When you are creatively bankrupt, and you want to make money off the internet, what do you do? Make a dating site, the most hackneyed idea of the modern age. The crackpots have created a dating site called “Unjected,” which is exclusively for people who haven’t been vaccinated. Imagine: in addition to getting a venereal disease, you could get measles, polio, covid, smallpox, or ebola from a date! You can trust your partner to be ignorant, deluded, and uninterested in hygiene or good health. If you’re really lucky, maybe you can go on a date with RFK jr!
The only reason they give for wanting to avoid vaccinated people is their slogan, unvaxxed are hotter
, a subjective opinion that can have no evidence to back it up. Unless, that is, they mean that the unvaxxed are more likely to run a fever.
I’m not interested in dating ever again, but if I were, education and intelligence would be my major criteria for a partner, and this is a site that excludes that category.
Would his wife, Cheryl Hines, be coming along as a chaperone?
This is actually a really great idea.
It means that the blatantly stupid and crazy people now have a flashing red neon sign on their foreheads that says, “Danger, stay away”.
Don’t walk away, run.
A way to filter out the plague rats from your orbit. We the vaxxed get our DNA altered the easier and much safer way thank you very much nutcases. We force our immune systems to do their own research on the stuff that may make you sicker or kill you.
I wonder what the unjected think of tetany or preventable cancers. Higher chances of dementia. Iron lungs. Blissfully unaware.
Shouldn’t that read “the uninjected?”
So, they plan on narrowing the gene pool further and transmitted deadly diseases to one another. What could go wrong?
Sounds like a good way to eliminate some not-so-smart people from the gene pool.
Since ha has had 3 marriages and over 40 affairs, which he brags about, the potential “chaperones” would constitute a crowd. As well as not actually being able to stop him, he even propositions women at his phony “Children’s Health Defense” “nonprofit” that helped to make him so wealthy.
https://www.sheknows.com/entertainment/articles/3111886/rfk-jr-three-women-alleged-affairs/
https://ew.com/biggest-bombshells-from-new-rfk-jr-book-11950880
stuffin @4
Problem is their recklessness will make the vaccinated sicker. Vaccines vary in effectiveness. Much of the benefit comes from herd immunity.
The more measles becomes prevalent, the higher the chance a vaccinated person contracts the virus and becomes sick. Vaccination however long ago will keep them maybe from getting super ill. Has a vaccinated person ever died from measles? Perhaps not:
https://www.today.com/health/disease/mmr-vaccine-measles-deaths-rcna200097
They can at least spread it in some cases:
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/childhood-vaccines/although-it-s-uncommon-vaccinated-people-can-spread-measles-study-finds
I agree with other commenters that said:
I hope it succeeds wildly. That may help relieve our decaying society of some absolutely destructive imbeciles!
It’s a movie trailer. I’m pretty sure it’s a parody of unvaxxed dating sites. Although in the current political climate it’s hard to tell.
Addendum. Encourage them to get guns and tell them holsters are for sissies. As they stick their magnum 44s inside their belts we can look forward to the gene pool getting improved.
Not exactly sure what’s getting weeded out in the gene pool of the ignorant and gullible, by unjected unfortunately dying due to preventable illnesses. Getting close to eugenics rhetoric there…
They do miss out on exploiting the neat evolutionary trick which gives our immune systems the ability to make up for the vastly different generation times between microbes and us known as adaptive immunity. Vaccines help weed out immunocyte genetic variants that aren’t quite matched to injected antigens and the surviving populations in B cells get more finely tuned by matching their antibody genes to potential pathogens. Pathogens can do the same thing as vaccines but at much greater cost in illness, suffering, and potential death.
In some cases measles can clean the slate on immune memory. Not a good place to be. Amnesia.
Stuff like SARS-CoV-2 seems to be awakening dormant viruses previously held at bay.
https://www.science.org/content/article/covid-19-can-wake-dormant-viruses-body-large-study-confirms
@birgerjohansson, # 10: Pretty sure their gene pool has been pissed in.
christoph, easy enough to check. So I just did.
I see it’s both a site (apps for Android and for Apple) and a prospective promotional movie.
They are crowdfunding it: Goal $100,000 USD, Raised $1,887 USD
(https://www.givesendgo.com/unjected)
Quite niche, of course.
—
I pity the fools (heh) who use/used it, but:
https://www.theverge.com/2022/7/25/23277788/unjected-anti-vax-dating-debug-mode-data-covid
@7 – Hemidactylus
According to your linked articles I am not too concerned.
-Measles infections after vaccination are rare, and there are no documented cases of healthy, fully vaccinated people dying from the virus.
-Breakthrough infections are very rare but do happen — usually because the person did not develop an immune response after vaccination (rare in healthy people) or their immunity waned over time.
-Measles transmissions from vaccinated cases, although relatively uncommon, must be considered in public health investigations, as such transmissions can contribute to outbreaks.
-The most common symptoms among the 19 transmitters with symptom information were rash (16 people), fever (11) and cough (11). Most vaccinated people who spread measles experienced milder symptoms and a shorter illness than those who weren’t vaccinated. Most often, cough, breathing, or talking likely caused measles to spread.
I’m guessing these last statements means transmission from infected vaccinated people is to unvaccinated people (causing the potential outbreak).
Fucking plague rats. Imagine claiming to be worried about a tyrannical government that will hunt you down while at the same time putting yourself into a data base that will last forever? When this data base is leaked, and it inevitably will be, it will be a great way to eliminate an awful lot of plague rats from a lot of private lives and public places. You signed up here voluntarily? You don;t get to be served/employed/treated/whatever here.
AND a great list of people to be first into the quarantine gulags when a real plague, again inevitably, comes along.
A sane society would take all these people and force vaccinate them against the everything right now so as to protect the rest of us. Then any disease caused by them in the past would be investigated , they would be charged with murder or attempted murder for starters and we could work out the rest of the list later. But that’s too much to hope for.
These irresponsible swine are the worst. More so than Magats or Nazis or anyone else. Simply because theirs is a body count that is so easy to tabulate and verify. They’ll be extra hot after I brand ’em with their vaccine certificates right on their antivax foreheads. In Minecraft or a sane society.
That is equivalent to claiming ‘A sane society must be coercive so as to protect the rest of us.’, which is, um, adjacent to certain authoritarian values.
christoph @12: Remember last summer when RFK Jr posted pictures and videos of himself swimming in a sewage-contaminated stream with his grandchildren?
They are obsessed and delusional. Pure blood and pure semen, not that they have any way of telling either apart from a sample from someone who has been vaccinated.
@ John Morales, # 13: Thanks for clarifying. Makes me happy that I’m too old for dating.
@ microraptor, # 17. Yep, I remember that. And yet a lot of MAGA types still think he’s a good choice for his job at HHS.
@15: Bodily autonomy — which includes consent and refusal of medical intervention — is an important value. You may be aware of a certain other hot button issue that it applies to. We don’t get to invoke or ignore such values based on whether we agree with the consequences for particular cases.
@ 21
Let me put it another way:
Taking away a woman’s reproductive rights or a trans person’s access to gender-affirming care is BAD.
Forcing people to take a vaccine to protect the population from life threatening diseases is GOOD.
What’s that? Hypocrisy? Double-standards? Authoritarian?
I really don’t give a fuck.
Akira @#21
I’d say it’s balancing the rights of the individual against the rights of the community they live in, and I come down on ‘vaccinate or you don’t get the right to interact freely with your community.’
Ach, Akira @#22
@22. Akira MacKenzie : Yup. Spot on.
Social contract. We live in a society and we agree to not jeopardise others and live by certain reasonable rules like, among others, don’t threaten other peoples lives by being fucking douchebag reality / science deniers.
If someone poses a threat to the rest of us by choosing so poorly that their choice puts the lives of amy other people in danger needlessly then, well, we stop them doing that.
Your freedom to swing your fist in the air / choose to spread virii and other pathogens end at my nose / body.
if your behaviour puts the lives of others in society at risk especially without their consent, well, NO, you do NOT get to get away with that.
Oh and two words here :
Typhoid Mary.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Mallon
You don’t get the freedom to choose which side or the middle of the road you drive on or to be mentally impaired or unlicensed at the wheel of vehicles. You shouldNOT get the choice to ignore epidemiological reality and spead potentially fatal diseases to ohsr who did not choose to risk death by contact with willfully ignorant reality deniers.
PS. I’d give them a choice – get vaccinated or get out and don’t coem back unless you do choose toget vaccinated.
Don’t want the vaccine? Then then you don’t get to live here – find somehwere else to go. That simple.
Exile as an option – voluntary or compulsory – does seem under rated these days. Maybe the ancient Athenians were on to something there?..
I’d even extend that to science deniers and thsoe that lad misinfo / disinfo campaigns generally ideally.
Also, yeah, I’m tired now & yeah, hit submit instead of preview again. Hope y’alll get the gist anyhow.
Being part of a society – and looked after by that – means you don;t always get to be a totally selfish douche who ignores the intrests of everyone else in society and causes them harm or risk of that. Ethics #101 I’d have thought.
@ ^ Fix : lad = spread.
Those that spread misinfo / disinfo knowingly and run campaigns doing such to advance their own intrests at everyone else’s expense and risk.
Yes, denyng reality and lying about it should b considered a crime at leats in some contexts where doing so leads to serious harm and risk of that to everyone else. .
@22 et al: I was certainly in favour of the kind of vaccine mandates implemented during covid — health care, certain other workplaces, etc. And I’d make a point of avoiding the unvaxxed, and maybe tell them why — social penalties are also appropriate. But coerced medical treatment? That’s a bridge too far.
stevewatson @29: Maybe I’m missing something, but how are vaccine mandates (even if only for certain people) not coerced medical treatment? (and absolutely justified coerced treatment, IMO).
Rob, there are examples of people quitting their jobs or being sacked for not vaccinating during the hot phase of COVID.
So that is in the category of pressured, but not coerced.
e.g. https://www.npr.org/2021/10/24/1047947268/covid-vaccine-workers-quitting-getting-fired-mandates
That’s indeed mandated, but not forced. Right?
Forcing would mean something like tying them down and jabbing them against their will.
(Is that what you were missing?)
John, ‘forced’ (in the physical sense of tying down, etc) is not the same as ‘coerced’.
“I will fire you unless you do X” is not forcing by your definition, but it certainly is coercion.
Semantics are my playground, Rob, and I did not provide an idiosyncratic definition.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coercion
One can argue that not all coercion is forcing, but surely all forcing is coercion. Categories.
Right? Physical forcing (vis absoluta) and coercive forcing (vis compulsiva) are both forcing, but what what I quoted @16 is clearly the former.
….and I unfortunately used “coerced”. OK, let’s not get tied up in arguments over definitions: I am in favour of enforcing vaccination through social and employment (including for this purpose, school attendance) penalties, against actually imprisoning people or physically restraining them to administer the shot.
Looks like others have said what I wanted to say to defend my 15 pretty adequately. Ta guys, partic Akira, as usual. I’d force, tie down, whatever, all anti vaxxers. To equate this to forced abortion or eugenics (not here, but seen it by anti-vaxxers) is contemptibly idiotic, the false equivalence does not need explaining.
@stevewatson in particular: When your loved one dies of a preventable plague talk to me then. Or go look at a video of a dying 2 month old whooping cough victim. When that’s your kid, bleat about ‘forced medical interventions’ then. Too emotional, how dare I? Stevor beat me to it, but Typhoid Mary was a literal asymptomatic carrier who refused to get treated. Killed an obvious and countable bunch of people who would otherwise be alive and well. The stereo-type comes from an actual thing that happened. Body. Count. In the millions for COVID, and that was/is the training wheels version of what is inevitably coming.
I feel similarly as I do to anti abortion protestors outside clinics
Protestor: ‘But my freedom of speech is being infringed’
Judge: ‘Yeah dude, that’s what happens when you harass vulnerable young women on what might well be the worst day of their life. Fucking deal with it. Next!’
I lean toward heavy handedness when it comes to vaccine policy. Measles outbreaks are getting ridiculous and at some point can’t we say parents who refuse to vaccinate their own kids are negligent and endangering their lives? Shouldn’t someone step in to protect the kids from parental ignorance?
COVID was pretty bad for older people, but let’s say we get a future influenza, coronavirus, or other pandemic where the pathogen has a 30-50%+ kill rate. There’s a decently effective vaccine developed yet people are spreading lies and refusing to get vaccinated. Should they be forcefully coerced violating their precious rights and body fluids?
@37 Hemidactylus Why wait? They should be forced right now! Because right now they are being wilful petri dishes for pathogens that are mutating, as opposed to dying, as we speak. They are walking death labs. IMO we were lucky that COVID mostly got more transmissible instead of more deadly, No thanks to the religious and the stupid who flouted crowd mandates. First to get the tie down and blow dart treatment for mine.
@36. indianajones : “Protestor: ‘But my freedom of speech is being infringed’
Judge: ‘Yeah dude, that’s what happens when you harass vulnerable young women on what might well be the worst day of their life. Fucking deal with it. Next!’”
Me to the anti-choice protestors: Your freedom to speech is NOT bein infringed – your NOT-a-right to harass and attack others is being prevented. Speak all you like but elsewhere NOT where you are causing problems for others who have their right to peace, security and respect. Oh and stop lying and bullying others.
Also note you have the right to bodily autonomy, everyone does. You get to decide for yourself for your body but you do NOT get to control someone else’s body. What’s so hard to understand about that?
On that bodily autonomy question regarding anti-vaxxers; they have the right to their bodily autonomy but so too does everyone else.
Again, the “right to swing fists in air ending at other people’s noses” principle applies if your choices threaten the bodily autonomy of others, then you don’t get to do that at least not in society.
Choosing not to get vaccinated is like to choosing to drive on the wrong side or right in the middle of the road.
You don’t get to legally do that because it puts the lives of others as well as just yourself at high risk.
So iof you don’t get vaccinated then you face the conseqeucnes which should keep you away form everyone else and prevent you from harming them imfringing ontheir bodiuly autonomy to not get sick potentially fatally. So total physical isolation and social pressure wuld be my suggestion along with education and, well, what they did to Typhoid Mary. Prevntative imprisonment until they decide to dothe right thing. Or exile somewhere else preferably far away from all others until they see reason and agree to respect everyone elses right to not have their live sput at risk by wilful plague carriers by choice.
TLDR; “It’s for the greater good”.
Unapologetic people demanding forced vaccinations are basically
voting for the face-eating leopard partynormalising forced precautionary measures, creating a structural precedent that future governments will use to restrict further personal liberties. Habituation is pernicious.(I could do a reductio but if my point is still opaque, there is not much point)
cf. https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/political-science/articles/10.3389/fpos.2022.929991/full
↓
Becoming authoritarian for the greater good? Authoritarian attitudes in context of the societal crises of COVID-19 and climate change
@ Morales
Histrionic slippery slope argument. Stevo nailed it
Unless you’re going to argue road rules “normalise forced precautionary measures, creating a structural precedent that future governments will use to restrict further personal liberties”, you can consider your argument refuted.
StevoR, “You don’t get the freedom to choose which side or the middle of the road you drive on or to be mentally impaired or unlicensed at the wheel of vehicles.”
Actually, you do. Sure, there are consequences, but you are not physically constrained and forced to drive properly.
Right? Coercion via punishment, but not forcing.
It’s really not that complicated. Concept at hand is physical autonomy.
Punishment for breaching road rules/vaccine rules, one thing.
(Obs, some people don’t get that distinction, but there it is nonetheless)
Vaccination is also one of the areas where liberal and leftist Americans have generally lost their mind and have become mad. Forced vaccination is violation of personal freedom and bodily autonomy. Even coerced vaccination borders on that. Obviously, this is only with respect to the adults.
They might earn a decent buck on the side/main hustle of selling user data to insurance companies.
@40 StevoR
Ising that same argument you could say nobody should be allowed to walk outside at all. Vaccinated or not, you’re a vector for disease.
@erik333 @46 No, And it is obvious why.
@lotharloo @44 Yes, it is ‘violation of personal freedom and bodily autonomy’. I don’t care. So are most crimes taken to their extreme. Stupid driving will get you in jail, too. Lots of things will get you restrained. Forced vaccination is not unprecedented, nor should it be. Ok erik333, I have changed my mind, I’ll indulge you with the obvious. If you don’t take reasonable measures to minimise your vectoricity in the face of known and extreme risk to others under your own steam, then yeah, you don’t get to walk around. Outside, inside or anywhere else. Cos yr a wilful fucking plague rat.
Suppose one has to paint a power pole
Ever done any Occ Health and Safety training erik333? In Australia, one does ones best, by law, to minimise hazards. So, painting a power pole. One of the big metal ones, 66kV or whatever. E.S.I.A.P First option is Elimination. Don’t do the painting at all. If not that then Substitution. Substitute the falling hazard by painting via drone. Isolation. Put a physical barrier between you and the power lines. Administration. Train to know what you are doing, have a spotter to know when you are up, when you come down, and to keep an eye on things and respond if something happens. Personal Protective Equipment. Wear an approved harness and hook it on properly.
Or screw it: Send a kid up there in board shorts with a spray can and hope for the best. That’s the difference. Capiche?
Oops, it’s been a few years for me, I forgot Engineering, between Isolation and Administration. Umm, in this case a safety switch on the power lines so if you do earth them it kills the power in less than a 50th of a second. Not used cos in this case (66kV) you’d be dead anyway, but it’s just an example to demonstrate the wider point.
@indianajones
I have no idea what that deranged drivel that you wrote means. It certainly does not help your case against my argument that Covid made a lot of American liberals lose their fucking mind to think it’s okay for a government to forcefully inject it’s citizens with medications that they don’t want.
@49 It should be ok ‘for a government to forcefully inject it’s citizens’ rather than let them go around endangering others to the point of killing them in some pretty impressively nasty ways. If you disagree, fine. I suggest you do better than calling it deranged drivel or accusing people of losing their minds though.
Or if that’s the bit you didn’t understand, then very very quickly: OH&S legislation says, approximately, that everyone shall take reasonable measures to ensure everyone don’t hurt themselves. The regulations that sit under the legislation and are drafted to give guidance to everyone how to do it say ESIEAP. And if you don’t follow the regulations, that breaches the legislation and bet yr arse that you can go to jail for that and that everyone will be forced to follow rules. I’d treat vaccines the same way. Only instead of jail, it’d be a jab. With a lollipop to follow so as to make you feel better about the lil booboo.
indianajones:
… or to forcefully sterilise them, or to forcefully lobotomise them, or to forcefully inseminate them*.
It is the very justification used for eugenics, you know.
You clearly missed my point about principles, you have gone full utilitarian.
Those are historic examples, for the ‘greater good’, and it is people like you that enable that, by endorsing the practice.
—
* https://www.icc-cpi.int/sites/default/files/RelatedRecords/CR2022_01224.PDF
There’s a lot of nonsense being talked in this thread about “forcefully injecting”, lol.
No. But there is this concept of the “social contract”. Don’t want to vaccinate? Fine. Bye. You don’t get to use public roads, schools, hospitals, police, fire department, currency. These things are for people who sign up to the social contract that you don’t knowingly endanger others.
Don’t like it? Fine. No probs. Fuck off and live in the wilderness. You are not welcome in society.
No one is making you vaccinate. You choose whether you will do the bare minimum to be accepted in society or not.
@Silentbob:
You are another brain dead American leftist. Covid has broken your brain if you think that is a reasonable position.
You also misunderstand the concept of social contract.
In a free society, people are allowed to have wrong opinions, be suspicious of medical companies and so on.
You don’t get to force your way down their throat.
Silentbob isn’t American, they are Aussie.
I’m fine with government having vaccination as a prerequisite for school attendance, traveling internationally, being a member of the military, etc…
I’m not ok with forced vaccinations. Public education is a much better method, as was done with making polio vaccination a public health issue. It would be more effective to enact some criminal penalties for pushing misinformation. Lying that results in dead people shouldn’t be protected by free speech.
There are people who legit cannot get vaccinated. There are others immune compromised. Refusing to be vaccinated throws them under the bus.
I have absolutely no sympathy (zero) for refusers who endanger others. When it comes to a public health situation, especially like measles, where vaccination is key to winning the battle…tie the fuckers down and jab them or use blow darts. I don’t give a fuck about your precious body fluids.
RFK Jr should be in prison yet Fauci gets the shade.
Good grief! Here is another actual historical example.
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_v._Bell)
—
Hemidactylus, you do get those people who wanted that (and other stuff, see above) used the very same rationalisation?
Fuck.
Here is another example, very same thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_for_the_Prevention_of_Hereditarily_Diseased_Offspring
I’m sorry but vaccination and sterilization are different things. Vaccination protects people with immunity disabilities from getting illness imposed on them and being involuntarily checked out of the gene pool by people who refuse to take their disabilities seriously enough to do the right thing. I cannot see the legitimacy of comparing compulsory sterilization and vaccination. Unkindly go fuck yourself John. Go drink raw milk with RFK Jr and the rest of the plague rats.
To compare compulsory vaccination that exempts those who cannot receive vaccination due to some legit medical exemption to eugenic sterilization for some cheap bullshit propaganda point puts you into the lowest of the low. You really stooped to make a point given I know exactly what Buck v Bell was. Fuck you POS!
Note what POS John Morales snipped out from my reply then made some BS point about Buck v Bell:
Only a lowly kind of garbage would ignore that. But we are talking about the obtuse sniper John Morales so I am not completely surprised by this antivax level sneer by him.
Rights vs common good shreds progressive income taxation and a wealth tax just as it makes compulsory vaccination with legit medical exemption likewise evil. One wonders if John Morales would protect techbros from a wealth tax because an illegitimate Buck v Bell analogy also.
@hemidactylus
No. a free and just society cannot force anyone to have a medical procedure. This includes vaccines unfortunately. John is merely taking your argument to its extreme. Forced medical treatments are not within the purview of a democratic society, period.
Wow. Aggressively missing the point about bodily autonomy. Principles.
Perhaps something more elliptical, more allusive, less harsh for the likes of you:
—
Heh. One does, does one? I don’t, and I am one.
Whyever would I do that, and how would I even attempt it?
(Simple, that was; you do amuse when you attempt orotundity, and speak of yourself in the third person)
lotharloo @54
Fuck you. That I cannot even be sure if I have access anymore to a well updated COVID or flu shot in the near future because health policy is being winged by some brain addled fool who promotes steaks, sauerkraut, and cold baths in his jeans drinking raw milk with Kid Rock is an unprecedented problem.
Wrong opinions debilitate or kill others. We have a situation where permissiveness has become the paradigm of choice and long controlled diseases are making a significant comeback. When I entered university in the early 90s I was required to receive another measles shot. I wonder why…
I know exactly why. Do you? Fucking timeline it.
That sort of diligence has been superseded by paranoid delusional narratives about life saving preventative measures.
I guess a virus with a 30-50% kill rate unless one is required to take the effective vaccination is too fascist a scenario to envision. The actual fascists would pretend it didn’t exist and recommend horse paste.
While we’re at it we should dismantle the whole forced to pax taxes scheme.
Funny that Aussies are forced to vote. Get rid of that too.
And definitely think the US 2nd amendment is very important. Good that people can conceal carry, stand their ground, and not get vaccinated. Because god given rights.
@62 John Morales
You are still too disingenuous to acknowledge my saying:
Because that runs counter to the bullshit lying narrative you spun on me. Talk about your Aggressively missing the point. GFY.
Hemidactylus:
Such misunderstanding! Not forced, coerced. You entirely miss the point.
We get fined a token amount for not getting our names crossed off the list.
That is to what it refers. No forcing, rather penalty after the fact.
You don’t want to vote, you pay your fine. No forced voting.
cf. https://findanexpert.unimelb.edu.au/news/5161-why-dick-doodles-on-the-ballot-paper-are-their-own-election-statement
Tethys got it right, I more or less did resort to a reductio, but some minds are well and truly closed.
Hard to credit the obliviousness of some people to the concept of principles, but hey.
Anyway. Basically, if one does not want to vote, one pays the penalty, but is NOT FORCED TO VOTE.
If one wants to speed on the road, one pays their penalty. And that is that.
You are clearly an authoritarian by nature; me, I’m the opposite.
(It’s why my religious and cultural inculcation didn’t take; freethinker, I)
—
Care to try to adumbrate this alleged “bullshit lying narrative”? :)
@ Morales
We’ll just skim over the fact that repeated breaches mean losing your licence and eventually jail time.
So authoritarian!!! *faints*
@ Morales
“Authoritarian” definition:
(https://www.dictionary.com/browse/authoritarian)
What if one favours individual freedom up until the point where it harns others which is obviously the scenario under discussion?
How is that “authoritarian” as opposed to moral? Or are you just talking shit for the sake of trolling?
@Tethys 61 ‘merely taking your argument to its extreme.’
So merely don’t do that then. If regulators can’t tell the difference between a vaccination and a hysterectomy, then I guess we’re in trouble after all. And then expand your idea of what a democracy might be able to include and what other freedoms, among the many it already does, it might be able to slightly curtail.
@Hemidactylus Yup. Just Yup.
@ Forced vs coerced: Oh look another rabbit hole, designed only to eat time by making a pointless distinction between 2 very similar concepts that need not be distinguished for the purposes of the discussion at hand. Imagine that.
indianajones, you are cute.
<snicker>
Yes, let us not actually distinguish between a forceful injection and a punishment for not being injected.
Not at all significant!
Let us not actually distinguish between not allowing you in a social space because you are not vaccinated and being forcefully vaccinated. Etc.
Way to miss the whole point!
Also, way to waste your time; instead of actually assessing the claim, you just said it was a time-waster because YOU saw no significance with the acknowledged distrinction.
This is the claim I critiqued:
Clearly, my #57 is much too abstruse for you. Fair enough, you can’t help that.
Historical examples of just that, applied, they carry no weight for you.
Jocular version, same.
(Ah well. People like you help to make the average, no?)
—
Driving was mentioned, so here is an analogy.
There are laws about not driving drunk, driving in the appropriate lane, etc (cf. my #43).
There are laws about not stealing, not jaywalking, etc.
(perhaps a bit of jocularity? Since you wasted my time with your spurious objection)
So… cars should have AI drive-by-wire systems that would prevent drivers from being in the wrong lane, or speeding, and breath sensors to disable the vehicle if alcohol is detected. Etc.
Well, this thread’s gotten interesting. How about we dissolve the social contract entirely and let everyone endanger everyone else in the name of personal freedom? Anti-vaxxers, don’t bother replying, I’ve learned who to killfile.
Braveheart John @66 says:
“You are clearly an authoritarian by nature; me, I’m the opposite.”
You even posted an article about this but clearly didn’t read it. I had long ago and numerous sources on authoritarianism. I am not an authoritarian by nature (obligate), part of the 30-33% who will vote for a fascist. Mine is quite facultative, instrumental, or narrowly constrained upon one greater good issue that supersedes personal autonomy.
Given I said this: “There are people who legit cannot get vaccinated. There are others immune compromised. Refusing to be vaccinated throws them under the bus.”… I am thinking about the most vulnerable or marginalized in a population who indirectly benefit from others getting vaccinated. Braveheart “Freedumb” John would rather throw them under the bus much as the eugenicists who pushed for Buck v Bell did a century ago. Sink or swim am I right?
Also I made this sort of argument twice on this thread, which was also not acknowledged:
1: “COVID was pretty bad for older people, but let’s say we get a future influenza, coronavirus, or other pandemic where the pathogen has a 30-50%+ kill rate. There’s a decently effective vaccine developed yet people are spreading lies and refusing to get vaccinated. Should they be forcefully coerced violating their precious rights and body fluids?”
2: “I guess a virus with a 30-50% kill rate unless one is required to take the effective vaccination is too fascist a scenario to envision. The actual fascists would pretend it didn’t exist and recommend horse paste.”
Do yeah let’s get hit with a pandemic via a virus having a much larger kill rate that promises to stack the bodies like cordwood and see how many of these principled Braveheart “Freedumb!” screamers like John become facultative authoritarians in that circumstance. The obligate authoritarians will follow dimwitted liars like lemmings and pretend the threat doesn’t exist and/or flout protective measures as is their god-given right and consume horse paste or bleach.