the intellectually inferior and sublimely mediocre can get an advanced degree. You prove the theory that it is possible to be educated beyond one’s intelligence.
Have a nice angry day!
You are really fucked now. Lock your doors at night, and check under your car before you turn the ignition key.
I would pray for you, but it is too late. You are damned.
I dare you to broadcast to the world your intention to show some real contempt for religion by wiping your backside with a picture of Mohammed and some pages from the Koran. You’ll get the world- wide fatwa you are whining about and the front page of every newspaper would have a picture of your decapitated body for all to see. Or do you only have the “courage” to insult those who you know would never hurt you (nasty emails notwithstanding) no matter how vile you are. For the record, I’m not a Catholic.
Jesus will always forgive your vileness; Mohammed will cut your stupid head off. Got guts or are you just another phony anti-Christian warrior ?
I am writing this to express my deep outrage and sorrow for your recent call for desecration of the Eucharist and the offer to post examples of this abuse on your website. This is truly a deep wound to our Lord, Jesus Christ who we believe is truly present in the Eucharist, as well as a very hateful act toward our Catholic faith. You would not dream to express such hatred toward Islam or any other religion, so why are you concentrating on mine? I am sure this does not agree with university policy or mission! I respectfully ask that you apologize for your hateful remarks and refrain from making more in the future. Perhaps if you educated yourself on the Catholic faith, you would understand better what a gift the Eucharist truly is, and I would challenge you to do so as a man who values education. I will pray that you develop more tolerance and understanding, and less hate and vindictiveness.
You deserve nasty email. You’re a jackass trying to draw attention to yourself. Grow up.
Funny how they threaten you and then, in the same paragraph, suggest that they’re so very peaceful.
If these little wankers are so impressed with militant Islam, why don’t they just convert?
I love you PZ.Let the games begin!
oh and since i am up on the top here i would like to remind the catholic readers here who keep crying “agression” and speaking of Threats,be sure to look your boy Donohue up on youtube with christopher hitchens.Watch Donohue request a fist fight within the first minute of speaking!
PZ dumped all his scrap irony on my yard,didnt he?
My irony meter exploded just around here:
“PS: I find it rather funny that so many people are incredibly tolerant (nice buzzword) until they feel offended. Then all tolerance goes out the window.”
Dang … gotta get a new one now …
@Rob Sterling
No one, no matter the deed, should receive such mail. If people disagree, then it may be worth it to stop reading each other’s blogs, but death threats?
We will know they are Christians by their love, by their love. Yes, we will know they are Christians by their love.
Sure, sorry but how is PZ trying to draw attention to himself?
Also, I’m wishin’ that they’d go away.
You do kind of get left with the impression that these Christians wish they had the guts to kill people and blow things up when faced with those who disagree with them.
Wow, if that doesn’t make you pay for your “crimes,” nothing will.
I couldn’t (well, wouldn’t) read more than a small percentage of that tiresome bilge.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Jesus H. Christ people…it’s a CRACKER…lighten the hell up!
I got bored halfway through the first one.
Funny how they threaten you and then, in the same paragraph, suggest that they’re so very peaceful.
See also: ‘We come in peace/Shoot to kill/Shoot to kill/Shoot to kill…’
Seriously, eyes bugging out particularly at ‘We need another inquisition’…
I want to believe that’s Herr Poe, at it again. Poe, man, is that you? Please tell me that’s you…
I wanted to write something meaningful and profound.
But…
…All this is over a cracker?
I…no.
You are a terrific human being. I hold your name in high regard in my little world. Keep up the great work.
“K is for “Kenghis Khan”; He was a very nice person. History has no record of him. There is a moral in that, somewhere.”
Harlan Ellison
Gee “Mister” Myers,
Those catholics surely must only recognize degrees and academic appointments in the Seminary, eh?
Maybe you should sign up to one of those web-based diploma mills and earn yourself a better title.
(signed) Dr. Marc Buhler, Ph.D.
(rotflmao – is there an echo here?)
I wonder if all those people really will pray for you.
Great site, great work, PZ. I have enrolled to study biology here in Germany, largely because your site has helped me realize that I love the subject.
Thank you.
Wow! I do not envy you right now, but I absolutely, 100% agree with your stance. This response is just unbelievable. How can these dimwits not see that this really is just a frigging cracker they’re talking about! They really don’t seem to get it!
Keep up the good work, PZ. I am totally with you!
The other day, I watching the South Park episode on Mormons. In the commentary, Matt and Trey talk about people saying that Mormons are silly for in believing Joseph Smith. They mention that it is no more silly than what other religions believe in, especially, Catholicism.
“Why are your people so fowl towards Catholics?”
Because they’re cuckoo for Jesus?
Because they keep ducking the issues?
Because it dovetails so nicely with skepticism?
Because they keep crowing on about how morally superior they are?
Because they keep robin the poor to pay the rich?
OK, I’m done. It’s like shooting pheasants in a barrel.
There seems to be a lot of confusion between your and you’re. Is this a catholic thing?
Z
There seems to be an epidemic of fatwa envy.
I love all the comments about the respect the catlikkers demand for their particular brand of lunacy, but go out of their way to demand repeated desecration of the Koran. Several of them volunteered to send PZ a copy of it.
What bunch of two faced tools!
Religious groups show their true colours and intent time and time again. Disgusting. And these people think there’s a special place for them, a reward for their good behavior in this life. LOL.
wow those emails are truly boring and vapid. trash indeed
Wow… That was some venom. I thought I knew something about hate mail… but no… you win.
@Anna – I didn’t see any death threats. There was one apparent NON-Catholic who said that Catholics ought to use a hollowpoint (bullet) on “PZ”, but a “death threat” is a first-person kinda thing. Most of the rest were trying to argue with him in a fairly open and peaceful way.
@Daniel Flores-Isla: “PZ” might as well be standing on his lawn wearing a clown costume screaming “look at me! look at me!”
One lesson I learned from my grandfather was that if you go looking for trouble, you’ll usually find it. I learned another from my grandmother, which is that it’s rude and cruel to offend people needlessly. Obviously nobody bother to teach “PZ” either lesson, and the result is that he’s grown into a smug jerk.
It’s utterly amazing how not one single Catholic understands the real issue in the slightest. This isn’t about cracker hating. This is about death threats and unnecessary harassment towards both the child and to PZ over something trivial. It astonishes me that none of these people can comprehend that.
PZ, you at least should be able to appreciate the humor in “Paul, why are you persecuting Me?”
By the way, did you really request over the air that somebody bring you a supposedly transubstantiated wafer from a Roman Catholic service?
My response to comment #1 is basically the same as what Mr. Sterling writes redirected back at him: Grow up.
My response to the whole “cracker” thing is One Man’s Body Of Christ Is Another Man’s Frackin’ Cracker.
Rob Sterling:
You’re wrong: “You are really fucked now. Lock your doors at night, and check under your car before you turn the ignition key.”
But I’m sure he or she meant it in the nicest way.
Don’t you know? It’s done out of love!
Hey rob sterling.
just curious.what was going on with your internet tubes that resulted in you skimming over the email that advised PZ to look under his car before he starts it?
Food for thought:
“If you cannot trust me with a choice, how can you trust me with a cracker?”
Rebuttal:
“It is not a choice. It is a cracker.”
I think I read that on the back of a semi trailer once. It was right next to one of those naked chrome ladies.
All that in the last two days?! Goodness. And they want to know why you’re mad at them?
Rob Sterling missed this one, too:
“Come on down to Florida. We know how to welcome bastards like you…..with a bullet.”
I liked this one:
“and anyway, the Church only excommunicated heretics and witches, then handed them over to the state for punishment. We never executed them directly”
Pilate didn’t wash his hands so neatly.
My favorite:
Surely anyone who is in love with one’s self is a tool of the Devil.
Dang. With all the ones who quoted the “frackin’ cracker” as highly objectionable, I wonder what they would have said if they had read the original title?
became quite un-scientific in what he would or would not do to a small ‘host’, and before photographers as well.
There were photographs?!?!?!?! Do tell.
Professor Paul Z. Myers is either insane or, if there is a difference, a rabid hater of the Catholic Church
I love this line. It makes me laugh.
Hmmm…lots of these idiots seem to think that PZ has it out for xtians only. They just don’t get it – he’s an equal opportunity deity hater…
Complainer: “If you want to have anti Catholic views, fine. do so on your own time.”
Fail!
Seriously. The Catholic League sure can stir up a bunch of people who have no idea what is going on.
The comments I’m reading seem to believe that the Defenders of the Host are the first group that ever considered complaining to the administration about PZ. He is an infamous atheist, liberal biologist at at public university. That just screams “target” to the anti-intellectual, Fox-news crowd.
A few tips:
1.) You are not the first and will not be the last people who get mad at PZ.
2.) PZ has tenure and good rapport with his students.
3.) What PZ says on scienceblogs he says as a private person, not as a public employee.
4.) If it weren’t for PZ, most of us would have never heard about UMN-Morris, its great deals, and great education.
5.) Trying to silence PZ is only going to make him stronger.
Holy shit, PZ, that’s some high-test crazy. The intermittent doses of similar sentiments I’ve seen on the (what are we up to now? four?) ‘crackergate’ threads have been quite funny. But lined up like this without interruption they illustrate a stark irrationality that’s extremely disturbing.
On the bright side, the ‘afterlife’ threats far outnumber the true death threats. However, the messages that do threaten violent retaliation are truly chilling. Please be careful, dear man.
Touched a nerve there, obviously.
If only people could save some of that vitriol for issues that really matter, like… no, what’s the point of listing them, we all know what they are.
“Oh no I don’t believe it
you say that you think you know
the meaning of love
you say that you really know
I think you should check it again
how can you say
what you believe
will be the key to a
world of love ?
Oh no I don’t believe it
you say that you think you know
the meaning of love
you say love is all we need
you say with your love you can change
all of the fools
all of the hate
I think you’re probably
out to lunch”
Zappa
Hundreds of ad hominems and half a dozen
death threats.
You must be doing something right PZ.
PS – I find it rather funny that so many people are incredibly tolerant (nice buzzword) until they feel offended. Then all tolerance goes out the window.
Well, quite.
Letter of support sent, PZ.
Judging from the mail these people are really confused about what needs respect in this world. Religion fails to work as advertised… again.
Most of these idiots demand we respect a biscuit, yet fail to see why others might find that illogical. Odd. From what I can see PZ has not directly attacked the Catholic faith – he has merely pointed out the irrational hysteria surrounding the supposed desecration of a snack food.
To all those who replied above – please show evidence that a wafer actually converts into the bodily flesh of your Messiah. Once this has been done we can continue this conversation.
As a “recovering Catholic,” to borrow the phrase, I’m rather amused by all this. I would bet that nearly none of these people have read your blog before, and are all up in arms because someone probably sent them the link, or some such. Hmm, Maybe you’ve gone viral, PZ? In any case, hate mail is to be expected, but the extra security and the letters to your university’s president are just silly. Many of these are more than happy to desecrate another religion’s tokens, but get up in arms about this. Phew.
Well, that’s convinced me to write a letter on your behalf. If academics cannot express themselves on non-university websites without censure of some sort, then we are in a sorry state indeed.
The New Inquisition
remix request:
can anyone do one of those youtube remixes with techno using Donohue’s “lets take it outside” comment from the Fox debate with Hitchens?
the reason i ask is,it would be frackin hilarious
To everybody who thinks there’s a death threat among those messages – a death threat would be phrased in the form of an imminent, first person warning. It wouldn’t be formed in an ambiguous, passive-voiced warning.
So the bottom line is that “PZ” has gone out of his way to offend tens of millions of American Catholics (and a billion or so outside the US) – WHO DID HIM NO HARM WHATSOEVER – and yet hasn’t received even one death threat. In fact, the bulk of the email he received represents an attempt to reach common ground or show him the error of his ways.
Yet in his ARROGANCE he presents it as tedious and nonsensical.
Also by the way, I was raised Catholic but don’t believe in the divinity of God, Jesus or anybody else. I just consider rude, crude, ignorant behavior such as “PZ” has exhibited to be a major problem in the U.S. – certainly a bigger problem than transubstantiation.
Really? All this for a cracker? Here’s an experiment I heard about a long time ago…
Make some “host” wafers, but include arsenic in the batter. Have the priest transubstantiate them.
If, as the nutjobs believe, it is now the body of christ, then the arsenic will have no affect on the eater.
Munch away!
If not, then you don’t TRULY BELIEVE the transubstantiation took place. End of story.
Thanks for reading!
Funny that, from a quick glance, I get more of an anti-muslim vibe, than anti-Myers. As #2 suggested, militant Islam sure seem to have left a deep impression on most of these writers.
You are right, very boring after a while. I think I got through the first 10 though. These people are nuts.
I admit I fizzled out about half way thru that mess, but I dont think I saw anyone who actually understod the original complaint.
Did I miss something ?
Thank you kindly
One gets the impression that everyone has a raging idiot hidden inside, and that many, if not most religious people make very little attempt to restrain it. I mean, honestly, what frothing moron calls for the destruction of the career and or life of a man simply because he thinks that calling the theft and smudging of a church wafer a “hate crime” is a ridiculous absurdity?
I dread to think of the radioactive fallout that would result if Professor Myers spoke ill of Thin Mints.
Talk about your false dichotomies!!!
Can’t get a falser dichotomy than that! LOL
#57:
HOW DARE YOU DESECRATE THE MOST BLESSED OF SUGARED WAFERS!!!!!!!!111111!1 ZOMG IZ PERZEKEWSHUN! I KAN HAZ SELFRITCHUZ INDIGNAYSHUN!
So… he disproved the theory that people know everything at birth?
I can see the headlines now.
Education Is Used to Acquire Knowledge Outside of Information Already Known
You forgot, “in theology.”
I only got as far as the third or forth death threat.
What is the difference between the church of christ and the church of the Antichrist? From reading the emails, nothing whatsoever. About the same as between a xian and moslem terrorist which is zero.
So what is the point?
In the interest of harmony, let’s focus on the positive, creative bits. For instance, I love that one of them used jihad as a verb – “Jerk like yourself would get jihaded”.
Also I’d like to point out that Dr. Myers hasn’t actually done anything other than to post a few words on his own blog. Just that. I don’t recall reading anything hateful, as some of those emails claim. I don’t recall him threatening anybody (as in any living person). Just a bit of harmless mockery, which we regular readers of this blog know and understand well. Sticks and stones, guys. Lighten up!
The rather longish one in all caps is probably the funniest thing I’ve read all day.
” HMM I GUESS AS A CATHOLIC I REALLY CAN SPELL THESE
WORDS WITH INTELLIGENCE AND UN-
DERSTANDING.”
This is after writing ‘appologetics’ and ‘loosing.’ Not to mention the grammatical mistakes. Sorry, but if you’re going to write something praising your own articulateness, you’d better proofread it. Better yet, get someone who actually IS articulate to do it for you. LOL.
Oh, and here’s my ALL-TIME favorite line from these idiots’ emails:
“…in case you do not comprehend how much your suggestion has upset people, it might be equivalent to your grief had someone threatened to run over your children…”
You have got to be FUCKING kidding me. Please tell this isn’t what these fucktards really think.
MY BRAIN HURTS!!
I just consider rude, crude, ignorant behavior such as “PZ” has exhibited to be a major problem in the U.S. – certainly a bigger problem than transubstantiation.
What about the rude, crude, ignorant behavior of religious weirdo’s trying to ruin someones life and sending death threats over a cracker?
I’m not as punny as Mark, but “Why are your people so fowl towards Catholics?” was my favorite too.
I always feel that way whenever someone presents me with a Samoa.
Rob Sterling
“I learned another from my grandmother[…] that it’s rude and cruel to offend people needlessly. ”
Rob Sterling
“You deserve nasty email. You’re a jackass trying to draw attention to yourself. Grow up.”
“You have got to be FUCKING kidding me. Please tell this isn’t what these fucktards really think.”
Tell me about it. Even if I did bruise that easily, I don’t know why I’d ever want to go and tell everyone about it.
“I dread to think of the radioactive fallout that would result if Professor Myers spoke ill of Thin Mints.”
Everyone knows that Samoas are way better. I blaspheme heartily!
The comment that really puts this whole thing in the proper light: “This is truly a deep wound to our Lord, Jesus Christ”
Really? I had thought the triune god was made of sterner stuff.
Scary stuff…
Personally, if I had no other method of wiping, any holy text would do.
I find it somewhat bizarre how many of your new found friends manage to invoke both the immense size of their religion whilst simultaneously invoking the Christian Persecution Complex.
I’m a Chemist, maybe someone should procure some sacrament cracker and send it to me -instead of PZ- and I will run a few experiments that will determine if it is indeed flesh or flour.
I’m sure, whatever the outcome, the religious will accept the results… as they did with the turin cloth fiasco. They did, right?
By the power invested in me by my Unitarian Universalist internet ordination, I hereby consecrate all bread-based products in the world. Your box of Cheez-Its is now officially a box of cheese-flavored God.
Dear #1 (but trying to be #2!) Rob Sterling,
It’s still just a friggin’ cracker, as tasteless and un-spirtual as your sort of asses are unintelligent.
Your sort of “christian’s” idea of “hate-speech” is as ridiculous as a Klan member’s idea of “reverse discrimination.” To ally yourself with a piece of vain, stupid excrement like Bill D. idetifies you as unworthy of more than one piece of ridicule (in hopes it will stimulate you to examine the hole that is your life) before a final dismissal.
With no respect to someone who links to a blog and then cuts of comments,
— BC
*reads #69* Oh…NO YOU DI’NT. You just got a JIHAD on your ass!
Yup, they sure like their crackers, these guys…I guess it’s hard to stop eating them once you get started.
Inignokt:
“Really? I had thought the triune god was made of sterner stuff.”
GOD IS A PANSY-ASS!
May God forgive you !!!
lol, look at all that attention.
There must be a way to make some money off these guys. PZ, automate an email reply that apologizes, asks for forgiveness, claims that you are changing your life, quitting your job, and turning to christ. All this requires money, of course, so if they could find it in their warm christian hearts please send $25.99 to [insert address here].
:)
(p.s. extra bonus: this income might qualify as non-taxable!)
Look at all these unenlightened assholes praying for PZ Myers’s conversion. Waste of effort if you ask me. Why don’t you pray instead for an end to world hunger and religiously fueled hatred? If you’re not part of the solution, well you know the rest.
Joan,
I forgive god for being a dumb-ass for hiding in crackers.
pz even took the time to edit out most of the names??? i really wonder if he ‘other side’ would be so decent.
well, with reason on your side it’s probably easier to be reasonable.
Amazing. I think I threw up a little reading this. For all the screaming, whining, shaming, and threatening, none of them really could deny that it’s a CRACKER we are talking about here.
OK. I had to stop reading and comment when I got to this one:
Would those be the same anarchists in whose torture and executions the Catholic Church had joyfully participated for the previous 50 years? Whose children were taken away because they hadn’t been baptised? Who suffered in their schools? Whose every movement for greater freedom, justice, or rationality was opposed by the Church? Whom they executed by the thousands during and after the War (and Revolution), with priests blessing the guns of Franco’s firing squads? Who, if they weren’t lucky enough to escape into exile, were imprisoned and forced to work as slave laborers, with the full participation of the Church? Who, if they survived, had to live in a confessional dictatorship where women had virtually no rights, even to leave a physically abusive husband, and gay men were subjected to brutal treatment?
Those anarchists? Yeah, I imagine they would have been happy to supply him with some fucking crackers.
Man, what the fuck? Thin Mints are the greatest cookie ever made, you attention whoring, hate-filled douche. They are the first and best of the cookies, and you need to respect them. If you ever leave them in a warm room so that the chocolate shell melts into a gooey mess then, so help me, you’d better lock your doors and check under your car before you turn the ignition. And you’re only saying this becaue people like me, who like thin mints, are so motherfucking peaceful. I should take you out back and kick your ass, you hate-filled hatemongering hate criminal. I don’t know why you’re so intolerant, and I’m going to have to hire a bodyguard now. I’ll pray for you because I love you.
Consider the following scenario:
You’re in a small room:
1) in one corner a man has an eight year old girl hostage and holds a knife to her throat
2) in the other corner another man has a blessed cracker and is threatening to crush it with a hammer
You only have 5 seconds to react; you can choose to save ONLY ONE – the girl or the cracker
Something tells me that the majority of people who sent those emails above would actually HESITATE before making their decision.
FRIGHTENING….
Made it about a third of the way through before it all started running together. I always think the weakest rebuttals are those that focus on spelling errors, but really folks a spell checker is not a tool of the anti-xrist. OK? Even Rush Limbaugh used to hawk those improve your language skills courses on his show and he was right on that one item, people do pay more attention when you present a clear and concise message. Of course, spraying spittle on your interlocutor is also considered rude, folks.
May read some more comments later, but it is kinda like a glass bottomed boat tour of a sewer.
Pax Nabisco
“Perhaps Mr Myers has deep seated animosity toward Christians and somehow seeks redress for his earlier years as a Jewish person (assumed) growing up in the wrong neighbourhood?”
HahhhahahahhhhhHHAHAHAHAH.. Ugh! My Arm!! (thud)
That’s funny, there is even one of those that actually makes some sense. (The one about the pet rock).
Wow. If the Catholics I grew up with, went to church with, served mass with, etc. etc. were anything like these motherfuckers, I’d have become an apostate at age 3.
What a bunch of assholes.
So, who’s going to be the first to assert that the death-threateners aren’t True Catholic™? Or will the Catholics be the first Christians to step up to the plate and acknowledge their hate-filled tendencies?
This one pretty much says it all:
“Perhaps Mr Myers has deep seated animosity toward Christians and somehow seeks redress for his earlier years as a Jewish person (assumed) growing up in the wrong neighbourhood?”
Was that quote taken from [email protected] by any chance?
PZ, thank you for bringing such idiocy into the spotlight. As many before me have said, reading the drivel of the offended religious is getting boring, and makes me a sad panda.
I’m sure you are probably yawning by this point, at their repeated points (and ours!). I’m exhausted trying to keep up with 1/10th of the information being posted about this, and of course none of it is being personally directed at me (except in the most general of ways), nor at my inbox.
Best wishes. I’ll keep some PZ beer money on me at all times, on the off-chance that I have a chance to buy you a brew some day and let you just forget about this phoophraw for a while.
Keep up the good fight. More importantly, keep up the *right* fight.
i’m sure someone beat me to it, but @ Rob Sterling: are you so insensate as to suggest that someone posting on their OWN BLOG their OWN FEELINGS is somehow trying to “draw attention to themselves”, while you come and post aggrieved, snide, weak smack talk and you’re NOT DOING WHAT YOU SAY HE’S DOING?
Are you that stupid? Wait…you’re the only one who can’t see what a moron you are. It’s sad, really.
I rather like the one that says “We need another Inquisition to root out idiots like you” — at least he’s honest.
I should mention that this is maybe two thirds of the negative mail I received, but that just eyeballing it, the amount of positive email is about 3 or 4 times the total telling me they’ll pray for me or shoot me..
Bill Mintohue: that was way funny. Good job. Eleventy billion points for you and a bonus life. Plus the BFG 9000 for good measure.
I am just amazed. They really believe that it is the flesh of Jesus. So what do they do? Eat it! I thought there was a taboo against cannabalism.
If the wrong neighborhood that the young Jewish PZ Myers grew up in was, say, Berlitz in 1243 then, yes, I could understand why he would have an itty bittly little chip on his shoulder about this.
Bloody Christian Taleban morons. They simply cant afford a sense of prospective and believe in the literaly in their holy books
IT’S A FUCKING CRACKER!
Is it ok to incinerate it? what about throw it in the dump?
This one forgot to add, “My dick is bigger than yours and I can drink you under the table. NASCAR FOREVAH!”
I’m curious how PZ’s supposedly drawing all of that attention to himself. Let’s see.
1) He posts, on his blog, which is made for the postings, about the cracker fiasco. No, that’s not it..
2) Bill Donohue points out his blog and the links to it (apparently twice now). No, not PZ there…
3) Thousands of people comment on the issue, requiring more posts, just for maintenance reasons be opened..Still not there..
4) Radio stations and newspapers ask him for interviews because of all the attention the kerfluffle is getting. Don’t think that’s him either…
4) People ask him to post the letters he’s been receiving and PZ obliges. Don’t think that one counts either.
The only ones I see drawing attention to themselves are Donohue, making press releases, and people who like chatting about this mess. Unless I’m missing something. Anyone?
I have to admit that the Catholics have lost by winning. They have demonstrated that they can sink as low as fundies which is an amazing accomplishment but not a positive one.
And Myers has won. He has just proved that the difference between a Catholic terrorist and a Moslem terrorist is zero, nothing.
Oh well, it will be easy to head on back to the Dark Ages. They seem to be just barely below the surface anyway.
Investing that much meaning in any object is frightening. And it’s wrapped up in such nasty revenge fantasies. But it’s all done with love so it’s ok.
That is a large volume of stupid in them there emails.
I think I lost IQ points just scrolling through it.
I seriously doubt they would, room101. Deep down inside, they know it’s just bread. The average Catholic gives little more than lip service to the tenets of his or her belief. It’s only because they feel they’re being persecuted that they’re all up in arms. I guarantee half these fuckers are only Catholic for an hour each Sunday (a few extra on holidays), on the census, and when someone dares to question the authority of the Pope.
Blessed are the poor, but since churches are already blessed, there’s no harm in gilding them with stolen Aztec gold, right?
“Turn the other cheek” is a Christian saying, is it not?
Chin up, PZ. You’ve done nothing wrong.
I’m still trying to figure out who, what or where is the victim.
“…and let him know that 21st century people don’t go bashing other folks religious beliefs.”
It’s odd, I find I have no problem bashing everyone else’s religious beliefs. I have also found that most religious people have no problem bashing my belief in the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Bill Montahue @87: CLASSIC!
You forgot, “in theology.”
Wait, is that like the fortune cookie game? It’s all funnier if you add “in theology” to the end?
I find it amusing that they’ve used their imaginations so much – PZ never actually said how he would desecrate the cracker. For all we know, he meant to put it on a desk and make it listen to a biology lecture. Or maybe put it in a tank with a squid and see what would happen.
Those people are so ridiculous. I can’t believe they’re getting their panties in a bunch over this. I still don’t see what the big deal is.
The only thing that came to my mind when I read those emails was ‘crazy’.
I liked the one that asked “didn’t your priest show you enough love when you were a boy?”. That’s a good one.
I find it interesting that many of these people choose to pray for you. At the very least, this should server as further confirmation of the impotence of prayer.
Also the whole daring you to desecrate the koran, in the kind of tone that says, “I won’t threaten physical harm, but I will not be rushing in to help you should another group do so. In fact, I kind of wish this harm upon you, in a passive-aggressive fashion.”
I have a couple of questions:
* Whenever I eat something, some of what I ate tends to get stuck in my teeth (hence the need for brushing). If I eat this cracker (aka Eucharist) and some of it remains stuck in my teeth as I leave the church, would I be kidnapping Jesus?
* If the Church can do the magic of turning a cracker into a body, why can’t they have some sort of auto-magic that turns the body back into a cracker when someone tries to leave a church with it? That would seem to me the best anti-kidnapping mechanism there is.
Re: Chayanov@9
“You do kind of get left with the impression that these Christians wish they had the guts to kill people and blow things up when faced with those who disagree with them.”
It’s not a matter of guts- how much “guts” does it take for a Wahabist in Saudi Arabia to stone a middle-aged woman for witchcraft? What these Christains (no typo) wish for is a non-secular government that wouldn’t punish them for smiting a heretic.
I think I can help all of you–
Repeat after me:
It’s not a cracker, it’s the body of Christ.
It’s not a cracker, it’s the body of Christ.
It’s not a cracker, it’s…
Keep that up for six or seven years. Do it with your children, the younger the better. It’s a family thing, you know!
Am I still allowed to twist the tops off of Oreos?
I don’t want to make jesus cry.
I always used to wonder about the whole holy water thing too – maybe somebody can answer some of these:
If I dilute holy water (HW to save typing) with ordinary water, is the mixture still holy? If so, how much? Less holy than undiluted HW, or the same? If less, then what actual difference would that make, in terms of its healing power, or whatever? And how would anybody be able to tell HW from diluted HW, and from ordinary water?
Does HW stay holy forever, or does it have some kind of half-life? If it stays holy, then all the water that’s been holified all these years is still sloshing about, and we’ve all probably got a certain percentage in our bodies, right?
Is there a limit to how much water a priest can holify at a time? If not, then why not just bless the whole ocean and be done with it?
If I freeze HW do I get holy ice? If I boil it, do I get holy steam? If I electrolyse it, do I end up with holy hydrogen and holy oxygen? (Wow! What would breathing holy oxygen be like?)
I could go on…
lol
remember folks,and you can quote me on this,the only “noodley appendages” are the ones Ceiling Cat is watching being masterbated
Wow — I got through about 5.
Kudos to you for getting through enough to find choice quotes, copy and paste, and then post.
I… I… I had no idea Catholics had it so hard! Constantly under attack, and all they want to do is quietly practise their faith and not impose it or their values on the rest of the world! :(
How could I have been so wrong all this time? Now I know next time I read about some bishop telling people not to have their daughters vaccinated against HPV because it’ll turn them into wanton little hussies, I’ll know it’s really PZ Myers trying to give the innocent Catholics of the world a bad name!
Shame on you, PZ Myers, for getting me to think that the Vatican does its damnedest to ensure that condoms aren’t used to combat the AIDS epidemic in Africa! Shame!
Shame on you for making me think Ratzinger has called same-sex unions “immoral, unnatural and harmful” or said about them “To vote in favour of a law so harmful to the common good is gravely immoral”!
Shame on you for making me think that Catholics are hypocrites who criticize and demean to their heart’s content, but get outraged when their ridiculous superstitions are called what they are!
SHAME!
One of those e-mails asked you if you see a soul when you look in a mirror. I’ve no doubt you don’t, just ask I don’t see a soul in my mirror. You with your “reason”, “reality”, and “outrage over a young man receiving death threats because of a cracker”. What about the unreasonable, unrealistic Catholics who threatened his life? Huh?
But seriously, Catholics. AIDS in Africa is epidemic. Some good sex education and condoms would go a long way toward alleviating the suffering if you’d just get your collective heads out of your Dark Aged asses. And no, I’ve no problem pointing out that Mohammed married a six-year-old then consummated that marriage when she was nine, which would pretty much make him a pedophile by today’s standards. Though in his favour, his followers don’t ritually eat him.
#118 said: Am I still allowed to twist the tops off of Oreos?
I don’t want to make jesus cry.
And release his Creamy Goodness? The Man would probably thank you heartily.
The President of the Unites States just wadded up the planet and threw it into to cosmic garbage can and these hand-wringing nutjobs are sobbing over the communion wafer.
It’s Jared Diamond’s Collapse all over again.
Brownian, OM:
Even though Rob Sterling has been a jackass and demonstrated that he can’t live by the rules he believes should be imposed on everyone else (among other things he’s drawing attention to himself by providing a link to his own blog), he may have a point that PZ Myers has not received death threats. He may be technically right.
Does that mean that these threats should not be taken seriously, though? Furthermore, even if they may not technically be death threats, shouldn’t any threat of violence be taken seriously?
What sort of rediculous straw-man fallacy are these people pulling to constantly reference “you wouldn’t do that to a Koran! SUCKER I JUST BURNED YOU RIGHT GOOD!!”.
Idiots.
I am supporting you PZ – you are a good person and your opinions are perfectly logical – fuck religious idiots
I get a sense of wistful longing for the militant Catholicism of yore, seeing all those references to the Koran.
Heehee.
Again, tons of the cravenly, cowardly misappropriation of the word “bigotry” to describe criticism of their IDEAS… something which can not be bigotry.
Catholics, get over yourselves. YOUR ideas are subject to criticism in the same way that any others are, and this is not, can never be bigotry.
ALL ideas are fair game for scrutiny.
Brownian @107:
“I seriously doubt they would, room101. Deep down inside, they know it’s just bread. ”
Yes, I know that you’re right, brownian. I should have thought that through. I need to stop thinking that people actually are (or do) what they claim to believe.
I’m just tired of hearing these idiots claiming that what PZ did was in any way equivalent to the threat of physical harm to someone.
#52 Rob Sterling:
You are really fucked now. Lock your doors at night, and check under your car before you turn the ignition key.
Come on down to Georgia. We know how to welcome bastards like you…..with a bullet.
Would you consider these lines threats? What if someone posted this to your blog, or emailed them to you? Would you brush it off as unimportant, or would you go batshit and try and get the senders arrested? Rhetorical question really, we both know the answer. Hypocrite.
People are stupid.
Dang it, my comment didn’t post correctly.
That would be Amy, last thread, AFAIK.
Carlie @ 111 wrote “PZ never actually said how he would desecrate the cracker.” That’s the most mind-boggling thing of the whole hate crime accusation! When I read it, I thought he was going to *gasp* eat the thing… What could be more “horrible” than an atheist eating a cracker…?
PZ
You’re a brilliant scientist but you’re a pathetic communicator.
Obviously people take you quite seriously as advocating desecration of their holy objects. If that’s what you calling for (I know it’s not) then you need to make that clear. If you’re engaging in satire then you really need to make that clear because apparently a whole lot of folks don’t appreciate your attempt at satire.
Come on PZ. You’ve obviously got a huge soapbox. A little clarity would go a long way to putting down a lot of negative publicity against atheists.
On the other hand perhaps you like the attention. Unfortunately that would make you somewhat of an attention whore. (Yes, folks, I understand that I’ve just engaged in my own little bit of attention whoredom.)
Hey, I’ve got a query:
Has anyone suggested a ‘Cracker Challenge’, along the same lines as the blasphemy challenge? If it has been suggested already, apologies, but I find I don’t have the wherewithal to comb thru 1000’s of comments like I used to.
Cracker has a whole new meaning, now.
Letter of support (and, I flatter myself to think, quite a good one) sent, Prof. And I’m in England, for fuck’s sake.
Catholics want to feel persecuted like Jews have been so bad it’s pathetic.
@St. Michael
Indeed, none of these people use the example of desecrating pirate regalia. It makes you wonder if they don’t consider that something to be offended about.
@mr-zero: Well, obviously I didn’t think this instance was ‘needless’.
@Garth: So everybody who doesn’t agree with you is stupid? You’re a model of circumspection and humility.
One of the things people often learn as they grow up – though not many of the denizens of this blog, apparently – is that even smart people are often wrong. And once someone accepts the fallibility not just of himself but also of the people he looks up to, humility is a common consequence. I don’t believe in God but I learned that in Catholic Sunday School.
Most of the comments on this blog seem to be people trying to reassure themselves of their intelligence by asserting intellectual and moral deficits of Christians. Which is not surprising because it also seems to be “PZ”‘s motive, and it’s more than a little pathetic.
#136 Ron in Houston
Does it really fucking matter. Satire or not, people are getting death threats and insults and physical assault over a CRACKER.
It’s Jared Diamond’s Collapse all over again.
Had to comment just for this:
OMG YOU READ IT TOO!!!!1!ONE!!
Yeah, that book kept making me think “Oh shit, that’s US”.
Oh, I stand with PZ on this. I don’t always but seriously, no secular, pluralistic society can criminalize blasphemy.
The more I read, the more I realize that “I will pray for you” is just a euphemism for, “Fuck you!”
It’s always said in the same way, the same tone. And it usually ends the conversation.
I don’t know why these Catholics are praying for Myers conversion.
After their display of mindless, homicidal frenzy as moslem terrorist clones who would want to be one? I bet this will cost them some members who were apathetic or on the fence. or even merely sane and intelligent.
What. The. Hell. This is even worse than threatening to kill over some cartoon in a Danish newspaper… how truly warped must these folks’ minds be?
By the way, I love the fact that one of these guys tried to “prove” the sanctity of the Eucharist with a web page describing supposed Catholic miracles from the 13th century. How’s that for empirical evidence?
From reading some of those things, it seems these Catholics are extremely jealous of the Islamic way of getting things done and are pissed off that Catholicism doesn’t allow them to use violence to get what they want. At least not anymore.
Retardation must exist as a wave and a theist. A self propagating wave that knows no bounds.
*salutes #23*
“Fatwa envy.” Classic.
The more I read, the more I realize that “I will pray for you” is just a euphemism for, “Fuck you!”
Oh, it totally is. It’s one of the biggest put-downs in the Christian arsenal. It also often means “Wow, sucks to be you, I’m glad I’m so much better than you are!” Its corollary is “How can I pray for you this week?” which means “Hand over all the good gossip about yourself now, or I’ll go around telling everyone else at church that you’re backsliding and not fully entering the Fellowship of Believers anymore”.
The doubletalk in churches can be breathtaking.
Calladus (#144):
“Oh, yeah, well I’ll pray for you too!”
“Yeah, well, I prayed for your mom last night!”
“Shut your pray-hole, or I’ll pray for yo’ sister until she’s like, ‘Oh God oh God oh God oh God’!”
I don’t see how the word “hypocrite” applies here. I’m pretty sure that PZ’s stance is that atheism is the default (Russell’s Teapot, people!), and that the alternatives are laughably unsubstantiated, and so he laughs accordingly. I don’t seem to remember him ever calling for “tolerance” of atheism as just another stripe in the rainbow of handed-down beliefs, nor for reverence for its symbols, as if there were anything equivalent to a magic God cracker in “Atheism”.
A little scary how many there are?…
It’s a good thing PZ didn’t insult an Oreo. Just imagine the outrage from all the fat bastards sitting in front of their computers right now..
I have to agree with all those who have previously commented on the militant muslim-envy in the quotes above – it’s pretty scary.
On the other hand, aren’t muslims so used to being insulted that it’d take more than PZ insulting their diet to get them all riled up?
Here’s the Official Guide to Christian Cliches and Phrases
astounding levels of stupidity. perhaps you should send them all primers on basic logic and grammar, and we can all ‘pray’ that they read them. sounds like a bunch of home-school “professors” and used car salesman with nothing better to do
Why is it that nobody comments on teh emails like this on:
Your posting on your website titled “It’s a frackin’ cracker!” was both rude and insensitive toward the beliefs of millions of people. Your opinions about whether or not the Eucharist is actually God are your own, and I respect your opinion, but desecrating another’s sacred and holy object is not at all respectable. Ripping apart the Eucharist for those of the Catholic faith is equivalantly worse than force-feeding a cow to a Hindu, or displaying pictures of Allah to insult the Muslim community. You do not need to act like an ass to express your beliefs. I request that you refrain from treating my God in such a disrespectful manner; in case you do not comprehend how much your suggestion has upset people, it might be equivalent to your grief had someone threatened to run over your children. Your opinions are your own, but they don’t give you license to do whatever you please. I hope your research in the biological field continues to be successful and I thank you for your time.
It’s a moderate response that in no way threatens Dr. Myers. Indeed, the worse it does is call him an ass. It’s a polite request for Dr. Myers to grow up and not act like a childish jerk. So how come nobody is commenting on it? Probably because it disproves some people’s fondly held opinions that all people with religious beliefs are violent, hateful wackos.
Now I like reading Dr. Myer’s blog every day, and I agree with his opinion on Creationism and Intelligent Design. I cheer every time he manages to show the Discovery Instute being the fools that they are.
But in this instance, I think Dr. Myers is just acting like an insensitive jerk and lowering himself to the contemptible level of many of the creationists one sees in talk.origins or alt.talk.creationism who so easily slip into ad hominem arguments.
It seems like Dr. Myers has not learned the old adage that starts “You catch more flies with honey…”.
I’m starting to think that fatwa envy is better than my attempt at a coinage, Koran envy. Of course, it will be up to an online poll to decide.
Ron in Houston, #136, wrote:
Ron, if you realised what PZ’s intent was, and looked at the number of posts here, the number of posts on other blogs, and the number of news stories which are now informing people all over the world of what has happened, you’d realise that he’s a communications genius.
Here’s a hint: it’s the same reason Dawkins’ book is called The God Delusion and not The God Belief We Don’t Agree With.
PZ, you may be taking over as “The Most Hated Atheist” since Carlin has died and Dawkins hasn’t come out with an anti-god book for a while.
Don’t forget your old friends. We hate religion as much as ever.
@#28
“I learned another from my grandmother, which is that it’s rude and cruel to offend people needlessly… [PZ Myers has] grown into a smug jerk.”
I’m guessing he ‘needed’ to be called a ‘smug jerk’?
[Or have I (once again) been taken in by sly satire?]
Mother Whore!! It’s just a frackin’ cracker!!!
“Yeah, well, I prayed for your mom last night!”
Blake, when I CAN’T STOP LAUGHING all through freakin’ church this week, it will be all. your. fault.
Ron, in case you hadn’t noticed, the biggest result of this is that Catholics are exposing themselves to be unhinged loonies. (Well, SOME Catholics, I guess is more fair)
If PZ’s image is tarnished in the eyes of said loonies in the process, indeed if all atheists’ images are, I think that hardly matters.
Rational people can all see this for what it is – lunatics practically rioting over a cracker, and a man unabashedly (and maybe in some eyes rudely) pointing out that fact.
Better to be seen as somewhat rude but rational than as insane.
As for the irrational people and how they see this, who cares. You can’t influence crazy.
Rod Sterling, please take your inability to read somewhere else. I’m not a teacher, and thus there’s no reason why I should waste my time helping you to do something your wise ol’ Granny was too busy fillin’ your head with Farmer’s Almanac-type wisdom to ensure you knew how to do.
“I seriously doubt they would, room101. Deep down inside, they know it’s just bread.”
I don’t know, Brownian–back when I was Catholic and attending Bible Study, one of the women there said she’d seriously agonize over a situation similar to this: namely, if a man with a gun pointed to her kid’s head told her to renounce god or he’d shoot.
A depressingly, completely-true story.
What’s the deal with Catho-apologists frothing about Koran? Should PZ be “balanced” in his religion ‘reviews’? Wow, retardation galore even in the world’s most “advanced” nation!
My eyes started to go cross after number 6…too much of the same drivel.
PZ, I feel sorry for you and pres. B’s inboxes.
Hopefully the average lifespan of a troll will keep the inanity to a subtle roar over the weekend.
So how come nobody is commenting on it?
Ok, I will. I obviously have nothing better to do on a Friday night.
in case you do not comprehend how much your suggestion has upset people, it might be equivalent to your grief had someone threatened to run over your children.
If your grief over a cracker being taken back to a pew is equivalent to someone threatening to kill your children, your religion has messed your shit up more than ought to be legal, and your sense of morality is totally fucked up.
There, better?
Amongst the more reasonable criticisms, there still doesn’t seem to be any admission that the response in Florida was perhaps a bit overboard.
…”Shut your pray-hole, or I’ll pray for yo’ sister until she’s like, ‘Oh God oh God oh God oh God’!”
(Holds sides painfully…)
Can Ah Get An Ay MEN bruthahs ‘n sistahs?
“If that is the case then Christians everywhere apologise and assure him we do not hate Jewish people but love them as elder brothers and sisters in Christ.”
Which is why we’re totally okay with the “holy” Zionist holocaust of the Palestinians, but we fuckin’ hate our younger brothers and sisters of Islam, right?
Or, just possibly, it’s because (a) we don’t actually hold that opinion, because we have enough religious folk in our social and familial circles to know otherwise, while (b) it’s not the kind of response worth worrying about.
Don’t you read comic strips?
And as long as we’re reducing both our capacities for critical thought and our understanding of the human condition to old adages befitting bumper stickers, how about the one which goes, “Well-behaved women seldom make history”? I admit, there’s an analogy involved here.
PZ, these emails are offering you an opportunity to really make your point. Most of these people seem to
thinkhave been told by Donohue that you have a specific mad-on for Catholics, beyond the Webster Cook issue. Obviously, anybody who thinks you balk at criticizing Islam is a CL ass-puppet who can’t be bothered to actually search your site for posts like this one. Perhaps if you rose to their challenge and posted a Muslim blasphemy, you might at least get your point across that you don’t play favorites when calling bullshit bullshit.Three words that apparently nobody understands: prejudice, hatred, bigotry. Ideas are not people.
Blake Stacey, that was praying funny. In fact I’ve had a good few chuckles at all of this madness in the last couple of days. Cheered me up no end!
Cory Albrecht reminded us of the old adage: “You catch more flies with honey…”.
I think it was a character played by Tommy Lee Jones responded to that by saying, ‘Who wants flies?’
I’m loving this whole controversy. Pharyngula has struck a nerve!
Much of this hate mail isn’t particularly vitriolic. In fact, many of these people are probably very reasonable people otherwise which demonstrates how bizarre an effect religious belief has on society. I don’t think even PZ would argue that most Catholics are deranged, even if the belief in the eucharist is indeed deranged. But because it’s a part of someone’s faith, how dare we criticize it. It’s amazing to me how all these people are able to throw their rationality out the door for this one (absurd) thing.
IT’S A FUCKING CRACKER!
It amazes me how many of these writers are incapable of recognizing the fundamental distinction between respect for the person and respect for the idea.
The former is a fundamental tenet of basic human rights and dignity, the latter is not a right at all. Given the choice of respecting a belief (such as the belief that, say, all members of group x deserve to be killed/stoned/converted/shown the “error of the ways,” because a much-translated and heavily-edited old text declares it so) or respecting the individual humans involved (the rights of the individuals in question to be free from being killed/stoned/converted/etc), I would hope that a basic respect for humankind would lead any sensible person to err on the side of the latter. To hold respect for an idea above respect for the individual is to grant certain beliefs the leeway to impose these ideas (and their direct behavioral antecedents) over basic individual sovereignty – essentially, allowing the beliefs of one group of people to dictate the rights and actions of another.
Contrary to what the most vehement of apologists writing in to attack Dr. Myers would like to believe, no one individual has the right to claim that their ideas must dictate the behavior of any other individual, no matter how “deeply held” and personal these beliefs may be. Simply put: just because it hurts your feelings when I point out the ludicrousness of your ideas does not mean you have any right to keep me from saying so, and to assume otherwise is to elevate that abstract belief above the very tangible reality of my individuality and rights thereof.
Dr. Myers isn’t attacking the individual here. He isn’t inciting any action against Catholics. He’s inciting action against the perpetuation of what he considers to be irrational and largely harmful myths – including, as anyone who has actually read the Bible will note, considerable beliefs about the worth and humanity of large swaths of your fellow humans.
He hit it right on the head, first off: what happens in this country regularly to people who have been identified by the religious majority as “inferior”, men such as Michael Shephard, is a hate crime. Pointing out the ridiculousness of an idea is not.
#119 – obviously diluting holy water just makes it stronger – aren’t you familiar with Homeopathy?
I figure a 30x solution would raise anyone from the dead!
Strange how so many accuse you of some vile intent and then act it out against you ;-)
These threads are providing pretty solid comedy.
Hopefully some radical stand-up guy is in here taking notes, what with Carlin gone.
How about a new YouTube challenge? “Desecrate the Eucharist” It practically writes itself so to speak.
To #179
Beautifully said. You captured what I was trying to say in #178. Very nicely done.
If you can’t tell the difference between a cracker and your kids, you need to turn yourself in for psychiatric treatment.
And whatever you do, don’t reproduce. Studies have shown that people who can’t tell the difference between children or crackers invariably end up tossing their kids in the garbage while tucking a cracker into bed or feeding them to the dog by accident.
Catholics: bitter much? Go to Mass or something to chill out. When you go up for communion, take a good hard long at that cracker. Do you really, truly believe that that is the body and blood of a man who died more than two thousand years ago?
Do you honestly, in totality, believe that when a priest says a couple of prayers, something that IS bread and wine can change into a man’s body? Even though it has not changed in any measurable way? How is that more sensible than me taking a piece of Wonder Bread and singing at it, then believing it is a piece of my great-grandmother’s arm? Would I not be psychotic for believing this, and moreover for eating something I believed to be human flesh?
So before you get all indignant at PZ, consider what you’re defending. It is illogic in the highest degree, and I’d say borderline mental.
IT’S A PRAYING CRACKER!
dysphemism, nice comments!
Calladus (#180):
Hah! A hit, a very palpable hit!
What I find interesting is the combination of Koran Envy, claims of respecting all religions, and calling Followers of Teh Prophet “muzzies”.
That’s some god damned respect for others, there.
“This is truly a deep wound to our Lord, Jesus Christ”
There’s still enough undecomposed corpse to be wounded? That’s crazy.
You can thank secular laws for that, not Catholicism, ChrisGose. If they had their way, they’d be pulling out the iron maiden right now, and I ain’t talkin’ The Number of the Beast on vinyl.
I just had this conversation with my dad
Dad: “Hey, I’m gonna take a shower; do you need to use the bathroom?”
Me: “No– check this shit out. A bunch of Catholics are threatening to kill a university professor for insulting a cracker.”
Dad: “Hahahahahaha… what a bunch of stupid fucking people.”
@#87 ROTFLMAO
Brian:
IT’S A PRAYING CRACKER!
fixed it.
Thanks Blake Stacey!
My responses to a few of these idiots:
“If he plans to do so, please let me know so I can give prior notice to the Muslim communities in your State AND recommend to a mathematics instructor I know to apply to fill the sudden vacancy of Dr. Myers’ position.”
Dr. Myers teaches biology moron.
“Yesterday almost no one outside of the narrow confines of Minnesota academia had ever heard the name of Paul Zachary Myers. But today the name rings with infamy, and has become synonomous with hatred and intolerance.”
Drama queen. Oh and a little research on your part would have revealed that Myers well known before this incident from his blog and from his appearance in Expelled .
“I just read the July 8, 2008 rant by Prof. Myers, in which he pledges to desecrate the Catholic Eucharist (which Catholics consider to be holy). Frankly, I am astounded that your University would allow such vitriolic hatred and bigotry to be spewed from one of its Professors! I don’t think I’ve ever before come across such prejudice and hatred in print! “
Read Mein Kampf, your Holy Book, or….well anything because you obviously don’t you read much.
“We need to hit him where it hurts. Perhaps I should grab a copy of his Holy Book, which I assume to be Darwin’s Origin of Species, and desecrate that! LOL!!”
Go ahead…you wouldn’t understand it anyway. And no one would really care, except maybe your local fire department.
“Biology has nothing to do with theology so why do you get involved?”
Indeed not, that is why it’s been so successful in explaining nature. So one person can only be interested in one topic?
“It is absolutely unacceptable to have on faculty a professor who does not represent and honor true showmanship and academic professionalism.”
Showmanship? He’s a professor, not an opera singer. Also, these remarks were on his personal blog so “academic professionalism” has nothing to do with it.
“Since you are brave behind your blog, threatening Bill O’ Donahue of the Catholic League saying you would be happy to kick him in the balls, why don’t you try that with this Catholic veteran? “
He never said that. He said he wouldn’t trade hostage wafers for seeing the pope kick Donahue (no O’) in the balls. Reading skills people.
“You are a monster. We need another Inquisition to root out idiots like you (and anyway, the Church only excommunicated heretics and witches, then handed them over to the state for punishment. We never executed them directly).”
Wow, how moral of the church not to kill a person with their own hands and just merely send them to those who will kill them.
Captain, there’s too much stupid. My brain can’t take anymore. Oh and for the (many!) people saying that PZ said something critical of Isalm, do a simple search in the Pharyngula archives. You’ll see how badly you have embarassed yourself.
“Hopefully some radical stand-up guy is in here taking notes, what with Carlin gone.”
I won’t ever do stand-up (I’m too antisocial), but I’m definitely insane enough to write a Carlin-esque psychotic rampa– sorry, a “Carlin-esque routine.”
@#191
There’s still enough undecomposed corpse to be wounded? That’s crazy.
Not only that, but apparently you can wound the god of the catholics with words.
Not so omnipotent now, are we?
Darn it, too late! Pray! This thread moves too fast!
So… much… stupid… aaarrrghhh… hurts…
Raven #104
I said something similar on another science blog, the other day. (He has just proved that the difference between a Catholic terrorist and a Moslem terrorist is zero, nothing.) and was called out on it. Even though, I disagree with the owner who called me out on it (along with the several fundies), I can appreciate his stance that most Christians are not as zealous as their Moslem counterparts. I still stand by the statement and this whole entire incident, I believes proves the point.
So, let me get this straight: Catholics are okay with priests fucking their kids, but they’re upset by kids fucking with their crackers.
The cognitive dissonance! It burns!
PZ has more people praying for him than the pope. With all of that prayer I guess he won’t be an athiest for long. Nice knowing you PZ… enjoy your life as a christian.
@157 “Ripping apart the Eucharist for those of the Catholic faith is equivalantly worse than force-feeding a cow to a Hindu,” are you fucking serious? forcefeeding=legitmate crime. soiling a cracker, um no.
“displaying pictures of Allah to insult the Muslim community.” we dont play wacko favorites. That is by definition the exercise of freedom of speech and expression. they are as wacko as any christian. http://www.acepilots.com/mt/wp-content/uploads/2006/02/Muhammed%20drawing%20newspaper.jpg
“You do not need to act like an ass to express your beliefs.” like threatening to arrest someone for violating them? threatening to harm? take their job? ridiculously hypocritical. this is not a theocracy. we can be assholes if we choose. better than being completely delusional.
“I request that you refrain from treating my God in such a disrespectful manner; in case you do not comprehend how much your suggestion has upset people, it might be equivalent to your grief had someone threatened to run over your children.” -what fucking fantasy world are you living in. children are real. you can touch them. they grow, eat, make mistakes, and even bleed. they love you, need you. threatening to run over someones child IS IN NO WAY COMPARABLE to someone criticizing whatever your supposed relationship with god is. If you honestly are so batshit insane that stealing a cracker is equivalent to the death of a child, perhaps you should meet someone who has lost and get some fucking perspective.
“Your opinions are your own, but they don’t give you license to do whatever you please.” oh the irony.
“Probably because it disproves some people’s fondly held opinions that all people with religious beliefs are violent, hateful wackos.” because every single letter and argument is completely logically bankrupt, we can safely conclude they are all wackos. I dont see any of the nonviolent ones discouraging the threats.There are legitimate problems in the world, dont waste our time trying to make us feel sorry for these fairies
Funny how a simple difference of opinion can sometimes bring out the true nature of people. Sure, PZ might have gone a little overboard for a man in his office, but the backlash makes that look like nothing. People need to learn to be mad without being nasty, they need to let differing opinions inspire them to check their own beliefs, and to remember a time in our own life when we ourselves weren’t correct about something. I don’t see anyone being totally defendable here, all have sinned you might say, right at the start when this college kid did a stupid pointless thing and got us all stirred up. Let’s try and remember what we have in common with each other. Let it all end.
PZ, I learned something out of all this, as I’m sure you did too. What we take away from this hopefully will make us both better people.
I can only suppose, then, that you also wouldn’t mind defecating on a Buddha in a temple, or urinating on a Torah while it’s still in its Ark, or maybe you’d go for stuffing a Koran down a toilet and flushing.
Just google “Buddha Shit” and you’ll get myriad Zen tales of Buddha image desecration on the part of adherents.
Some religions certainly are far less uptight than others. Judging from the e-mails, it appears that Catholicism aspires to the anal-retentiveness of Islam.
Calladus, I did consider the homeopathy angle too, but I didn’t want to labour my point. However:
How about blessing just one drop of HW, then tipping it into the Pacific Ocean? Now that should produce some serious HHW (Homeopathic Holy Water, or H2W for short!)
Oh, yes. Dawkins wrote about it in The God Dilution.
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l227/dingdong34/Cat%20Macros/ButthurtPost1.jpg If the image doesn’t load, click the link.
That is what the Catholic assholes should have sent you instead of these intellectually bankrupt death threats.
Yikes! Seeing the hysteria PZ has created I think I will lay off publishing my cartoon drawings of Muhammad discreting a wafer while eating a hamburger at a neo-Nazi rally.
In one of those weird acts of serendipity, I found this because I was looking for an animal training video for a friend who is a vet and needs to get a bobcat under control at her facility. I have no idea what bread shaped body parts have to do with animal training but the guy does interesting, but kind of gross, work.
We now have a new euphemism, people! Hooray! Now let’s go get down and pray to celebrate!
But it looks like we’ve got a serious problem, too. According to Matthew 6:5-7,
Well, you know the rest. But 1 Timothy 2:8 says,
Can we pray outside our closets or not? Inquiring minds want to know!
“I DONT SPEAK FOR ALL CATHOLICS BUT MOST OF US HAVE HAD SOME GREAT EDUCATIONS FROM GRADE SCHOOL TO GRADUATE LEVEL.
WERE EVEN RANKED SECOND BEHIND THE JEWISH COMMUNITY. WE RESPECT BILL THATS WHY HE SPEAKS FOR MOST OF US AND WE APPRECIATE IT. WE SEE IN YOUR COMMENTS THAT WE NEED THE BILL’S OF THIS WORLD TO FIGHT FOR US EVEN THOUGH WE CAN DO APPOLOGETICS FOR OURSELVES.”
I has som gr8 edukationz!
All I can muster is a LOLLLLLLLLLL
IM EMPLORING PZ DONT DESICRAET CRAKER. U SUCH BIGGGOT
The opinion of the illuminated is/has been rather predictable of late. Sad to see that you, too, have been the subject of superficial outrage and poor logic. Time to pity those who just exercise their bigotry and ignorance with unashamed brazenness.
They are all atheists too. It just one god (their Catholic god) that they make the exception for. When they come to understand that they are atheists too, then (an only then) will they realize that you simply are, through reason and science, able to hold all god concepts to the same standard of proof.
Sometimes it is embarrassing that there are Americans so ignorant, irrational, and illogical as to believe that their existences are divine, rather than infrequent.
HH =)
I was surprised to find that koran envy is actually not in use that much on the internets, and we seem to have a relatively new meme here. Google results two and three point at the cracker threads here on Pharyngula already, out of 8 results in total.
Pretty soon the first thing Google will return when searching for “koran envy” will be posts about catholics getting their panties in a twist over crackers.
Please PZ, do go on. :)
“Galton’s idolatry of science and his rejection of Christian faith– a view hardly distinguishable, except by its erudition, from Myers’ view– had a profound influence on 20th century medical science and practice. Ideas have consequences, and ideas have antecedents. The science that rose from these atheist and Darwinist ideas– the science of eugenics– gave rise to the darkest era in the history of medicine. Myers’ virulent Darwinism and his anti-Christian bigotry are just uncommonly repellant expressions of Galton’s intrinsically repellant ideology. The metaphysical basis for eugenics– the Darwinist understanding of human origins– lives on in the atheist claque in contemporary science.”
http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&ct=us/5-0&fp=4877b0e581ffaddb&ei=Wfx3SKnLIZP2_AH5s9WGBA&url=http%3A//www.evolutionnews.org/2008/07/myers_old_ideas.html&cid=0&usg=AFQjCNEToNrK8BGqTwFTBnhSJbDcNIpihQ
Myers is a joke (and hazard); Catholics are not the only one to realize this fact.
PZ did you seriously read through all that bullshit? I couldnt stomach it!!! I read like 8 of them and recieved(lol sp?) severe brain damage.
Religion deserves no respect!
Sorry, I couldn’t read through all of them. It got too repetitive.
None of the letters seemed to understand that PZ wasn’t reacting against the Eucharist itself — he was reacting against the over-reaction to its “desecration.”
It’s analogous to responding to the Muslim hysteria over the cartoons by drawing a stick figure with an arrow and the word “Mohammed” pointing to it — and posting it on a blog. Or publically naming your Teddy Bear “Mohammed” as a show of solidarity with the teacher who was persecuted. The point is to show that the outrage is disproportional.
There is no real harm committed. We are not going to play the game that says that there has been harm committed. It’s a cracker, a picture, a teddy bear. Your fantasy world is not part of the common ground we all stand on.
Instead, what is their analogy?
Well, here’s an analogy which has been occurring to me more and more frequently recently.
Puss ‘n Boots. From the movie Shrek.
He’s an arrogant, cocksure little braggart, strutting and preening and throwing his weight around. And then, what happens when he is really cornered?
The big, sad little kitty eyes. The sweet, fuzzy little kitty face. Those darling little kitty lips, trembling with emotion and sensitivity. Awwwwwww … how cute. Leave the little guy alone.
That’s the Catholics — Christians — theists in general. They’re powerful, smug, and sneer at those foolish atheists who just don’t get it, do they. And when you do anything to call their bluff, point out the obvious, mention that the emperor is naked —- awwwww. It’s the BIG KITTY EYES.
Oh noes!! These are my sacred, sacred beliefs. This is so very, very hurtful. You are taking away the most precious thing I have. Mommy, this man says my puppy who died doesn’t still love me in heaven anymore. Mommy?
So it looks like mommy has to kick our butts, now, because of what we did to their sweet, gentle, fragile, CUTE little feelings. They were weak and defenseless, and we attacked their baby sensibilities.
This is the rage of parents, protecting a helpless child. Not the cracker. Themselves.
Puss ‘n Boots Apologetics.
Fucking hilarious. Give us more, give us more.
It amazes me how many of the emails either stated they did not know why PZ is taking his stance, or misrepresented it. It’s clear they didn’t actually read the “fracking cracker” post in question. So how come they are offended by it?
You owe me a keyboard!
Hi PZ. I am a radical agnostic rationalist and I used to be an immunochemist and I love your blog and agree with almost everything you write. However, I respectfully disagree with your decision to desecrate a sacred symbol, for two reasons: 1. I think you will alienate potential converts to non-religion, and 2. By desecrating a Catholic symbol but not a Muslim one, you confirm the pernicious idea that plausible threats of violent retaliation can be used to increase respect for (or at least respectful treatment of) the religion that makes such threats.
Sincerely, –Ted.
@ 218
Let me be the first to say.. not this shit again!
Also brings a whole new meaning to “praying with one hand”…
Bzzzt. Wrong. Thanks for playing. Eugenics is just the attempt to do selective breeding on human beings, and farmers have been breeding plants and animals since before the dawn of history (in other words, for longer than Young-Earth Creationists think the Universe has existed).
Woah, so much hatred and being offended… all over a cracker.
If Catholics want to show any evidence that a priest saying a few words turns a cracker into a dead jew zombie, then I’m sure PZ Myers and everyone else here would cease. But it was a cracker before the priest touched it, it was a cracker after it was given to the person taking communion, and it will continue to be a cracker until it’s digested by the body.
It’s a cracker ffs!
Guys, I appreciate that PZ has antagonized the Catholics to the point where they show that they’re not much different than those dreaded Muslim fundamentalists.
PZ didn’t just say “your belief is absurd.” What PZ did in a lame attempt at satire was to say “your belief is absurd, people should go into your sacred space and desecrate your idols.”
Sorry folks. There is a big difference between saying Christianity is stupid and encouraging people to go into a church to get you a cross to desecrate on Youtube.
Shame on PZ. Check his post all you sycophants.
Dear Rob Sterling:
To everybody who thinks there’s a death threat among those messages – a death threat would be phrased in the form of an imminent, first person warning. It wouldn’t be formed in an ambiguous, passive-voiced warning.
If this were really the case, the Secret Service would not have investigated teenagers for drawing pictures of a beheaded GWB in art class.
“I will work to let as many people as possible know there are still people like you taking advantage of the freedom America offers.”
So we shouldn’t take advantage of the freedom that American soldiers have died for?
The way these people talk, it’s like Catholics are being hauled off to camps.
Donohue et al ‘If it were the jews/muslims,whateverdumbfuckidea’ the media would be all over you.
Give me a break.
@218
strong reference. A+
PS – for a “scholar,” Myers writes at very low levels of eloquence and/or intelligence.
Nuff said!
It’s. A. Fucking. Cracker.
If it were pissing on a holy book, you could make the case that it’s a book, and it’s not cool to desecrate books. You can *learn* something from books. If it were torching a building, you could make a case from it’s architecture, it’s history or the sheer usefulness of a place with four walls and a ceiling.
But it’s a fucking cracker, and one destined to be crushed, bathed in acid, turned into waste and excreted into a toilet (by Catholics!) at that.
This has been a day of despairing for the human race, no doubt about that.
@Ron in Houston
Wow, what a damn good idea ;)
1. Point me to a person who was alienated from rationalism on these grounds. Once we have evidence, then we can talk.
2. (a) No symbol has yet been desecrated. All we’ve seen is talk about it, the proposal of a hypothetical scenario, which (to my reckoning) carries equal weight to the denunciations of Islam hosted on this site before.
(b) Where were you when we were suggesting that PZ glue a bunch of crackers to a Koran, wrap it in the American flag and set it on fire with liquid oxygen and a blowtorch? Throw in a hammer and sickle, too, for all I care: fuck — I mean, I’ll pray for all your symbols.
@ Ted in #224
“radical agnostic rationalist”
What the hell does that even mean?
“I think you will alienate potential converts to non-religion”
Yeah, it’s pretty obvious any of the people quoted above could have “converted” anytime soon. Is “non-religion” protelyzing now?
“By desecrating a Catholic symbol but not a Muslim one, you confirm the pernicious idea that plausible threats of violent retaliation can be used to increase respect for (or at least respectful treatment of) the religion that makes such threats.”
Have you read any of the comments so far? I think we might have something in this “Koran envy” term.
Sorry you haven’t thought it through. Paul Hill murdered two MDs and was executed by the state of Florida. Osama helped kill 3,000 at the World Trade Center and is a hero in much of the Moslem world.
So what is the difference. After all, 3,000 is more than 2.
The difference is the USA has enforced laws against burning witches, assassinating MDs, flying planes into skyscrapers, Inquisitions, lynchings and so on. This is a secular state ruled by laws and neutral on religions who aren’t given any secular powers.
Without the state’s laws backed up by the courts and cops, how long would PZ Myers, any evolutionary biologists, and any heretics or rival sects last? About 5 minutes.
If the wingnut fanatics posting death threats could get away with it, we would look like Iraq or Afghanistan and fall to the same standard of living.
There is no difference between xian or moslem terrorists. There is a huge difference between the societies they operate in. We don’t let ours run around loose and they know it.
“No of course not, because you are a typical whiny college professor. Are you upset because your boyhood priest didn’t show you any love?”
I’m confused, is this a Catholic actually joking about Catholic priests molesting children, as if it were a normal/good thing?
“Woah, so much hatred and being offended… all over a cracker.”
Social autism at it’s finest!
Atheists/eugenicists much be practicing what they preach – i.e. selective breeding within their gene pool…
And, PZ has proven himself to be nothing more than a cocksucking, zebrafish-fondling fool…
From one email: “What do you have against Catholics and our faith to make you say such harsh and evil things?”
Speaking for myself only, I can’t respect people who threaten murder because of a cracker.
I have other problems with Catholics besides the terrorism. Their beliefs, and I unfortunately know all about their beliefs, couldn’t possibly be more insane. The jesus in a cracker is just a small part of the insanity.
Why is it that only THEIR belief of “the cracker is magical” needs to be respected, but OUR belief of “um… it’s just a cracker” necessitates grievous punishment?
I hope no one blogs about planning to cook some pork chops, it might offend the Jews.
PZ, didn’t you mention quite some time ago you were writing a book? If not, then you should.
“It’s just a Goddamn cracker” would be a great title or subtitle.
Are you saying it’s not a cracker?
Yup.
Holy snapping Christ Crackers Batman, there sure are a lot of rabid, violence prone Catholics out there. Whilst I didn’t read all the emails, I did notice a disturbing trend in the ones I did read. I find it highly ironic that so many of these ‘loving Christians’, express their outrage by either explicitly or implicitly advocating the use of physical violence against you.
They dare you to ridicule Islam in the same way as you did Catholicism, in the hope that some rabid Muslim might then come along and kill you.
I’m certain that if Catholics were ever permitted to burn their opponents at the stake again, then some of these people would be among the first to volunteer to go and collect the firewood. : D
Here are a couple of gems from that litany of hate and loathing.
“IF Catholics had half the testosterone of muzzies, the answer would be simple. Holy hollowpoint. But alas, I expect they will whimper and grovel as usual.”
Followed soon after by,
“PS – I find it rather funny that so many people are incredibly tolerant (nice buzzword) until they feel offended. Then all tolerance goes out the window.”
The irony is palpable!!!
Shame on PZ. Check his post all you sycophants.
Posted by: Ron in Houston | July 11, 2008 8:49 PM
PZ never told anyone to get a cross or desecrate anything.
Ron in Houston is just another liar for Chirst.
Eugenics is alive and well, and we’re getting it right this time (see links). As usual, you’re missing the point (in the broad sense of “you”) that science is neutral and policy is susceptible to ideology. The Nazi eugenicists were appropriating the energy of a scientific revolution to serve their own political ends, something your guru Egnor could give seminars on.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_eugenics
http://books.google.com/books?id=yqaV_3QzYFMC&dq=liberal+eugenics&pg=PP1&ots=zgXhC2adM0&sig=Fvpv_j4YsoiY1bOb6cr-jX2upu4&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result
PZ has proven himself to be nothing more than a cocksucking…
It’s really hard to pay a higher compliment.
That’s a strong case, indeed. However, just for the fun of it, I can imagine cases where burning a book might be acceptable. For example:
I would not advocating stealing the public library’s only copy of Ann Coulter’s Godless and burning it. If nothing else, humanity might benefit from a record of authoritarian stupidity, and it could provide research material for a future novelist (supposing our species does not self-destruct before that novel can get written). On the other hand, if we were filming a movie with a book-burning scene — like Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade or Fahrenheit 451, let’s say — then buying Coulter or Dobson’s crap from a used-book shop doesn’t sound like such a bad idea. The prop department deserves to have fun, too.
Ron in Houston,
BTW – how is Houston? I lived there for 12 years. Before moving there I never knew that cockroaches could be 3 inches long and fly in swarms! And the fire ants, and 200 days of rain a year… at least the food was decent.
My take? If PZ acquires a Eucharist through theft, then I’ll be with you to condemn that act. Police should charge him with a crime equivalent to the property value of one communion cracker.
But if PZ gets a cracker through re-gifting, then I have no problem with what he does with it.
As far as a person receiving communion for the express purpose of sending it to PZ – if there is no agreement between the priest and recipient about the final destination of the Eucharist, then I don’t see how it could be immoral to re-gift something you were given.
Sorry. #250 was addressed to #218.
Thought experiment:
If I legally purchase a religious symbol, and choose to desecrate it in the privacy of my own home, what laws have I broken?
My favorites:
“I find it rather funny that so many people are incredibly tolerant (nice buzzword) until they feel offended. Then all tolerance goes out the window.” (already referenced by others but just so good that I had to point it out again)
“…why would an alleged intelligent person (supposed) become so enraged over a ‘Frackin Cracker’?” (applied to PZ, and, like the previous one, apparently without any awareness of irony)
Maybe somebody has already suggested this, but how about a sort of “I am Spartacus” day. Tomorrow everybody could include the phrase “It’s a frackin’ cracker!” in their blog.
Rob Sterling, clear back @ #52
In case this hasn’t been resolved earlier in the thread:
PZ didn’t “[go] out of his way to offend” anybody. He did make a post saying he’d maltreat a cracker. Donohue and Co. then took offense and spread news of this far and wide, in order to help a maximum number of other people take offense.
I can not offend anybody, but they can choose to be offended at anything I do or say.
That just gets funnier and funnier!
My whole body is shaking and tears are falling on my keyboard. Someone said something about abusing the Sacred Oreo. The Cookie from Heaven, the Snack Food of Angels. I know we Oreans are divided into groups that eat the Holy Cookie in different ways. I am of the bit into the whole Holy Oreo but there are no theological reasons preventing one from twisting off the top and licking the Holy White Filling.
The greatest post was the one from the guy who wanted you to do a scientific investigation of the cracker so he linked to a “Miracles of the Eucharist.” I’ve always wondered why god wastes his powers making bleeding (in the scientific sense)cracker. Why doesn’t he zap away all the hunger in the world? He probably can’t make that many crackers.
“Yesterday almost no one outside of the narrow confines of Minnesota academia had ever heard the name of Paul Zachary Myers. But today the name rings with infamy, and has become synonomous with hatred and intolerance. You might have gained renown for some tremendous scientific breakthrough, or for touching the minds and hearts of your students. Instead you have become notorious for your ignorance and your bigotry. Your story, Paul, is truly tragic.”
It seems like every single one of these e-mails contains enough insight into the ignorance and narrow-mindedness of Catholics to have warranted its own post in normal circumstances.
Dammit. This FUCKING CRACKER shit is hilarious and annoying–I’m not getting any dissertation work done tonight!
Dang it, “would not advocating” should have been “would not advocate”. People are showing up to my friend’s birthday party, so I should be leaving the Internet behind, anyway. . . .
— Philip Stacey
Xeno #239 wrote:
No, I’m leaning towards the term Fatwa envy. The Christians here are not wishing they had the Quran instead of the Bible. They are wishing they had the power, ability, and above all the cultural approval to place a fatwa on someone who offends their religious sensibilities. They covet Islamic violence, not scripture.
They’re chaffing against the ropes of the Enlightenment. They may also be just a bit pissed at that character who said they were supposed to be meek and mild, and turn the other cheek. They like him better later on, in Revelation.
Fatwa envy.
We should go easy on ’em. Some of these people just need to get prayed.
“Why are your people so fowl towards Catholics?”
Is that another way to call us “chicken”?
Raven #240: Paul Hill was not Catholic, and he murdered only ONE MD (his other victim was an escort, not an MD).
Xeno #239, by “radical agnostic rationalist” I mean the duel belief that human beings are constitutively incapable of knowing anything whatsoever about the supernatural (including whether or not there is a god), and that the truth or falsity of any hypothesis is properly decided by reason and experiment.
Did you even bother to read any of those emails?
Those are clear death threats, whether you like it or not. Especially the second one and the fourth one are stated in clear, first person, unambiguous terms. How are these not death threats?
Please don’t torture our tentacled overlord’s favored ones like that. Do you want Cthulhu’s wrath down on you?
What’s up with the stupid meme of saying ‘you wouldn’t say that to a muslin’. Little Ray Comfort parrots. Like that has anything to do with how moronic your stupid frelling religion is.
Why does Jesus need absurd, cass, witless clods to protect him?
If I’m getting this right, we should be hauling lorries with sacred items from all over the world with us at all times and “desecrate” each one appropriately whenever we want to say something about a religion.
I’m drawing the line at pirate regalia btw. No praying way that I’m gonna miss my chance for a beer volcano when I die.
Not to harp on an issue or hijack the thread, but in further response to #218 and for general enjoyment, here’s an excellent article on the politics and ideology of enhancement.
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-why-i-support-liberal-eugenics-406804.html
Ands look what can happen for sending nasty and threatening emails:
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Former_U.S._diplomat_gets_year_for_0711.html
Forgive me, I forgot how to make a nice purty link.
I’m thinking of naming my new blog “It’s not a blog, it’s just a goddamned cracker.”
He’s not the savior, he’s a very frackin cracker!
Sastra #263 wrote:
“No, I’m leaning towards the term Fatwa envy.”
You make a strong case for it. However, if we want to be “correct”, the wiki on Fatwa states:
“Western media frequently uses the term incorrectly to specifically mean an Islamic law pronouncing a death sentence upon someone who is considered an infidel or a blasphemer, whereas the term’s correct definition is significantly broader.”
I took your comment to suggest just that interpretation.
In any case, I think this radical religious fanatic-envy displayed here is better as a joke, mostly because it being truthful would be very horrific indeed.
Godsdamnit PZ! I’m getting sick of all this desecration business! We all know what the issue is here, very few of these Catholics seem to be able to figure out. Spell it out for them, make your point already and then get back to writing something for us about mollusc reproduction! Please write something about mollusc reproduction?
Oh, and by the way, I’m not sure if anybody’s pointed this out so far (chances are pretty good, but I’m not going to read through two thousand or so comments!), but you can’t just get any old Hosts and do something to them, the Words of Institution must be spoken by an apostolically ordained, non-schismatic Priest or Bishop for it to become the Eucharist (benefits of a liberal Catholic upbringing). Incidentally, why not kill two related birds with one stone and say something to set the Orthodox Church into persecution-apoplexy as well; it oughtn’t to be that hard, they’re practically the same thing despite all their absurd nitpicking.
Actually, you know, I think somebody is going to have to bring a box of “Wheat Thins” to every Pharyngufest from now on.
Word. Most of the “don’t take my blankie, mean Mr. Atheist”-type e-mails are knee-jerks from morons who got an incoherent forward about this from their church group or something. They read about three sentences of the post, fired off a whiny e-mail, and haven’t since given the matter a thought.
These e-mails remind me of the way that a kid reacts when someone tries to throw away an old toy that’s been lying ignored in the back of the closet for three years. It’s been completely forgotten until someone tries to get rid of it, at which point it’s suddenly the only thing they’ve ever truly loved. From what people have posted in other threads, basically every Catholic EVER has some wacky story about getting Jesus stuck in their braces or whatever. No one actually cares about the stupid cracker, and the writers (I use the term loosely) wouldn’t generally think twice (or even once) about it. They may go on about the the lord and the host and how it’s the most precious thing imaginable and blah blah blah, but they’d save the damn kid.
Ridicule is the price of ridiculousness. And just because a billion of you don’t think that holy crackers are ridiculous doesn’t make you any more right in that regard than the one man who thinks his sacred Kit Kat bars are nothing to joke about.
I was particularly confused by the e-mail in which the author labels PZ’s blog as inspirational and disparages it for its lack of intelligence at the same time. Within this e-mail the author points out his 99th percentile IQ and the fact that after studying cosmology and quantum physics (as a hobby) before converting to Catholicism because it didn’t make since to him.
This man’s arrogance is astonishing. It seems that he read Stephen Hawking’s A Brief History of Time once and proceeds to call himself a self educated cosmologist. This mad did not understand what he read, and turned to the “God of the gaps”.
Oh man, the hate mails, they are funny and priceless.
Holy sweet jesus on a cracker has the crazy descended on this blog! haha Please give us more! This is just about the most entertaining reading I’ve had in a while.
IT’S A GOD DAMN CRACKER!!
You catholics out there might want to revisit the ten commandants. Pay special attention to #2, you know the one about idols?
A “picture of Mohammed”? Ingesting Our Lord seems to have turned these people into religious crackers.
The most severe form of excommunication is called Anathema. It used to have a ceremony involving the Pope, and ended with the following:
“Wherefore in the name of God the All-powerful, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, of the Blessed Peter, Prince of the Apostles, and of all the saints, in virtue of the power which has been given us of binding and loosing in Heaven and on earth, we deprive [NAME] himself and all his accomplices and all his abettors of the Communion of the Body and Blood of Our Lord, we separate him from the society of all Christians, we exclude him from the bosom of our Holy Mother the Church in Heaven and on earth, we declare him excommunicated and anathematized and we judge him condemned to eternal fire with Satan and his angels and all the reprobate, so long as he will not burst the fetters of the demon, do penance and satisfy the Church; we deliver him to Satan to mortify his body, that his soul may be saved on the day of judgment.”
The guy was then liable to be taken to the Inquisition.
Raven (240)
I wasn’t arguing with you about the statement. Please accept my apology if that is how it came across. I agree that the only difference (ideologically) between Islamic fundies and Christian fundies is a dress code. I also agree that fundamentalists are essentially neutered in this country, but given an opportunity, would not hesitate to resort to the tactics seen in the Middle East
Well, I managed about 30 or so before my retinas detached. Some of these people need the kind of help that they won’t find in some dumb church, Christian, Muslim, nor even Scientologist — it’s all the same thing, anyway.
I say feed the frakin’ cracker to the parrot. Somebody might as well get some use out of it.
doov
#87 – Bill Mintahue – Oh, aye brother! I’ll be yer body guard, in the ancient manner of clan MacMadder – bare breasted and tight fisted. Let the Athinmintists come on! Riff-raff! Hatefilled, hatemongering, heretics. Thin Mints are the one, the TRUE, and the only cookie. Forever and ever, Pax Mintus.
I especially love the way they call it “hate speech.”
http://www.kobrascorner.com/philo/fuckyourwafers.png
If you think PZ Myers is insulting, you’ve never encountered me before. :P
John
I’m sure you’re ignorant enough of religion to not exactly know what PZ advocated. Otherwise I’d just tell you that you simply either didn’t read the clear words of the post or you’re just full of shit.
And for the record, I’m an atheist. I could lie for Christ but that would be a little absurd since I would be lying for something I don’t believe in.
Calladus
Re-gifting is just as morally bankrupt and abusive as what PZ first advocated.
Personally, I’m sick of people saying how shocked and dismayed they are about theistic behavior when they are basically acting the same or worse.
Calling people “demented fuckwits” is not exactly the moral high road people.
Real nice PZ. You’re a shining example of high minded rational argument.
Thin Mints are the one, the TRUE, and the only cookie. Forever and ever, Pax Mintus.
You’ve never had the God of Biscuits’s white chocolate chip oatmeal cookies. Talk about a divine experience.
#288
With a title like that, I actually expected wafer-fucking. What I got instead was pretty tame. :(
#291
Sorry to disappoint. I planned on doing a stop-motion film where a few holy crackers have sexual relations with a Little Debbie’s devil food snack cake.
Hm.
Mathematically, the purloined eucharist wafer must surely represent only an infinitesimal quantity of Jesus, right?
Divide one average-sized human among the countless wafers consumed in the last 2000 years, and you get a very small amount of Jesus per wafer.
And that’s assuming early Christians didn’t bogart the Christ and take larger portions because they expected the second coming to happen soon.
Sorry to disappoint. I planned on doing a stop-motion film where a few holy crackers have sexual relations with a Little Debbie’s devil food snack cake.
See if you can get mini-pitas. Much hotter!
Who know there were so many rabid, extremist atheist out there???
No class…..no civility…..and no clue.
Ron @ #289
“Personally, I’m sick of people saying how shocked and dismayed they are about theistic behavior when they are basically acting the same or worse.”
How exactly do you figure the people saying cracker worship is stupid is the “same or worse” than saying human life is less valuable than a cracker?
Note: plenty of people are NOT in fact asserting this, but are reacting to how catholics reacted way in the beginning of this whole incident.
And a concern troll.
PZ has received death threats. People have told him that they would kill him. That’s not exactly the high moral road that you seem to be looking for.
Or do you only expect sweetness and light from atheists?
#294
Having never done as stop-motion film before, and having a really low budget as it is, I can’t make any promises. If it turns out good, I’ll consider a sequel.
I can see that the cover that the moderates provide for extremism is effectively blown. They’re really very much alike.
(Actually, it’s been the extremists who’ve been making the moderates appear to be better than they actually are)
Wes, none of those “threats” are in the form “I am definitely going to kill you”. Some are merely hinting at an ability to have PZ killed should they so wish, or to certainly kill him, but only if he strays into their neck of the woods. In some cases they could be interpreted as helpful warnings to watch out for religious people such as themselves, who might express their disappointment in an unfortunate manner. However, Christians, unlike the adherants of certain other religions don’t try to coerce with threats of violence. Anyone who says otherwise can expect a lengthy spell of readjustment therapy in the afterlife.
I so know what the wife and I will do on sunday. Instead of the usual brunch after a long and immoral night out on the town here in Copenhagen, we’re going to sneak into the only catholic church I know of here, and pilfer a few cookies. We’ve thought up a few good uses for them… All of them sort of breaking the commandments, I’m afraid.
I do have one worry though. If somehow a child should be the product of this “frolicking”, can we get child support from the church then? After all, him Jesus was involved in the ummmm, process, you might say.
Ron in Houston wrote:
There’s an even bigger difference between reminding people that all religious beliefs are stupid in a blog read by a few thousand people, and spotting the opportunity for a way to let the Christians demonstrate their own moral failings and illustrate the mindboggling inanity of their belief system in such a manner that the incident will be escalated and the message will go out to many, many thousands.
PZ gave them enough rope; they’ve done a stellar job of hanging themselves.
One of your artisty types needs to make a cartoon drawing of Muhammad…eating a communion wafer!
The perfect sacrilege…
Personal favourites:
and
Biff: “Make some ‘host’ wafers, but include arsenic in the batter.”
The arsenic would not be transubstantiated, it would remain. Read the chapters on the Eucharist and the Mass in Karl Keating’s Catholicism and Fundamentalism (Ignatius Press, 1988). He covers that. A better objection is why would the communion bread effect someone with “celiac disease” if the whole bread in the host was supposedly transubstantiated into Jesus. Hint: that’s answered also at Catholic Answers http://www.catholic.com
Most of the Email P.Z. received appeared to be well reasoned. I didn’t see any crazy death threats. It is what I expected to see.
P.Z. is much different in person than he is on the blog. I’ve seen him on Expelled, heard him on radio. I think he would be a wonderful dinner guest. I would have a million questions. I’m a Ken Miller evolutionist myself.
Anyone have questions on Catholicism, meet us at Catholic Answers forums, 90000+ strong.
http://forums.catholic.com
http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=252632 (thread on P.Z.)
Phil P
And for the record, I’m an atheist.
Christians who lie about being christians make baby Jesus cry.
One of your artisty types needs to make a cartoon drawing of Muhammad…eating a communion wafer!
The perfect sacrilege…
Off a priest’s cock!
Steve @ #300
Wow. Surely, you’re trolling right now? Right?
I started wondering who manufactured communion wafers in the first place – and then I found these delectable recipies.
But what if you’re allergic? Gluten-free wafers.
Some people eat them as snacks “like corn chips and peanuts.”
New-fangled Millennium Issue wafers.
Bill Donohue’s going to be busy finding websites to get offended by.
Yo, PZ, if anyone shows up at the door with a halberd, GET OUT OF THE HOUSE PRONTO!!!
http://www.benoa.net/italy/vatican/pages/Vatican-16.html
Unless, of course, you can “magic missile” him.
Ron
I know exactly what he said. Paraphrased, He said that if anyone sent him a consecrated host he would show Bill some real desecration.
That in no way lines up with your claim that he:
So you are clearly misrepresenting what that circumstances were to make the position of the complaining Catholics seem more reasonable and the position on PZ more egregious.
So you were lying for Christ (or Christians if you prefer).
More evidence that you don’t have a clue.
Ron, you’re getting tedious.
New concern troll, please.
Kobra,
Those look more like Ecstasy – which I’d be a little more upset to see burn than crispy christy crackers.
Flaming disco biscuits for all!
And to think I was listening to Salman Rushdie tonight.
“The arsenic would not be transubstantiated, it would remain”
You mean just like all of the other ingredients?
“However, Christians, unlike the adherants of certain other religions don’t try to coerce with threats of violence.”
Oh, Stevie Ray Wrong, this is only because we have a SECULAR GOVERNMENT! No, the country was not founded on Christian principles, get the B.S. notion out of your fool head. Have you ever heard of the Salem witch trials? Were the hangmen not Christians? For that matter, was Eric Robert Rudolph not a Christian?
Phil @ 305
Thanks for the links, pal! Plenty more comedy over there.
Some samples just from the first page:
“Wow. I read his blog. What a hate-filled individual. That at least allows me to cross off one potential college campus for my kids.”
“I bet if he said he was going to desecrate a Koran, there would be an uproar heard around the world in the MSM and he would be immediately fired.”
“Ironically, this “professor” was one of the targets in Expelled.”
“I bet he won’t do the same thing to something that Muslums consider Holy, I doubt he would desecrate a picture of Mohammed.”
“While I was quite enraged and saddened when I first read this, I have come to realize we must pray for these individuals that they may change the errors of their ways and thinking. My poor Jesus!”
Maybe they didn’t understand…. It’s. A. Cracker.
I just read all 170 (+/- 1) emails — yes, every bit of the deluded, religious insanity contained within them. All over a piece of fucking bread.
Fuck, but those Wacky Wafer Worshipers missed that 3rd Commandment…
Phil #306
Perhaps you didn’t look hard enough. Wes, in #267, gave several examples:
Steel ball? Sparrow every 1000 years? Wearing the ball down? That’s what hell is like??*
Now I know what hell is like – I just read through all that crap. It’s amazing that some of these knuckle-dragging eucharist gaggers can figure out a keyboard, considering how stupid they are.
(* At least one creotard appears to understand evolutionary time-scales!)
JoJo @ #319
Phil (#306) said:
“I didn’t see any crazy death threats.”
Obviously he meant that the death threats were perfectly reasonable ones, as others have already suggested here.
Silly Catholics, respect is for people (not ideas or rabbits).
I believe the Catholic League’s argument here boils down to:
“You have offended us by not taking our special beliefs seriously. We have a right not to be offended, especially regarding our special beliefs. This right trumps your right to not share our special beliefs and to say so publicly. Furthermore, there must be grave consequences for people such as you, because there are more of us than there are of you. And because there are so many of us that share these special beliefs, we can push people like you around, and most of the time, we do.”
#290 – MAJeff,OM – Way to embarrass me! Point out that I have never had the experience of white chocolate chip oatmeal cookies.
So, Meester well traveled oatmeal lover, why do you think I signed on as a Strumpet and not a Slut? Fie!
I taunt you outrageously, and flounce passed your table.
Your aunties smell of crrrackers!
The stupidity demonstrated in these letters is matched only by the stupidity demonstrated in the comments section. But…I suppose it is nice to see that neither atheists or Catholics have a monopoly on smug self-righteousness.
Myers and Donohue deserve each other. Epic fail for everyone involved.
I call Poe on #300.
And Ron, please come up with some new shtick. Your level of apparent concern should have you crying like a baby without a cracker.
One common thread with these assholes e-mailing PZ is that they’re not regular Pharyngula readers. They came here via links that were found in their idiotic religious blogs and suddenly, their overly sensitive dispositions were offended when faced with reality.
I do admit that there are some religious lines that can’t be crossed on threats of violence or academic suicide. If I decided to burn a heap of Yarmulkes, I don’t think Jews would take kindly to that, I do believe they would bark anti-semitism and win. Granted, it’s harder to seperate the religion from the ethnicity among jews, so anything that offends their religious beliefs, may seem like an offense to their ethnicities. If I took kosher foods and happened to trample them under food, they might not take too kindly to that either. It’s similar with Islam I suppose. If I drew a picture of Mohammed on a blog, I might get so much static and death threats that the university might have to vocally reprimand me. At the moment, it’s easier to pick on the religious icons of Christians because they’re so annoying and also the majority. It’s not as though PZ doesn’t criticize muslims or jews for their behavior though. It’s just that in this day and age, it’s easier to completely mock christianity, while we will mock judaism and islam, but with caveats. We’ll mock idiotic religious leaders, stupid beliefs, and behaviors, yet we won’t go so far as mocking their sacred relics like we will with Christianity. Part of it I guess is the fact that many of us come from such backgrounds so it’s easier to mock it. It’s the same as comedians who mock their given race because it’s deemed less offensive then jokes on account of other races. Perhaps one day, all religious idiocy can be equally satirized…and on that day, I suppose dragons will usurp their dominance and take over the planet.
John
The only way you can get a consecrated communion wafer is to subvert the Catholics during their mass. Whether I agree with Catholic theology or not, that’s just wrong. For your knowledge, the Catholics only consecrate so many “hosts.” After the communion service the Priest must eat all the remaining consecrated hosts. So, the only way that someone can get their hands on a “consecrated host” is to go into their service, and try to disrupt it by not immediately consuming the host. That’s why the people came unglued when that UCF student didn’t immediately consume the “host.”
It is crazy? Yeah to someone who is an atheist. However, it’s their church, it’s their service. We’re Americans and they have the lawful right to practice their religion. PZ advocated violating the same precious first amendment that people invoke for him to call people demented fuckwits by advocating people interfere with the Catholics constitutionally guaranteed right to practice their religion.
Craig
Dude, you don’t like it then don’t read. Perhaps you could contribute something to the discussion other than calling people trolls.
So far I haven’t taken the intellectual high road like PZ and called people demented fuckwits. However, I’m getting close.
Some of these are fantastic.
Wait, you lost me…
From what I read, this is my favorite:
“You are no different in your faith than Mohammed Atta, or any of the 9/11 killers. In a way you are worse than they were; you are ‘educated’ and ‘civilized’, whereas they were simply indoctrinated.”
This, coming from Mr. 99th Percentile IQ. You’re worse than people who crash planes into buildings.
It’d be hilarious if it weren’t so depressing.
How dare you call my grandmother “morally bankrupt”! You are a sad and evil man.
Communion wafers can be ordered online. They’re cheap. Presumably they haven’t gone through the Jesusifier.
PZ ought to buy a couple hundred, ‘bless’ them for atheism (or the FSM), and give them away as prizes.
#290 – MAJeff,OM – Way to embarrass me! Point out that I have never had the experience of white chocolate chip oatmeal cookies.
So, Meester well traveled oatmeal lover, why do you think I signed on as a Strumpet and not a Slut? Fie!
I taunt you outrageously, and flounce passed your table.
Your aunties smell of crrrackers!
My aunties may smell of crackers, but my cookies bring all the boys to the bar!
SLUT PRIDE! Where’s my parade?!
[Like the horrible, awful, hateful atheist I am, I make cookies for my students on the last day of class, be it the day they turn in papers or during the final exam–white chocolate chip oatmeal, and sometimes mint chocolate chip oatmeal for December finals)
I followed up on Phil’s (305) hint to see what the church says about parishioners who are allergic to gluten. Instead of an answer, I found irony:
and then
When he uses the word reality, I don’t think he knows what it means.
Craig @ 311
Ugh… you had to ask for a new concern troll, didn’t you? And thus we have Eric @ 324. Wonderous.
@295…
just to refresh your memory:
Number of death threats from atheists to anyone involved: 0.
Number of death threats from Catholics to a) the original victim (in case you’d forgotten, the poor sod who failed to chew his wafer and was threatened, which is what caused the problem in the first place, not the concept of transsubstantiation) and b) PZ: several dozen by now, apparently.
Think again about the “rabid” and “extremist” labels.
“One of your artisty types needs to make a cartoon drawing of Muhammad…eating a communion wafer!
The perfect sacrilege…”
No, it would have to be a drawing of mohammad ON a communion waffer
So, reading these letters, I’ve learned that:
1) Many Catholics believe that they’re terribly persecuted and it’s considered socially acceptable to criticize Catholicism but no other religion (especially Islam).
2) Many of these same Catholics have absolutely no qualms about suggesting that people desecrate Islamic religious icons.
Wouldn’t that sort of defeat their first argument? I mean, they seem to have no trouble criticizing Islam.
Hold on, I’m misattributing logic to these people. Sorry about that.
“The only way you can get a consecrated communion wafer is to subvert the Catholics during their mass.”
Now, this is just wrong. I could go to a catholic priest I know and get one. (Let’s just say he picks his beliefs).
So much for your hypothesis, I suppose?
Ron in Houston,
I wrote of this in an earlier post, but I’ll mention it again – why do you think Dawkins’ book is called The God Delusion and not The God Belief We Don’t Agree With?
Phil #306 wrote:
Since Phil is a Catholic, he may have a valid point. You see, the substance of the letters was indeed reasonable. The parts of the letters which we could read were only the appearances, which are visible to the senses. Those may have seemed irrational, overblown, hysterical, histrionic, violent, or puerile, true — but only to the eyes of the world. And the worldly.
What they were in themselves, the underlying reality, was well reasoned.
It’s another miracle!
The Catholics are really upset about their crackers not be respected. The only proper thing to do now is continue ridiculing them relentlessly.
ref. post by SC #264:
“We should go easy on ’em. Some of these people just need to get prayed.”
Did you mean prayed, or ‘preyed’?
Posted by: The502 | July 11, 2008 9:54 PM
No, they fully believe that the blessed Eucharist is the Body of Christ. They are simply expecting civil law authorities to enforce a crime that exists within their spiritual tenets. They think that the government should protect their beliefs from dissent, rather than maintain an environment in which they are free to believe them, which is the main conflict. As a former catholic, I would merely scoff at what the kid did with the communion wafer. If he chooses to do that with it, then he has the right. It is not valuable in the monetary sense, and therefore, this crime is a moral one at best, but is certainly not within the jurisdiction of the civil law enforcement officers to enforce.
He disrespected your faith – get over it. Excommunicate him, expel him from church proceedings, and criticize him as you wish, but know that you have no right to demand criminal proceedings against him, because your religious beliefs do not – in any way – have any legal standing that would allow you to prosecute this man for his actions.
I just consider rude, crude, ignorant behavior such as “PZ” has exhibited to be a major problem in the U.S. – certainly a bigger problem than transubstantiation.
______
Transubstantiation is not a problem, it does not exist.
PZ is neither ignorant or crude, as he is well informed and elegantly and joyfully precise in his surgical slicing up bull shit and then cathartically flushing it away. And he is reputed to be a very polite and gentle man in person. Cleverly presented satire is not being rude.
“Why are your people so fowl towards Catholics?”
I guess that PZ just couldn’t help ‘crowing’ about it. : D
DingoDave @ #342
I believe his joke was a take on “they need to get laid“.
Not many Catholics know that before the 8th century, it was “just a cracker” (or more like a broken off hunk of bread). The basic voodoo principle of transubstantiation came later [ref] as more and more bogus philosophy worked backwards to justify the religion. It is time someone stood up and told Catholics that they have been taught a bunch of mumbo-jumbo that has no basis in either history or fact (thank you, PZ).
It is just a cracker. Get over it.
Sastra wrote:
Emphasis mine – that pretty describes the bible, doesn’t it? And that the word of their ‘loving’ god. No wonder they have warped values.
I see some trolls have made it to the table. Do we feed them or not?
Maybe we can give them a holy cracker, assuming they go for the cannibalism schtick.
I do have to admit I am confused by the Egnor comment (250) – is that satire, is it written to the cracker-worshippers, or are we supposed to take that loon – excuse me, whackjob – Egnor seriously?
WE RESPECT OTHERS AND WE EXPECT THE SAME FROM ANYONE ELSE. ITS EXPECTED OF MOST PEOPLE IF NOT ALL PEOPLE’S TO RESPECT OTHERS.
The point is that the era of respect for irrationality and superstition is ending. You should respect people on things they don’t choose, but you don’t have respect them for things that they do choose, such as beliefs and actions. No longer can some beliefs, no matter how idiotic, be immune from criticism.
Desecrating a communion wafer is a form of political speech viz-a-viz United States law.
See my nice summary of this affair:
http://neuraltransmissions.wordpress.com/2008/07/11/on-sacred-cows-and-sacred-crackers/
Criminy, Ron, you have really lost the flick.
This entire hullabaloo arose from DEATH THREATS to a cad, from fellow catholics. A CATHOLIC doofus, who wanted to show his pal the Holy Snack. He was assaulted (an actual crime, regardless of the place or ceremony) and his life was threatened (another actual crime), as well as his matriculation (he’s very close to completion). PZ riffs on this in a pretty transparently sarcastic manner. For some people sarcasm is hard to understand – but if you have to explain it…
Your concerns are pitiful and stupid. Your sense of proportion, like all these catlick hate emailers, is so out of whack it’s inconceivable that you could interact with other humans without being constantly bullied. I’ll believe you about being atheist, but I suspect you’re in the closet. Perhaps you’re also a Log Cabin Republican?
brokenSoldier @ #343
Well formulated, good points!
Sorry, 300 was intended as a parody of Rob “no death threats here” Sterling. I thought my dismissal of clear death threats as somehow ambigious, and torture in Hell as “readjustment therapy” rather than a violent threat in its own right would have been sufficiently over the top to indicate parody. No way around Poe :(
Sastra #340
Hallelujah! The scales have fallen from my eyes. I have seen the light. I will sacrifice a virgin or two for the greater glory of whichever deity is appropriate.
No, wait! If I become a Catholic I’d have to get my vasectomy reversed. It was bad enough getting the damn thing in the first place.
Never mind. The scales are back in place.
No shit. I grew up in the Episcopal church. As I said, you are clueless. But even if I had not spent 30+ years going to church anyone following the comments in these threads would have a very good idea of the hoops that are jumped through to follow the dogma of the faith.
I would point out that the trick of the stunt that Dr. Myers had mentioned would be to not disrupt the service. Take communion but palm rather than eat the host. If a person is spotted I suspect they can just eat the host, or claim a dry throat or some such story to excuse the delay in consumption.
And, big freaking deal, it is just baked dough. Some churches use wafers, ours uses homemade organic wheat bread, but it is still just bread.
So I still wonder why did you lie about what PZ proposed.
#98:
Is that a doom reference? major props.
#351 got it right.
Ron. Nobody cares about your whiny pissant concern. Take it elsewhere.
“It’s analogous to responding to the Muslim hysteria over the cartoons by drawing a stick figure with an arrow and the word “Mohammed” pointing to it — and posting it on a blog.”
Here’s something that just occurred to me. All the people who are freaking out about the mere prospect of some atheists desecrating a holy object, would they freak out this bad if the above was our plan? To wantonly take up a pencil and depict the prophet Mohammed? Would we get the same pearl-clutching about that? My guess is no, we wouldn’t. Because few of them know any Muslims and so they don’t really care that they would likely take that sort of thing just as seriously as host desecration. And anyway, that was a Free Speech issue, oh yes.
“And you’re only saying this becaue people like me, who like thin mints, are so motherfucking peaceful. I should take you out back and kick your ass, you hate-filled hatemongering hate criminal”
Sounds like someone’s got a case of Tagalong Envy.
Oh, and Blake? Don’t leave! You’re the undisputed pwner of this thread! What, some party is more important than us? I’ll pray for you, motherprayer!
(That Instant Rimshot site is great, but it really ought to be a Windows sidebar gadget instead, or maybe even a button on my computer)
For all you people who say, “for gosh sakes it’s only a *fill in expletive* cracker, you only show your total ignorance.
PZ didn’t just say it’s a cracker. He said, “hey all you dumb fuck atheists out there” go get me a real consecrated communion wafer and I’ll make a demented fuckwit out of myself and post myself on the internet desecrating it.
This morning I was pissed off at the people who would dare to mess with PZ and his job. This afternoon I’m pissed off at PZ for being such a fuckwit and not immediately retracting his call for people to go fuck with the Catholics.
All you dumbass sycophants who laugh and pat PZ on the back going “good one PZ” are a disgrace. Sorry for all the fucking profanity but it seems that most of the atheists on this blog don’t get the point unless it’s preceded by a least one “fucking” word of profanity.
I believe Ron when he says he’s an atheist. It’s a framing thing.
God, damn.
I could really go for some zombie messiah carpaccio right now.
Jonathon Swift couldn’t’ve done a better job of showing just how absurd religion is. I thought the Big End/Little End dispute in Gulliver’s Travels was good, but this crackergate has it beat!
#359
http://www.kobrascorner.com/philo/fuckyourwafers.png
Who cares what PZ did? Look at that shit. That’s some hardcore blasphemy right there. And it was all ME.
@ 359
Swear words make the baby Jesus cry.
Swear words make the baby Jesus cry.
mmmmm, them’s good jebus tears.
*slurp*
LOL
What a bunch of lunatics.
Ron, it sounds like we are getting closer to your root problems. Now tell me, how is your relationship with your father?
/freud
I could really go for some zombie messiah carpaccio right now.
It’s better if you get it fresh off the cross. After two thousand years, zombie flesh gets a little slimy.
Who cares what PZ did? Look at that shit. That’s some hardcore blasphemy right there. And it was all ME.
fuck, man, don’t post it HERE, go send the link to your local newspaper, and to Bill Donowhore!
I’ll pray for you Ron
Ron, please.
You’re going to bust a vein going around being that angry at people. Why don’t you just chill out, sit down and have a.. cracker!
/freud
Christmas Freud? HAPPY!
PZ didn’t just say it’s a cracker. He said, “hey all you dumb fuck atheists out there” go get me a real consecrated communion wafer and I’ll make a demented fuckwit out of myself and post myself on the internet desecrating it.
Your totally exaggerated characterization notwithstanding, did you stop for even one minute and go back to the biginning and ask yourself why PZ went to the lengths of ridicule he did in this case?
Hint 1: “It doesn’t matter” is the wrong answer.
Hint 2: Look up “proportional response”.
Ron, so far all you have contributed is “you’re wrong. Youre wrong. Youre Wrong.”
Plus mischaracterizations and lies… you’ve contributed some of those too.
Bottom line is, all PZ did was state a simple truth. Thinking a cracker is a deity is crazy.
You’ve argued that such beliefs have to be respected, that its wrong to call a spade a spade, that people are rude and horrible for pointing out simple obvious truths and calling out crazy dangerous bullshit…
and you’ve lied and mischaracterized and built straw men.
This is what you’ve contributed. Lies, and pleas for the acceptance of insane, violent bullshit.
YOU don’t like what I’ve posted… calling you a troll. Well, you are a troll. You are the classic definition of a troll. You post comment after comment reiterating the same dishonest points, you deliberately ignore any responses that point out your falsehoods, and you continue spread the same bullshit.
You are a dishonest, tedious troll. If you don’t like what I’ve written, please DO read it again… and again.
Oh! So now we finally get to the truth of it. MAJeff is a chip slinging slut.
So Meester, white chocolate, and Meester, mint chocolate how is it that you sashay past Harlot – straight on to Slut? Does your mincing, fancy pants OM just haul that big one out?
I taunt you for a second time. Your uncles fondle moleskin!
John
Yeah, I’m an ex Episcopalian also. However to go up and palm the wafer is just a juvenile fucking stunt. Do you really want to be associated with that?
What he’s calling people to do is just stupid. It’s hateful and ignorant.
Look, I’m all for calling out the absurdity of transubstantiation and how the idea of a God that demands a blood sacrifice as just an absurd prospect. However calling people to perform juvenile fucking stunts just so you can prove your intellectual superiority is just as fucking intellectually absurd as what the theists believe.
Yes, there are ways he could obtain a consecrated host that aren’t the direct result of deception and juvenile behavior. However, it is still just as absurd, stupid, and juvenile as the belief of theists.
If we want to throw stones at others then we shouldn’t live in glass houses.
Ron in Houston, you still haven’t answered my question. Here it is again:
Why do you think Dawkins’ book is called The God Delusion and not The God Belief We Don’t Agree With?
All you jackass pansy Catholics who are trying to outsource your violence to muslims because you like to think of yourselves as “tolerant” can eat a bowl of dicks. Grow a pair, you bunch of wankers.
If you want to threaten somebody, do it. This “hinting” shit is just pathetic and sad. You’ve all fallen so far from the Inquisition and the Crusades. Afraid of your own shadows.
Pick a fuckin’ testament and stick with it already. We’ll laugh at you either way.
He said, “hey all you dumb fuck atheists out there” go get me a real consecrated communion wafer and I’ll make a demented fuckwit out of myself and post myself on the internet desecrating it.
*looks for quoted section in any of PZ’s posts*
hmm, nope.
your fantasy world is LARGE, Ron.
Now swear some more, so I can get this consecrated wafer I’m holding to cry more tears.
yuuummmmy.
Ron –
I wish PZ would talk about his “desecration” comment. To me, it looked like a “stop picking on the kid I’ll show you desecration” to take some of the heat for the kid. Maybe he could apologize. It would be nice to always take the high road. But after seeing what ends up in his email, I’m not sure I could be as rational as he is being.
I sometimes think it’s cruel to bait trolls like this… but then I read the email PZ gets…
So, PZ, when are you getting around to the Koran thing? I hear Salman Rushdie has a spare bedroom…
#369
I hope some Fundie sees it. It’s not like they can find out where I live. Unlike PZ, I’m VERY careful about the information I give out. Paranoid, even.
Maybe if they realize that there are people with a worse attitude in the world than PZ Myers could ever muster (he seems like such a nice fellow), then it might put things into perspective.
OR, more likely, I’m being far too optimistic.
#75 –
Shouldn’t that have been “Cheesuits”??
After that particularly charming branch of cat’licking assasins.
how is it that you sashay past Harlot – straight on to Slut?
I put out…often.
Who’s making money on these wafers, anyways?
A box of those little (unconsecrated) crackers costs $17.95! How many saltines can you get for that kind of cash?
Follow the money, baby.
While waiting for PZ to deliver, have you read Aristotle on mollusc reproduction?
Not many Catholics know that before the 8th century, it was “just a cracker” (or more like a broken off hunk of bread). The basic voodoo principle of transubstantiation came later [ref] as more and more bogus philosophy worked backwards to justify the religion. It is time someone stood up and told Catholics that they have been taught a bunch of mumbo-jumbo that has no basis in either history or fact (thank you, PZ).
It is just a cracker. Get over it.
Maybe he could apologize.
sure he COULD, but why SHOULD he.
that was entirely rhetorical, btw, since obviously he shouldn’t, given the perfect response garnered from all the nutbags.
why on earth would someone attempt to stop the ridiculous from so publicly shooting themselves in the face?
I think you’ll see an apology from PZ right around the time the CC decides to voluntarily dissolve itself as an organization.
In short, you aren’t seeing the big picture here.
He IS taking the “high road”, and it requires donning a fucking firesuit to survive it.
Here’s a leading contestant for Most Clueless Catholic Correspondent:
If you have grievances with the Church, explain your position in a public forum. That’s the American thing to do.
The brain boggles. How do professional satirists keep up?
Are you upset because your boyhood priest didn’t show you any love?
Unholy Shit!
I just had to skip straight from that bit, over all the comments, and say that I just blew juice out of my nose laughing at the incredible irony and SELF-HATRED this person must have.
WOW.
Please do NOT desecrate the Eucharist in any way. Please, I beg you to NOT damage what is So PRECIOUS to me.
Is this the religious version of this ?
LEAVE THE CRACKER ALONE!
I think my favorite is the guy who claims to have an IQ in the 99th percentile all while making fallacious claims about religion, evolution, history and the proper usage of grammar.
If you have grievances with the Church, explain your position in a public forum. That’s the American thing to do.
The brain boggles. How do professional satirists keep up?
ROTLFLMAO!!!
that indeed, is the goddamned funniest post I’ve seen so far.
thanks.
unfortunately, it’s only hilarious in context, otherwise I’d say it’s a keeper.
These threads have made me incredibly sad.
I’m sad for the poor state of humanity that we can, post enlightenment, be arguing (to the point of threats of physical violence no less) about the relative moral merits of performing an action on what is (regardless of the symbolic value placed upon it), nought but a piece of bread.
It is an insight into the frailty of the human mind that we can so easily confound words/symbols/ideas/objects/deeds into one and the same.
I am sad, because I thought we lived in a rational age, and I was wrong.
Does anyone else feel like they’re watching Scooby-Doo when Ron in Houston participates in a thread?
I just keep seeing the same post over and over and over again. Please, make him stop! I beg you.
Fatwa envy.
Perfect.
I am sad, because I thought we lived in a rational age, and I was wrong.
actually, you should be glad. Now you know how much work we really have to do to keep these delusionauts from robbing you of your last illusions that you live in a rational age.
don’t get sad, get even.
#394
“I am sad, because I thought we lived in a rational age, and I was wrong.”
A certain level of wisdom can come from repeatedly being wrong… or maybe that was pessimism; I forget which.
Wowbagger
I didn’t respond because I basically agree that belief in God is a form of delusion.
However, unlike a lot of people, I don’t ridicule and call people “demented fuckwits” because they suffer from a delusion.
There’s a maxim that something really isn’t a lie if you believe that it’s true.
I sometimes deal with people who honestly believe that the CIA are tapping their phones. Do I call them demented fuckwits and screw with their delusions? No, I’m nice, kind and try to being them make them realize that their belief is not supported by evidence.
PZ’s post was unadulterated bull shit. You can call me a troll or whatever, but I think he did a disservice to athiests with his post.
Paul, why are you persecuting Me?
Gotta admit that was a good one. Haha.
When I find myself in times of trouble, Mother Mary comes to me, speaking words of wisdom,”Let It Be”…….I’ll get my coat.
I know that this is late, but I wanted to say that I wholeheartedly support you, PZ. I have been offended by things others have said in the past, and I love them for it (well, some of it anyway– can get too nasty). People need to grow up a bit, I think.
This is just way out of hand for insulting a damned cracker. We make fun of people who panic when they break mirrors, or who play the lottery, so why can’t we make fun of people who believe patently inane things? We all are at the receiving end of such mockery at some point or another, and ideally, it helps us hone our beliefs. Here it is, some people are willing to extinguish another human life over a percieved insult to a piece of wannabe bread, and they expect to be treated with respect for that? I’m sorry, but no.
I do understand that there’s a lot of Catholics out there who aren’t nearly so rabid about this, and power to them for their sanity. Thank you for not being the scum of the society, and for keeping things in perspective.
Dear Concern Troll,
You just don’t get it, do you. You think that PZ went too far and upset the poor, persecuted Catholics. You fail to realize that PZ was responding to assault and death threats aimed at that kid in Florida. PZ was angry, probably more angry than you are.
Now PZ has received death threats. We haven’t heard a peep out of you condemning the criminals making those threats. Instead, you keep whining because your sense of decorum has been violated. Get over yourself. The universe does not revolve around you. People do not have to act the way you want them to. Your complaint has been noted but no action is likely to be taken.
BTW, if you respond to this post, don’t bother to use foul language. I spent 20 years in the Navy. If you’re trying to shock me, I’ve heard it before. If you’re trying to impress me, I’ve heard it done a lot better. And if you’re trying to persuade me to your point of view, that’s not the way to go about it.
You know what, Ron?
it WOULD be a juvenile stunt.
But YOU and the Catholics seem to be the only people who are taking his comment seriously. Everyone else sees it as a joke.
But lets say someone really does it. What is it then? A juvenile stunt.
You’re upset to the point of bursting a bloodvessel over the remote possibility that someone might do a juvenile stunt.
Are you that upset over the threats to that kids’ life? To his education? To PZ’s life? To his employment?
You’re a fucking fool, Ron. There are plenty of things worth being upset about, a theoretical juvenile stunt is not one of them.
You know another term for “juvenile stunt?” “98% of American Popular Culture.”
You’re apoplectic over the possibility of a stunt that’s not even outrageous enough to make the outtakes for the typical MTV show.
Get a fucking grip. Stop drinking that Texas water or something.
Interesting email. A lot of “you’re going to hell” and “I’m praying for you” and “why don’t you pick on the Muslims instead of us”. Also, lots of misspelled words and capital letters. Catholics are pretty much the same as the Fundies. They’re all uneducated hicks.
I would just like to point out to all those saying “I dare him to desecrate a Koran” that the only reason PZ is safer with you Catholics is because of the secular laws of the US, not the inherent superiority of your religion.
Is this the religious version of this ?
LOL!!
damn, that’s good.
can’t believe you’re the first to make that connection.
*applause*
“We’re lucky [the CC] even performs for you bastards!”
“When is it professional to publicly bash someone who’s going through a hard time.”
LOL
yeah those sex scandals have really put the CC through some hard times.
Man you should send that link to PZ, and have him use it as the start of the next inevitable thread!
Dear Religious Fucktards of the Catholic Faith,
Five hundred million children will not live to see adulthood because they’re (or will be) starving to death right now. We produce more than enough food and have the carrying capacity, if we intensely farmed only the arable land we now have under plow with modern methods (like they do in Holland), to feed 67 billion people.
Which is to say, we have the ability to do the job. We only need to supply the resources.
The Catholic Church EARNED according to the Vatican, $422 BILLION dollars (with expenses of $188 billion) in 2000. Their stock portfolio alone appreciated $125 billion in 1999. Their real estate sector ended fiscal year 2000 shows expenses of 51.852 billion and income of 81.749 billion, thus closing with a gain of 29.887 billion.
This does not include each Parrish’s income as they are separately incorporated and have their own financials. This is just the Holy See in Rome with its 2700 employees.
The combined Catholic Churches of the World, if they choose to live a Christian life, as talked about in Acts, could apply those resources to this problem. If they had the will.
With billions in profits, and billions, possibly trillions, in resources around the globe, the Catholic Church could buy a lot of tractors. They could build thousands upon thousands of hospitals, schools and low-income-housing units. In fact, it is conceivable that those resources could eradicate poverty and hunger within our lifetime if they were properly applied.
Yet, you don’t actually do much. In fact, you do so little, compared to your resources that it is, from the perspective of the Sermon on the Mount, Acts and many of the Epistles, a sin. A literal sin against the commandments of God to help your fellow man as you callously let your fellow man die of starvation while your priests live in gilded castles and live the lives of the rich and famous.
So, as Jesus said, and I’ll paraphrase, “Do not concern yourself with the mote in your neighbor’s eye, rather the plank in yours.” And with you puppies, it’s not a plank, it’s a fucking GIANT REDWOOD.
So, put up or shut up. And, please, take your faux outrage and put it where the sun doesn’t shine. You are hypocrites that, if your religion is true and your God exists, are going to burn in hell for all eternity thinking “Shit, what the hell did I do wrong?”
Damian
Get a grip on yourself. There just fucking words for gosh sake.
The most interesting thing that PZ could do would be to publish a series of pictures of desecrations, thus offering a critique (or “political satire”) of a representative sample of religions. He could grill a steak (offensive to Hindus), eat some pork, burn a communion wafer, show a stick figure drawing of Mohamed, and so on.
However to go up and palm the wafer is just a juvenile fucking stunt.
Yeah… it probably is. As was what the kid did that started this whole thing in the first place. We agree up to that point… and this is where you go far off the trail. It’s what happened after that that is the point. What the Catholics did after that was more than just juvenile, it was insane over-reaction that bordered on, if not crossed over to, criminal. And it is this action that begat the mockery and derision of PZ. And dammit rightfully so. What happened after the “juvenile act” outrageous. Where’s your outrage at that behavior?
As I already said… proportional response. Get over it.
btw, did you ever see Seth Green’s response?
someone needs to do a CC response in the same vein.
How am I in any way associated with that?
So even if his gathering of host doesn’t involve others sending them to him it is silly, or are you arguing that he should take this path?
I don’t see this as involving throwing stones or glass houses. It is simply a graphic display that what one considers sacred, others might consider a (very) light snack.
And that those who profess to follow a religion of unconditional love and acceptance probably should not physically assault people in church, send death threats to them or try to get them expelled if they violate the dogma the follow
One last thing. I also rememeber that you lied in your description about what PZ said. That you did it more than once and that you still have not admited to that fact. Yet you feel it is your job to tell others what is proper.
Is this not a bit of a contradiction.
Bow wow.
Like dogs, they, and us (to some appreciable degree) answer the barking from down the street with a similar plaint. Bow wow.
Gary Larson drew a great cartoon depicting a scientist equipped with a device for translating canine declarations. Through his headphones he heard the endless translation, “Hey! Hey! Hey!”
Of all the crackers in all the places, I had to run into you, you communion wafer. How dare you not make me ingest you as the lord intended. Now, stop avoiding my molars and enjoy the feeling of my salivary amylase digesting your flesh, feel the joy as you rush down my esophagus and through the cardiac sphincter into my stomach. As you mix in well with the rest of the chyme, don’t forget to take that detour through the pyloric sphincter into my duodenum, were most of your flesh will be completely broken down. Don’t let the usable 12% left over make you feel too sad, because the ilium and jejunum will take care of that. As you make your way through the cecum into my large intestine, don’t forget to take a look at that blind pinhole that leads to the appendix, which sadly you’ll never see. Take a perstalsis induced ride through the ascending, transverse, descending, and sigmoid colon and don’t fear the rectal drop, because soon, you’ll be in a fancy porcelaine bowl, and eventually in a large sewer with many of your friends, including perhaps one that worked its way through Bill Donohue.
For those who think that PZ is being threatened I would ask: do you really honestly take it seriously? Obviously not. I don’t see him going into hiding, hiring security, asking for police protection, or taking any special precautions. He, and all of you, know that PZ is perfectly safe attacking Catholicism. Some of the “threats” are obviously pranks or perhaps even hoaxes perpetrated by fellow atheists to make Catholics look bad. Likewise, everyone, including PZ, knows that if he in fact did desecrate a Quran he would be in fear of his life. Also if he did express a belief in intelligent design at a biology convention he would be in fear of his job. So please spare us the mock horror. He obviously does not care at how hurtful his actions are towards others, so why should be express shock that some people don’t like him?
It is interesting that so many liberals demand “respect” for all points of view, especially their own, and yet give none to their opponents. If PZ did something like this to another group his university would discipline him. That’s a fact and you all know it. Now he gets to play the poor little martyr while in fact being a persecutor. Such hypocrisy is stunning even by modern liberal standards. His little hissy fit has fed his desire to be noticed. Teens often try to do things to shock their parents. I would have to say that PZ is unsuited for teaching. Maybe when he becomes an adult and a professional that might change. Hopeful his university will decide that he needs a “time out.” Perhaps he could write 1000 times on the blackboard: “I will try to act like an responsible adult.”
Late to the party (again!), but…
Up at #119 (or thereabouts), concerning Holy Water–I can’t find the exact article wherein I recently read that there’s a serious problem with bacteria-contaminated Holy Water, but a quick Google turned up these:
Holy water : a risk factor for hospital-acquired infection (abstract) http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=3043354 , and
Holy water fonts are reservoirs of pathogenic bacteria (abstract) http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/bsc/emi/2002/00000004/00000010/art00008
If this were representative of Holy Water in general, then I think we would need to consider the homeopathic harming power of diluted Holy Water, rather than its healing power.
I also see a certain irony in the use of possibly contaminated Holy Water for washing the crumbs of the consecrated wafers off of the ritually prescribed vessels.
Wow. Just…wow. People cannot understand the very meaning of ‘free speech’.
Not even gonna read anymore. These people are not worth my time. And that’s coming from a lowly undergraduate…
“He IS taking the “high road”, and it requires donning a fucking firesuit to survive it.”
Sorry, I wasn’t clear. The high road in an argument, to me, means never letting them get to you, never mocking them (even if they deserve it), never trying to annoy them (even though it is fun).
Unfortunately, doing that in this case is completely fucking pointless, as his hate mail shows. These people are *not* going to argue rationally, and they will *never* listen to reason. So it is understandable for PZ (and anyone) to give up on trying to be nice (& framing it for their consumption.)
So, yes, I really would prefer not to upset people. I can’t help it, it’s stuck in my brain somehow. However, I’m not stupid, and realize that rational behavior has gotten atheists exactly nowhere. PZ is taking the steps that need to be taken & getting the heat for it. And I will support him in that.
Ron, I’ve been well acquainted with mental patients myself.
I have known many delusional people. One who killed himself because of the “future people” talking to him through his TV.
When dealing one-on-one with a delusional person, you should not brusquely point out his delusions. But that its NOT the situation here.
When dealing with a massive organization which has political power, affects public policy, and is intentionally trying to destroy a person’s education, and more… you MUST point out that this organization, this oppresive powerful group, is based on delusion.
If you can’t see the difference, its because your ego won’t let you in the face of others’ contradiction and criticism of you.
I’ve spent time in TX, I’ve experienced how Texans are about such things…. if you’re like any of the Texans I knew, it’s impossible for you to admit you’re wrong.
Christ, what a bunch of douchebags.
My thoughts exactly.
I would just like to say, for the record, “Fuck Islam. Muhammad was a transvestite. Allah is pretend.”
Posted by: Ron in Houston | July 11, 2008 7:58 PM
Shit. I thought the whiny concern troll left. If there were even an argument to get the blood going. But no… Just fucking whining… Like a three-year-old who isn’t getting his cookie…
Seriously, dude, we get it. You don’t approve.
None of us care. Good bye.
“So, yes, I really would prefer not to upset people. I can’t help it, it’s stuck in my brain somehow. However, I’m not stupid, and realize that rational behavior has gotten atheists exactly nowhere. PZ is taking the steps that need to be taken & getting the heat for it. And I will support him in that.”
See, that’s the thing… when he calls them demented I don;t think he’s silly enough to think he’s going to shake them out of it.
When dealing with people who are a thousand degrees past reason, you can’t talk to them… you have to talk ABOUT them… point at them and show the obvious to the people sitting on the fence.
And people on the fence are likely to think “Geez, PZ Myers is kinda rude… and holy crap those Catholics are fucking deranged.”
Job done.
There[sic] just fucking words for gosh sake.
no, these are fucking words:
intercourse (very woody)
penis (kinda tinny)
vagina
sheathing the sword
midnight dancing
getting pounded
horizontal mambo
…
Er watch yourself PZ…
“if your college wont fire you ill come out there and take care of the problem for them”
I don’t like the sound of some of these MagicCrackerLoons you’ve attracted.
We atheists have no use for martyrs…
OK, I read a few more. I couldn’t resist. In one breath they say “HOW DARE YOU THREATEN MY BELIEFS” and in the next they offer to send you a Koran to crap on or ask you to eat a pork sandwich in a mosque? They don’t see the contradiction at all, do they?
As Jon Stewart says, “It’s always funny until it’s your guy, isn’t it?”
As an atheist it REALLY upsets me there’s no hell for these folks. I WISH they actually had it right.
I doubt many of the e-mailers are real Catholics, because nobody has called PZ “hijo de puta”. I would also imagine that many of these right-wingers have a history of railing against “political correctness”. Thirdly, they are up in arms over PZ satirically threatening to desecrate a wafer, but would be the first to claim that certain rightards who say that muslims should be converted at gunpoint (while American men and women are embroiled in a conflict that was supposed to liberate and democratize muslims, no less) were only joking.
IOKIYAAR.
Ron in Houston #327 wrote:
I agree with you that entering a church and taking a blessed communion wafer under false pretenses isn’t right. Technically, it’s unethical. I don’t think PZ should have suggested it, and was a bit surprised he did. He was very careful to tell people that he didn’t want them to sneak in to see Expelled without paying, and from what I remember didn’t either suggest or endorse paying for another movie, and then sneaking in, either.
However, I think we are perhaps getting into the ethical area where one commits a minor wrong in order to help right a larger wrong — which is taking a minor wrong and treating it like a MAJOR wrong. Quietly slipping a communion wafer out of the mouth is considered an act of violence and kidnapping, a personal assault, with commensurate penalties? That’s unethical, too, and I think that needs to be pointed out.
But it is undercut a bit by the fact that anyone who “scores PZ some consecrated communion wafers” is beginning with that minor wrong. You’re right.
Of course, the whole point the Catholics are making is that this is NOT a minor wrong. And the point on the other side is that OH YES IT IS.
It’s just a cracker. A frackin’ cracker.
Well, if PZ had asked me beforehand if he should ask people to sneak something out of a church, I would have said no. But, he didn’t ask me. And I understand his point, his argument, and the issue. I also see how the reaction to his threat is every bit as overblown as the original reaction he was reacting to.
So it’s not that you’re completely wrong here. You may even be right. It’s that the situation seems to be complicated by other factors which may cancel the first one. The unworthy shall not have the host. If an unworthy TAKES the host, that’s wrong. If an unworthy tapdances on the host, I don’t care. Blasphemy is not a crime. The Catholics seem to be just as upset — more upset — over the tapdancing. That’s apparently the part that’s now being focused on, both sides.
And I’m more sure of my ground there.
So where are we? The end justifies the means? A minor fault to correct a major one? Maybe. This isn’t quite like drawing Mohammed, because anyone can draw Mohammed. It’s not like it only counts if you use the special holy pen which must be snitched. Don’t like the snitching part.
If it were up to me, I’d rather PZ not do anything childish on a video either. I remember that atheist who wrote the naturalistic philosophy book and then went on UTube and put dog poop on a Bible. It undercut his image as a scholar, and it was hard to take him seriously anymore.
intercourse (very woody)
penis (kinda tinny)
vagina
sheathing the sword
midnight dancing
getting pounded
horizontal mambo
PLAY TIME!!!!
#361/385 – w00+ speaks! Dammit, my old knees can’t take falling out of my chair twice in one evening.
MAJeff – ahh, I see, experiance claims the prize! I serve you more grog & swill. SLUT!!! ;)
I don’t see him going into hiding, hiring security, asking for police protection
you mean, like the Catholic church in question did when someone took home a fucking cracker?
It appears about half the letters are heart-felt responses from those hurt and insulted by the original piece. Fair enough. The rest, I think, are simply frightened. Notice how many immediately reference Muslims, or the Quran. America has never been more polarized, thanks to its toxic leadership that panders to people’s fears and insecurities. And that same toxic leadership breeds and enables toxic fearbots like Donohue. To those who cling to their religion for comfort in an ever more quickly changing and shrinking world, removal of their perceived “protection” from Muslims, homosexuals, and yes, even “evolutionists”, must truly be an event summoning extreme measures, even death threats. After all, it’s their very lives they believe to be fighting for.
The tactic of using religion to rule has been increasingly abused in America, to the point where an insult to religion draws an exaggerated response from the Christian right, ironically similar to that of the Muslim extremists they fear. The mixing of religion and government as an end to power is doomed to fail. The question is, will it destroy our nation as it so predictably has in other regions of the world?
Craig
Perhaps I’m a fucking fool. I certainly don’t think that we can take a high road and lecture theists when we act like a bunch of asshats ourselves.
If that makes me a fucking fool then so be it. I’m certainly not bursting a blood vessel of going “apoplectic” over it.
Frankly, just give it up Craig. If you think anyone either theistic, atheistic or on the fence is going to be persuaded by PZ calling people demented fuckwits then you’re the fucking fool.
It appears that PZ likes to preach to a bunch of mindless sycophants who will stoke his ego and laugh at all his juvenile bullshit.
If you want to keep that up then go ahead. As for me, I’m saying that PZ doesn’t speak for me.
Oh Friar J, I do hope your post was a joke. Liberalism is not the issue here. You are so deep in your hole, you can’t see straight.
PZ (and like minded individuals) do not “demand “respect” for all points of view”. That would be a dumb position. Some people think it is okay to molest their children or young church members. Who would demand respect for that point of view?
PZ made fun of your silly beliefs. I am sure it hurts, but he has every right to not respect thinking a cracker in any context has any great importance.
Finally, do you and others urging PZ to insult Islamic beliefs (which I am sure he has done) realize how hypocritical that is?
Believing in the demonstrably untrue does not deserve any respect.
He was very careful to tell people that he didn’t want them to sneak in to see Expelled without paying
because that would be a very real crime. taking away a cracker that is given to you? not a crime.
or did you somehow forget that small difference?
Ironically, you don’t catch flies with honey. The like rotting shit. Which may include naturally produced vinegar as the sugars corrupt.
But, from a broad, historical perspective, being nice to the religious hasn’t seem to have paid any dividends. Just ask the Jews. Or any other people who thought to ingratiate themselves with a dominant faith.
It has been shown that if you pay them tribute, they’ll ask for more and rape your women, kill your children and desecrate your faith while destroying your civilization. History has shown us that through-out the Americas – North, Central and South. And in Africa, Asia Minor and even in Europe. Even when the people were countrymen, neighbors and relatives.
In other words, may as well fight the bastards. They’re out for you anyway.
I have not read all the comments, so I don’t know if someone has said this already, but WHAT THE FUCK EVER HAPPENED TO “TURN THE OTHER CHEEK”!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If it were up to me, I’d rather PZ not do anything childish on a video either.
I’m sure I speak for the vast majority who actually understand the point of the effort in saying:
It’s a good thing it’s not up to you.
If that makes me a fucking fool then so be it. I’m certainly not bursting a blood vessel of going “apoplectic” over it.
All evidence to the contrary…
Ron in Houston, wrote:
Fair enough – and thanks for responding. But I will explain what I’ve been alluding to in asking that question. I suspect he picked the word ‘delusion’ because that’s more inflammatory. Why would he do that? To have people react to that title, and draw more attention to it.
Why would he do that? Because his goal in writing the book was, at least in part, to show how foolish religious beliefs are. The believers reacted to this in such a way that it only helped Dawkins’ cause – illustrating that even religions that pretend to be modern and progressive are mired in antique superstition and nonsense. And aren’t as keen on peace and love as they claim.
PZ has done the same thing. He saw an opportunity to criticise religion in such a way that the believers he was criticising would come a-running to defend it, and, in doing so, remind people of exactly how stupid their beliefs are, and how hypocritical the violent and hateful adherents of a religion that claim forgiveness as a cornerstone can be. He gave them rope; they hanged themselves.
A magic biscuit? That becomes Jesus’ flesh? Threatening a kid’s life over that? Threatening a blogger for pointing it out as extreme?
I’d say that if one theistic ‘fence-sitter’ read any of the vast number of blogs or articles about this event started to think about how bizarre it is to believe in something like transubstantiation, and then turned that analysis on their own beliefs, PZ (like Dawkins) has achieved his goal – even if they don’t free themselves from their faith.
Simply put: he wants people to think more about religion – and you can’t argue he hasn’t done that.
I think all the Christians and all the Muslims should have a big fight, and settle once and for all who’s got the better system.
That should turn out pretty well.
Ron@435
Living in a modern, educated society and believing that overpriced dry crackers become the literal flesh of a 2000 year old zombie when enchanted by a man in a funny hat IS demented fuckwittery.
‘Round here, we call a spade a spade, son.
Fr. J said:
Come on, Fr. J, even you don’t believe this. Why don’t you grow some balls for once in you life and actually condemn the people that have threatened to either blow up PZ’s car, or put a bullet in him. Stop it with all of this, “hoaxes perpetrated by fellow atheists to make Catholics look bad”, nonsense. Do you realize just how pathetic and morally bankrupt that sounds?
And I see that you are indulging in some Fatwa Envy, as well.
Fr. J said:
I’m not interested in your respect. If I want it, I’ll expect to earn it, and you can say anything that you like to me, I couldn’t care less.
And you will not earn my respect until you actually produce an honest argument. That’s the deal. You better get used to it.
So, from Father J, we once again get the message: Death threats, no big deal. Mistreating a cracker, BAAAAD. And on and on it goes.
Also, no one here thinks that all “points of view” should be “respected”. That’s a straw man created out of your inability to separate ideas from people.
“See, that’s the thing… when he calls them demented I don;t think he’s silly enough to think he’s going to shake them out of it.” (craig)
um… I didn’t expect them to shake out of it. I *agree* with you that you have to point out the ridiculousness of their claims (and especially their stunning hypocrisy.)
#439: Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, Scopes Trial… need I go on?
Perhaps I’m a fucking fool
perhaps, Ron?
perhaps you meant that rhetorically?
And people on the fence are likely to think “Geez, PZ Myers is kinda rude… and holy crap those Catholics are fucking deranged.”
Job done.
It’s good to see there are many here that actually DO get the point of this exercise.
It’s enough.
Gee you’re stupid. If you’ve received death threats, you don’t advertise your security precautions. They are meant to be a surprise and they are supposed to work.
I would not be spending a lot of time around PZ’s house late at night.
And BTW, they are highly illegal and the cops will investigate and arrest the criminals. Happened to me once and the FBI picked them up and they were indicted on felonies.
Ok I’m here. Who’s on the spit and who’s turning the crank?
What is wrong with you people? You’re all filling this thread with your perverse carnal lusts for oatmeal cookies. I don’t know why you think you’ll get away with your oatmeal agenda, but there are good, decent people in this country who still know that a cookie is defined as a crisp minty wafer encased in chocolate. Yeah, you’ll deny it, but pretty good about picking out who the oatmeal lovers are. I think this has something to do with the Jews — everyone knows they’re running Hollywood and filling our kids’ heads with the idea that oatmeal cookies are supposed to be “tolerated”. Look, most Americans love Thin Mints, guys like MAJeff want a brawl. He should be careful what he wishes for because there are those who pine to deliver. Watch what you say; I love you and I’ll pray for all of you.
“As for me, I’m saying that PZ doesn’t speak for me.”
Yes, yes, we fucking get that Ron. you have said it over and over and over, in several thread.
Interspersed with your lies, you have made it clear.
We understand that you don’t agree with the things PZ said. You’ve also made it repeatedly clear that you don’t agree with things PZ NEVER said but that you dishonestly attribute to him anyway.
Let it be known to all from here on out that PZ Myers does not speak for Ron. Let it hereby also be known that that the fictional PZ Myers that is the product either of Ron’s own delusion or his dishonesty also does not speak for Ron.
I’d also like to say that PZ doesn’t speak for me. He speaks for himself. *I* speak for me. And when I do, I routinely say that all religion is idiotic insane delusion.
Grow some balls, Ron. If you don’t want PZ speaking for you, don’t put him in the position of doing so, since he hasn’t done so himself.
Go start your own blog where you can kiss religious ass.
Suckers. Do you really think the administration of the University is in the dark about what PZ does in this blog? Do you really think this ‘cracker’ incident was somehow different from all the other incendiary garbage posted on this blog? Puh-leez.
Your emails mean nothing. Only actions that affect the bottom-line of the university matter. If students flock to be taught be PZ, then the university keeps him. If he loses the support of his peers, grant funding, or can’t attract students, then the university finds a reason to let him go.
I am actually here to protest something else entirely. I am tired of seeing RELIGION in the Last-24-hrs channel of scienceblogs.com. As this blog seems to be dominated by discussions regarding RELIGION, can it be removed from scienceblogs.com altogether? (The dymanic and interactions that emerge in this blog are interesting to study from a detached perspective, so maybe this blog qualifies as ‘science’ in the ‘experiment in progress’ sense of the word… Still, I think we’ve established the behavioral patterns that emerge here. Let’s end this experiment.)
Science doesn’t exist to do battle with religion. Darwin would be mortified to know with what actions PZ has associated his name. Darwin may be your hero, PZ, but he would disown you as a disciple.
Go pray for yourself, twit.
Yeah, well I’ll pray for you, asshole!
Bill, I don’t know who you are or when you got here, but if I missed you earlier I’m sorry for it.
As for me, I’m saying that PZ doesn’t speak for me.
CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAPTRAP.
No one claimed to speak for you. Ron in Houston – Is this you? “Truth is an absolute defense to libel or slander.” Is it, now?
PZ spoke the truth.
Fr. J is a troll pretending to be a priest. Nothing says they have to be smart but they weed the really stupid and crazy ones out.
@453
I can’t but help but chuckle at that.
“because that would be a very real crime. taking away a cracker that is given to you? not a crime.
or did you somehow forget that small difference”
Ichthyic is obviously socially autistic and incapable of understanding the basics of civil discourse/action.
You are a example of the extreme secular ideologue that this country has rejected and will continue to reject.
Utilitarianism is a dangerous joke, my friend, and so are you.
Science doesn’t exist to do battle with religion.
Well science better wake it’s dumb ass up then, because religion has declared war on it.
So I just went and read the Wikipedia article on transubstantiation, and now I’m convinced that people just make shit up.
And if you thought transubstantiation was wacky, check out Eucharistic adoration.
Only marginally less batshit insane than magic Mormon underpants.
Ron in Houston-
In addition to what Sastra and Craig have stated, I would remind you that there are, literally, a billion Catholics in the world. I think they’re gonna be okay. Was Myers a little out of line? Probably. But I can’t generate much sympathy for them just because some dude from the academic fringe may have insulted a small percentage of their group.
Someone said it earlier – proportional response.
“I own 4 guns. I bet liberal vermin like you don’t own any.”
That nice. This “liberal” owns 10.
“I own 4 guns. I bet liberal vermin like you don’t own any”
You talkin’ to me?
You lose. I’m an atheist, a democrat, and follow Secular Humanism, but I live in Texas…
So unless you were trying to harm me or my family, there’s no problem, Bubba. Live and let live.
Feel the Xian Love(TM)!
Huh? Like you’ve read this blog how long? Seriously. PZ bases Islam too.
Now, when it comes to “honor killings” I dispute him because he’s FUCKING WRONG to the cause. i.e., it’s not Islam, it’s FUCKING TRIBALISM and happens with people of ALL MAJOR FAITHS so STOP FUCKING SPLITTING (we’re talking the psychological concept here).
He also tends to FUCKING IGNORE that there are just as many cafeteria Muslims as any other cafeteria plan religion and that what is chosen from the religion tends to reflect the underlying cultural and economic conditions, not the other way around. Christianity, during the middle ages, was just as demented as much of Islam now.
But otherwise, yes, he does righteously bash Islam. Because too many demented fuckwits use it as a weapon for their bile. Just like these idiot Catholics are right now.
But I rant…
Well, I’m guessing that none of these pious pricks with the Islamic beheading envy have ever heard of the IRA then? Catholic to a man. And pricks too.
Behavioral Psychologist-
No, I think that science *does* exist to do battle with religion, at least partially. Science is there to explain the natural world without resorting to superstition, to drag irrational beliefs out into the daylight, and to take off the blinders that men put on themselves to make it easier to pretend the universe was designed especially for them.
Mind you, I’d like to see some more squid pictures myself.
Suck it, Jesus! It’s time for bed.
3 here. And I eat lots of meat. And as often as i can I smoke it.
Wait. Did you have a point Mr. conservative slow person?
Dear PZ, I think that you might have cause for some genuine concern regarding some of the e-mail responses that you have received about you recent articles.
For example;
“Does it make you nervous knowing that so many people are praying for you? You might just get converted!!”
According to a recent study on the power of prayer for recovering post-operative Heart patients (funded by the John Templeton Foundation), the people being prayed for did worse than the people who weren’t. Does this mean that you will become MORE of an atheist because these people are praying for you? : D
“If you really think the Blessed Eucharist is just a “farckin’ cracker” then I challenge you to do a little scientific research…In short Mr. Myers what you’ll find, if you are honest with yourself, is that you’re wrong. It’s not just a “frackin’ cracker”. It’s Him who made you.”
: D Is this one a ‘Poe’?
“Thank you for your comment regarding the desecration of the Eucharist. I am sure Jesus has heard it and will respond accordingly. It may hurt a little, but don’t worry..”
Watch out PZ, this one is threatening to sick Jesus onto you. How do I go about getting an ‘Attack Jesus’? Can I buy one at Walmart?
“You are a monster. We need another Inquisition to root out idiots like you (and anyway, the Church only excommunicated heretics and witches, then handed them over to the state for punishment. We never executed them directly). Losers like you will suffer. I hope and pray that this will loose you your job and your career.”
This guy wants to sick the Pope onto you. After all, the Pope WAS the head of the ‘Office of the Holy Inquisition’ before he got his promotion.
“Do you want to demonstrate REAL courage by desecrating a religious symbol? Make an image of Mohamed (one serious affront to Islam) then desecrate it (another even more serious affront to the “religion of peace”). Of course, that would expose your person to actual, corporeal danger. What’s the matter? Don’t you have the stomach for real confrontation?”
This guy wants to get the Muslims to do his dirty work for him.
“You are really fucked now. Lock your doors at night, and check under your car before you turn the ignition key.”
This guy must be an Italian Catholic.
“I own 4 guns. I bet liberal vermin like you don’t own any.”
This guy must belong to the ‘Guns for Jesus’ association.
“Come on down to Florida. We know how to welcome bastards like you…..with a bullet.”
Who would have guessed that the entire population of Florida was out to get you?
These are some seriously ‘Demented Fuckwits’. (TM)
Nothing “perhaps” about it. I don’t know about “fucking” because I know nothing, and could care even less, about your sex life. But “fool” is definitely there. So are “whiny,” “self-righteous,” “pompous,” “self-centered,” “preachy,” “smug” and “sanctimonious.”
“I remember that atheist who wrote the naturalistic philosophy book and then went on UTube and put dog poop on a Bible. It undercut his image as a scholar, and it was hard to take him seriously anymore.”
Exactly, and the same goes for PZ Myers — except for the fact that he has not been taken seriously for some time now.
Behavioral Psychologist @ 454
By that measure, Dispatches from the Culture Wars should be removed from ScienceBlogs, since Ed Brayton has no training in science and rarely talks about it except in the tangential sense of commenting on school curriculum issues.
The sweet irony of it all that that PeaZed is not protesting the concept of the Eucharist but rather the ridiculous and violent reaction by Catholics to people who do not share their reverence for a cracker. Predictable, a portion of the Catholic population continues to fulfill the stereotype.
Exactly, and the same goes for PZ Myers — except for the fact that he has not been taken seriously for some time now – by me.
There… fixed that for you.
“um… I didn’t expect them to shake out of it. I *agree* with you that you have to point out the ridiculousness of their claims (and especially their stunning hypocrisy.)
Posted by: mandrake
yeah Mandrake I was agreeing with you, Sorry if I wasn’t clear.
436-I didn’t urge him to desecrate the Quran. I just used it as an illustration of what we all know: he is totally safe and to claim otherwise is disingenuous at best. Also my point was that in his university, and most of the others, it is demanded in the code of conduct that one be respectful of others. Now if he wants that removed from their code so that he can be a jerk then by all means remove it. But don’t selectively prosecute disrespect. For example if he wrote something that insulted homosexuals we both know he would be suspended by now. I say level the playing field.
445 and 446-Again, you and I both know that PZ has nothing to fear. Your pretend shock and horror is embarrassing. I find liberals are the ones who issue fatwas. Usually against people like myself. The man is basically putting a huge chip on his shoulder and bumping into people daring them to knock it off. Perhaps he is compensating for being bullied as a child.
Ideas vs. people? I see a great deal of disrespect for people (and ideas). Does PZ care about the people he has insulted? I expect not. An adult argues against our belief in the most holy Eucharist. He does not insult those who hold the belief, especially if he doesn’t know them personally. Our belief in the Eucharist doesn’t hurt anyone, so one cannot claim that it is a burden on you who don’t believe. I have to say that I have never, I repeat never, had a civil argument from an atheist. Normally I am personally insulted within minutes. I don’t instigate it, so why is that? Ask yourself that question and do so honestly. Thank you and God bless.
PZ, you might as well open this thread to John A. Davison at this point, because it can’t possibly get any more fucked up than it already is.
I love it so!
Just wait until you get a hold of the presuppositionalists.
“That nice. This “liberal” owns 10.”
HAHAHAH – you idiots are exactly like the extremists that you claim to be against!
Isn’t that ironic!
There is another thing that is really hateful. Some of you profess to be with FSM, yet you eat the spaghetti with meatballs. Don’t you guys know that FSM transubstantiate into the spaghetti with meatballs? It may not be FSM, however it is FSM. Even you guys who don’t believe it shouldn’t eat it, it is extremely disrespectful and hateful. PZ, I know you have eaten spaghetti with meatballs, and I hope these Catholics get to fire you, and I wish the same for all of you who eat it.
Dan
Seriously dude, we agree. I just want people to stop laughing and slapping PZ on the back and start realizing that PZ is not doing atheists any real favors.
Kristine
Yep that’s me. No one is denying PZ’s right to say what he did. I just seem to be in a substantial minority questioning the wisdom of him saying it.
“except for the fact that he has not been taken seriously for some time now.”
Exactly. That’s why when he posted his “its a goddamned cracker” comment, nobody even noticed.
Yeah that Ayatollah Khomeini was a real liberal.
You are a example of the extreme secular ideologue that this country has rejected and will continue to reject.
at last, someone who understands me!
I was beginning to wonder.
…are you single?
@ Fr. J
I have to say that I have never, I repeat never, had a civil argument from an atheist. Normally I am personally insulted within minutes.
You want to know the funniest part in that statement? That you never consider for a moment that the reason for this might be you and not the atheist.
Chew on that a while, good friar.
“it is demanded in the code of conduct that one be respectful of others”
That’s not the same as being respectful of others’ IDEAS.
No university could exist if it demanded that no ideas be criticized.
Ichthyic #437 wrote:
I think this point was debated for about 500 comments on one of the other posts. The cracker is given only under certain conditions, which the recipient secretly intends to violate.
Not a crime, no. But a bit morally hazy. Yeah.
I’m off to bed.
“I find liberals are the ones who issue fatwas.Usually against people like myself.”
Huh. Can you name one?
You guys are doing a bang-up job representing science to everyone else as applied anti-theism. May knowledge of your movement spread across the land!
Not a crime, no.
well, then why do you compare that with people illegally entering a movie theater?
that was my point, and it has nothing to do with “moral haziness”.
Reading this blog is like reading the prose on the wall of the shitter in high school.
You people are in college?
What sophomoric and banal minds these young “atheists” have.
As a side note, I noticed that the latest “On Faith” tripe is up, and it seems to be about a non-Catholic who took communion at Tim Russert’s funeral. I saw that at least Cal Thomas got it half-right, when he said it was an empty ritual, I believe. I wonder how much Fatwa-envy (or Koran-envy) this lady will get from Billy D over her desecration of the zombie-cake.
“Not a crime, no. But a bit morally hazy. Yeah.”
Point taken. Lest I be immoral, from here on in I vow never to take, under possibly false premises, small crackers from organizations which have among their official policies the protection from prosecution of child rapists.
You guys are doing a bang-up job representing science to everyone else as applied anti-theism
funny, I must have missed the part where science was implied, even tangentially, in any of this.
oh, that’s right, you just like to imagine it is to make an irrelevant point.
like Darwin->Hitler, right?
moron.
“You guys are doing a bang-up job representing science to everyone else as applied anti-theism. May knowledge of your movement spread across the land!”
Yeah, that would be great. Thanks for understanding.
Alt Numlock –
There’s probably fewer than 300 people looking at these comments right now, and except for a few dozen curious folk, we’re probably all already atheists. There may be a “movement”, but I can promise you it’s not spreading from here.